• ℹ️ Heads up...

    This is a popular topic that is fast moving Guest - before posting, please ensure that you check out the first post in the topic for a quick reminder of guidelines, and importantly a summary of the known facts and information so far. Thanks.

WDW Epcot: General Discussion

Three Caballeros is a series of tv screens with Donald Duck and the other Caballeros. There is very little else to it.

Frozen is the most successful animated film of the recent Disney era, so if you're saying it has no place in a Disney park, then you've clearly got little understanding of what the draw of Disney is.
 
Quote me where I say it has no place in a Disney park as a consensus. Did I or did I not suggest they would benefit from establishing a large area for it much like they're doing for Pandora over in Animal Kingdom? That would be much more appealing and allow further room for expansion in the long run rather than sparkling glitter on what some are calling a turd. That's not very magical is it?

Frozen is against everything that Epcot should stand for. The subtle nature of the Three Caballeros is somewhat tolerable, and gives more of a realistic and educational insight into Mexico than the Frozen attraction inevitably will for Norway (which is hardly one to begin with in the first place). I enjoyed World Showcase as it gave a brief and yet pleasant insight into other cultures. I don't want Disney screaming "LOOK AT OUR GREAT FILM SUCCESS" in my face and sacrificing the essence and heart of a segment for it.
 
Got to agree with Tim and Danny.

No-one is ignoring the fact that characters do exist inside the park. However, whilst Nemo and Timon/Pumba do feature they are very much 'narrators' for rides rather than central features. From what I've read this won't be the case with the Frozen ride (I hardly see a musical rendition about oil refinery from Anna and Elsa on the horizon) - it looks more like a dedicated character attraction.

Whats riling most (including myself) is that a dedicated character experience is being placed in the World Showcase of Norway... or should that be Arendelle - a country that doesn't exist. It seems wrong to place a fictional story based in a fictional land in that location. This is clearly at loggerheads to the original concept of World Showcase.

Frozen certainly has a place at WDW - but it seems far more of a Magic Kingdom attraction (at a push Studios) than an EPCOT.
 
Maelstrom was charming but fairly crap. Frozen is based partly off Norse mythology and set in a Nordic setting. Norway itself is one of the smaller areas of the World Showcase.

I really don't see the issue here, obviously the world showcase is meant to be more of a cultural experience than anything else but apart from the absolute purists, nobody really has much of an issue with character meet and greets or any other ways that Disney elements have slowly integrated in the area.

Based on the films setting and theme - the Norway pavilion is really the most ideal place for a dammed Frozen ride (based on current infrastructure and themes)

Epcot started life as something very different to what it is now. It's been adapting and changing for years and will continue to do so. I don't see this as the start of an introduction of rides and films into every area, but I think it will be a nice fit into the area.
 
Danny said:
Quote me where I say it has no place in a Disney park as a consensus. Did I or did I not suggest they would benefit from establishing a large area for it much like they're doing for Pandora over in Animal Kingdom? That would be much more appealing and allow further room for expansion in the long run rather than sparkling glitter on what some are calling a turd. That's not very magical is it?

Frozen is against everything that Epcot should stand for. The subtle nature of the Three Caballeros is somewhat tolerable, and gives more of a realistic and educational insight into Mexico than the Frozen attraction inevitably will for Norway (which is hardly one to begin with in the first place). I enjoyed World Showcase as it gave a brief and yet pleasant insight into other cultures. I don't want Disney screaming "LOOK AT OUR GREAT FILM SUCCESS" in my face and sacrificing the essence and heart of a segment for it.
Click to expand...
Forgive, but saying this is going to be an 'in your face facade' etc etc suggests you (and others) very much hold the concept of a Frozen ride in poor regard, despite not having seen anything of the project at all other than, as Scott says, a ride based on Frozen featuring in the area built up around Frozen - or at least the mythology of Frozen - is based.

Now I know some Merlin ideas get written off before the projects actually come to light, but it is absurd to make assumptions that Disney - the most world-renowned for creating themed experiences - will just 'slap' a facade together when there is absolutely nothing known of the project.

The original idea of Epcot Centre failed, and it has been evolving over the past 20-30 years to try and bring the vision to a wider audience, and if that means diluting some aspects of the cultural showcase then so be it. But just because Universal have built Diagon Alley it does not mean if Disney don't compete directly with that they fail.
 
I don't hold the concept of a Frozen ride in high disregard at all, if anything I can vision Disney doing quite something with it particularly with the potential for an entire land based on it. But I'm not seeing that in simple re theme of a fairly simple attraction.

Disney don't need to compete with Diagon Alley or Universal to succeed, nor were they my exact words. However Universal are only going to grow and grow; their plans up until 2020 show exceptional things coming from them coming straight off the back of a very eventful past four years (I'd say five, but let's skip the tragic elements to HRRR). When it comes to these things however, Disney aren't as concrete as Universal are in a Merlinesque manner, but counter that by taking more time with such projects.

Disney have done well to re-establish the purpose of Epcot to some extent with the refurbishment of Test Track. I'd much rather them continue this theme than feel the need to deviate based on the success of a film and ruin the basic principles of the World Showcase. They're hardly going to dive into the nordic side of Frozen when all everyone wants to see is the princesses. In essence, it'll become a very Frozen Land pushing the whole Norway concept to the side, when in reality, the imagineers have the power and imagination to produce something on an epic scale that will blow children's minds. It really does feel like a lazy idea and that's whats gnawing at me the most.
 
Who actually cares if the Norway area is ravaged by Frozen? Clearly Norway themselves don't given they haven't funded the area for years. At the end of the day, a pitiful boat ride is being replaced by presumably a much bigger, better, more current and more immersive boat ride. Epcot is as it stands by a distance the worst park at WDW, adding an attraction like this will only serve to make it feel more modern, if anything.
 
Disney are trying to rival Potterland with Avatar anyway, not Frozen...

Indeed, the reason why Maelstrom was suddenly spited is because Disney literally didn't expect Frozen to be such a ridiculous hit... They really had to get their skates on to make the most of the film's success, perhaps this is why the choice of Maelstrom feels rushed?

However, to say it goes against the point of Epcot, as mentioned, isn't completely correct, as Epcot has changed a lot from the original community vision... And even World Showcase is a bit out-dated given the way the world is now... It's also clear that visitors were originally disappointed that Epcot lacked actual Disney characters, making it a black sheep in a Disney resort...

Epcot's original vision went as soon as they introduced Mickey & Friends in spacesuits...
 
I think this debate highlights the main problem with Epcot, nobody knows quite what it should be.

Personally I've always thought of it as not a Theme Park but something beyond that. Of course it was original meant to be a place where the line between tourist attraction and real city was blurred but unfortunately Walts death cut that plan off before it was truly worked out. The compromise was the World's Fair design they eventually built which watered down the meaning behind the name but still fit the brief of something more than a Theme Park. But by introducing elements of fantasy the place has lost focus. Frozen is not the start of this, The new Test Track also abandoned real technology for Sci-Fi appeal.
But you know what that's fine if they want to go full Theme Park... only they can't really call the park Epcot any more. Walt Disney World of Adventures might be a more appropriate name ;)
 
Bit off topic from recent discussions, but I just uploaded my piano version of Soarin's theme :)

 
It is a shame Epcot never did get a rollercoaster.

As much as elements of the park are beautiful, ultimately most of the rides just aren't *that* amazing.
 
That looks beautiful, and certainly would have looked amazing if it was ever built. Such a shame :(
 
EPCOT is by far the most difficult park I have ever visited, to describe or analyze.

I went with very little preemption, no more than any other visitor. It just wasn't a park I had Youtubed or read about anywhere. I left feeling really positive about the place, there were some really great concepts - but I also felt a little frustrated at the same time? There is no clear intent or cohesiveness to the place. Magic Kingdom is designed to bring to reality ideas and lands usually confined to storybooks or the big screen - that much is clear. Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom likewise have really clear objectives, and the same can even be said for the water parks. But EPCOT was just so muddled in what it wants to achieve. Is it supposed to be cool and cutting edge? Is it meant to look vintage and outdated and reek of futurism? Is it just a variation on Walt's original community idea? Is it purposefully trying to be cushy and sentimental? It is such a jumble of ideas and concepts thrown together, the place is just so confused with itself.

The park, for me, could really benefit from a rethink. The concept of World Pavilion is fantastic, but it seems so outdated. I want to see India and Russia and Brazil and the UAE and everywhere else that has blossomed since EPCOT was built. I want to go on more rides and explore the countries beyond monotonous shops (albeit they are beautiful and absolutely oozing character). The Future World Section is again, very beautiful, but lacks substance. The Land was all but empty upon my visit; yet Test Track was raking in queues of nearly two hours. I don't know what could be done here, but I think a more definite purpose driving the area together as a unit is paramount.

I am not saying EPCOT doesn't have great rides (not enough, but they are there - Mission: Space, Test Track and Spaceship Earth prove this). My time there was great. Reflections was brilliant, the scenery and attention to detail (particularly in the showcase) is outstanding and the park icon is the best in the world, it's stunning at sunset over the lake. But the park is absolutely begging for a change of tactic. Adding tacky IPs (as popular as it will be) is not the way forwards, either. It is only with a carefully considered, real direction that I feel that this park will achieve its maximum potential.
 
I don't know why but I'd assumed that the new Frozen ride was going to open this year, not 2016! Is there actually anything new (of some significance) in Florida at all this year!?

:)
 
Rob said:
I don't know why but I'd assumed that the new Frozen ride was going to open this year, not 2016! Is there actually anything new (of some significance) in Florida at all this year!?

:)
Click to expand...
It appears to be a pretty hefty makeover. Rumour is that the ride system has been gutted too - as opposed to the simpler overlay/re-theme that was first thought. With that and this new building, 2016 seems like a more realistic plan.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rob
An update on the Frozen attraction at Epcot, which will be called Frozen Ever After:
Screamscape said:
Disney released new details and the name for Epcot's new Frozen themed ride under construction inside the former Maelstrom attraction building. The new ride will be called Frozen Ever After, and like the previous attraction, it will be a slow moving boat ride. From what I’ve been led to understand, the new ride will re-use much of the old flume layout and Maelstrom boats from before. The artwork released seems to show the point in the old ride where the boat would stop in front of the three trolls who would cast a magic spell and make your boat move backwards.
In the Frozen Ever After version it looks like you'll be face to face with Elsa inside her ice castle, as she sings and casts frozen waves of magic in the air all around you. According to the Orlando Sentinel the ride will feature many of the film's classic songs, a finale with fireworks as you are bid farewell by Elsa, Anna, Olaf, Sven and Kristof, and you'll pass by Wandering Oaken's Trading Post in the queue. The ride will also feature a number of cutting edge new animatronics that will feature internal projection based face animations, much like those used on the Seven Dwarfs Mine Train.
Click to expand...

db_2016_FrozenEverAfter11.jpg


I do hope Disney do such a fantastic film justice but I fear they won't. It's understandable that they want to get a Frozen ride sorted at WDW as soon as possible with all the hype but something very special could be achieved with more time.

:)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top