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WDW Epcot: General Discussion

A few thoughts on Epcot:
  • Let's cut to the chase: Epcot is a terrible park. It fails in almost everything it sets out to do, in almost every way. Thematically, it is flawed. The concept doesn't work. The execution is dreadful. Why?
  1. Most of the rides are awful. The Mexican boat ride, Imagination, Snorin', The Seas, Spaceship Earth and Sum of All Thrills are average at best. Mission: SPACE, Living with the Land and Ellen's Energy Adventure are appalling. The latter two should not be operating at a Disney theme park. They are an embarrassment to the company.
  2. Both of the areas suck, in different ways. Future World is utterly soulless - a horrible, barren concrete savannah of bad design and misguided 1980s educational video tedium. It is not a nice place to be in. It is not visually interesting. It is not intellectually stimulating. It's blandness just sprawls like an out-of-town Milton Keynes shopping centre.
  3. I remember loving World Showcase when I was 13, but this time I didn't. Without wanting to come across too Socialist Workers Party, I find the appropriation of other cultures and the dilution of those cultures into pavilions - basically cartoonish parodies of that culture - highly questionable. I don't care when it's the UK or Canada or whatever, but turning Morocco or China into a Mickey Mouse caricature is deeply dodgy.
  • More on World Showcase: I don't mind when Animal Kingdom does the same thing with Africa and Asia because it's so much better done. It's nuanced, it's subtle, it's intelligent and it's well-researched. The country areas at AK show a deep level of understanding, of sensitivity and of respect. As someone who has spent time in rural Thailand and Malaysia, AK's approximation is also pretty accurate. There's no Taj Mahal or Timbuktu at AK. World Showcase is a totally different story. Most countries have a hilariously bad landmark (Eiffel Tower, Hampton Court Palace, Stave Church) that acts like a massive sign saying "LOOK THIS IS FRANCE." Unlike at AK, the areas lack detail (except maybe Morocco) and feel kinda plasticky. No country has enough space to really say or do anything of interest - that's left to the decent enough film shows which range from great (Canada) to good (France) to poor (China). World Showcase is cultural appropriation at its worst, and also, sadly, it seems to bring out a slightly xenophobic side in me when I see overweight Americans in motorised buggies zooming around the park thinking they're getting any sort of 'real' taste of that country. The foreign staff seem faintly embarrassed to be lampooning their own countries so tastelessly.
  • World Showcase is also the only part of any WDW theme park that feels like a rip-off. You pay through the nose for average food and standard-issue European lager (great). The souvenirs are cheap rubbish. The lack of rides means that the entire focus of the area is on spending money. It's very cynical, just like the Harry Potter land at Universal (more on that later). Wallet grab!
  • Snorin' is exciting at first when the vehicles swoop through the air, but quickly becomes dull. It cuts too much. Why isn't it one continuous shot? You also unfortunately fly over Disneyland, which is better than any single park in Florida.
  • Also unfortunately, you never really feel immersed on Borin' because you can see a row of people's feet dangling down into your view, like there's been some sort of mass hanging above you.
  • Spaceship Earth is alright, but not as good as I remember it being. It's a little boring in places, and dingy too. I like the bit where you see the earth suddenly appear at the apex of the dome, but the journey backwards is as dull as ditch water. The scenes on the way up could do with being jazzing up a bit with better animatronics and more dynamic action.
  • Ellen's Energy Adventure is suicidally tedious. I think they should just close it and replace it with nothing. Mothball it. Having it open, even if it soaks up crowds, actively makes people's days worse because they spend a tenth of their time in the park being bored out of their skulls on this time vampire. It has no redeeming features. Disney's number one priority in Florida should be replacing this.
  • Imagination was so average that I can't even remember anything about it.
  • Living With The Land, holy god damn, where to even begin with this? I can't really talk about this ride without resorting to language that would be unacceptable in this medium. It is detestably awful. It is actively unethical that the Disney corporation rob your time in this way, after you've paid so much to get in. It is a gob in the face from the House of Mouse. For what it is, and the company that built it, it's probably the worst ride I've ever been on.
  • The Seas is better than when I last went on it because of the addition of Nemo characters, which mildly liven up this forgettable ride. If they can't replace The Land and Ellen immediately they should do the same thing as soon as possible - chuck as many big characters in as possible to at least make them bearable until something better can be built.
  • Test Track, while not quite as good as it was before it was sexed up, is still a great ride - Epcot's saving grace. It isn't a coaster, but for all intents and purposes it feels like one. What the refurb has added in terms of slickness, it has lost in terms of charm and silliness (fortunately, many Disney rides still have this camp frivolity in abundance, like RnR and Space Mountain). Some of the lighting is really cool (the lighting strike, the EPCOT-esque future city, the neon truck). The ride still gives a great sensation of speed as you hurtle around the outside of the building. It's just a shame that they got rid of the hot, cold and radiation rooms, which were previously a highlight.
  • IllumiNations is a great show, if a little short.
  • Sod World Showcase purists, the Frozen ride will massively improve the park by actually being something that people want to go on. Apart from Test Track, that is a novelty at Epcot. It'll probably double the quality of the park overnight.
 
Savage! I visited Epcot in 2006 so can't remember a huge amount but do remember it feeling a bit flat compared to the other parks, is it really that bad?
 
A few thoughts on Epcot:
  • Let's cut to the chase: Epcot is a terrible park. It fails in almost everything it sets out to do, in almost every way. Thematically, it is flawed. The concept doesn't work. The execution is dreadful. Why?
  1. Most of the rides are awful. The Mexican boat ride, Imagination, Snorin', The Seas, Spaceship Earth and Sum of All Thrills are average at best. Mission: SPACE, Living with the Land and Ellen's Energy Adventure are appalling. The latter two should not be operating at a Disney theme park. They are an embarrassment to the company.
  2. Both of the areas suck, in different ways. Future World is utterly soulless - a horrible, barren concrete savannah of bad design and misguided 1980s educational video tedium. It is not a nice place to be in. It is not visually interesting. It is not intellectually stimulating. It's blandness just sprawls like an out-of-town Milton Keynes shopping centre.
  3. I remember loving World Showcase when I was 13, but this time I didn't. Without wanting to come across too Socialist Workers Party, I find the appropriation of other cultures and the dilution of those cultures into pavilions - basically cartoonish parodies of that culture - highly questionable. I don't care when it's the UK or Canada or whatever, but turning Morocco or China into a Mickey Mouse caricature is deeply dodgy.
  • More on World Showcase: I don't mind when Animal Kingdom does the same thing with Africa and Asia because it's so much better done. It's nuanced, it's subtle, it's intelligent and it's well-researched. The country areas at AK show a deep level of understanding, of sensitivity and of respect. As someone who has spent time in rural Thailand and Malaysia, AK's approximation is also pretty accurate. There's no Taj Mahal or Timbuktu at AK. World Showcase is a totally different story. Most countries have a hilariously bad landmark (Eiffel Tower, Hampton Court Palace, Stave Church) that acts like a massive sign saying "LOOK THIS IS FRANCE." Unlike at AK, the areas lack detail (except maybe Morocco) and feel kinda plasticky. No country has enough space to really say or do anything of interest - that's left to the decent enough film shows which range from great (Canada) to good (France) to poor (China). World Showcase is cultural appropriation at its worst, and also, sadly, it seems to bring out a slightly xenophobic side in me when I see overweight Americans in motorised buggies zooming around the park thinking they're getting any sort of 'real' taste of that country. The foreign staff seem faintly embarrassed to be lampooning their own countries so tastelessly.
  • World Showcase is also the only part of any WDW theme park that feels like a rip-off. You pay through the nose for average food and standard-issue European lager (great). The souvenirs are cheap rubbish. The lack of rides means that the entire focus of the area is on spending money. It's very cynical, just like the Harry Potter land at Universal (more on that later). Wallet grab!
  • Snorin' is exciting at first when the vehicles swoop through the air, but quickly becomes dull. It cuts too much. Why isn't it one continuous shot? You also unfortunately fly over Disneyland, which is better than any single park in Florida.
  • Also unfortunately, you never really feel immersed on Borin' because you can see a row of people's feet dangling down into your view, like there's been some sort of mass hanging above you.
  • Spaceship Earth is alright, but not as good as I remember it being. It's a little boring in places, and dingy too. I like the bit where you see the earth suddenly appear at the apex of the dome, but the journey backwards is as dull as ditch water. The scenes on the way up could do with being jazzing up a bit with better animatronics and more dynamic action.
  • Ellen's Energy Adventure is suicidally tedious. I think they should just close it and replace it with nothing. Mothball it. Having it open, even if it soaks up crowds, actively makes people's days worse because they spend a tenth of their time in the park being bored out of their skulls on this time vampire. It has no redeeming features. Disney's number one priority in Florida should be replacing this.
  • Imagination was so average that I can't even remember anything about it.
  • Living With The Land, holy god damn, where to even begin with this? I can't really talk about this ride without resorting to language that would be unacceptable in this medium. It is detestably awful. It is actively unethical that the Disney corporation rob your time in this way, after you've paid so much to get in. It is a gob in the face from the House of Mouse. For what it is, and the company that built it, it's probably the worst ride I've ever been on.
  • The Seas is better than when I last went on it because of the addition of Nemo characters, which mildly liven up this forgettable ride. If they can't replace The Land and Ellen immediately they should do the same thing as soon as possible - chuck as many big characters in as possible to at least make them bearable until something better can be built.
  • Test Track, while not quite as good as it was before it was sexed up, is still a great ride - Epcot's saving grace. It isn't a coaster, but for all intents and purposes it feels like one. What the refurb has added in terms of slickness, it has lost in terms of charm and silliness (fortunately, many Disney rides still have this camp frivolity in abundance, like RnR and Space Mountain). Some of the lighting is really cool (the lighting strike, the EPCOT-esque future city, the neon truck). The ride still gives a great sensation of speed as you hurtle around the outside of the building. It's just a shame that they got rid of the hot, cold and radiation rooms, which were previously a highlight.
  • IllumiNations is a great show, if a little short.
  • Sod World Showcase purists, the Frozen ride will massively improve the park by actually being something that people want to go on. Apart from Test Track, that is a novelty at Epcot. It'll probably double the quality of the park overnight.

I agree with you on Ellen. But Livin' with the Land is a classic Disney. Yes the dark ride bits need updating, but the greenhouse technology sections are always interesting and is one of the only parts of future world that feels futuristic.

This is the main issue with Epcot, technology has moved faster in the 30 years after the park opened than the 30 years before it. Future World was out of date 10 years after it opened and they have struggled to update it.
World Showcase also suffers due to airfare now being cheap enough that you don't need Epcot to visit countries you can see for real now.
 
I didn't hate it as much as Sam clearly did, but the entirety of future world is a well-intended mess. They've pushed so hard towards the educational aspect and seemingly forgotten to be entertaining. Universe of Energy, Living with the Land and the Seas are just staggeringly tedious. Soarin' isn't a bad ride but falls flat due to carrying the weight of expectation that comes with the 100+ minute queues. Then there's the unspeakably depressing Timon and Pumbaa lecture (which we skipped).

It's all just so bizarre - why is there a ride about the history of communication, and why is that ride called Spaceship Earth? Why is Universe of Energy 40 minutes long? Why is Innoventions even there?

With world showcase you can at least see the point of it, but I still don't feel that they've done a particularly good job of it. It's a really surreal place.
 
Epcot is in a difficult situation. On opening I imagine it worked - whether that was due to it being fresh, or there being a great deal more input from technology companies, or travel to countries such as China / Japan / Norway being more difficult in those days I dont know.

I enjoy Epcot, it feels nostalgic, but a park cannot live on Nostalgia forever. Although I initially disagreed with the 'Frozen' overlay coming to Norway I do wonder whether that would be the way of saving the park to an extent. Add Ratatouille to France (a la Studios in Paris) and other 'integrated rides' may improve the park significantly.

With regards to Future world - I imagine the parks management have a hard decision to make there. The rides - though classic Disney - are dated and less relevant now. I like original concepts but taking an IP (be it Disney - Big Hero 6 could work - or an outside IP) might freshen the park.
 
I am aware that I have not been to either park, but comparing the queue times of the Florida vs California Soarin' rides is an interesting distraction...
 
It's all just so bizarre - why is there a ride about the history of communication, and why is that ride called Spaceship Earth?

I can partially explain that. Back when Epcot centre opened the parks central icon was designed to show human ambition. Going to space was deemed to be the greatest achievement, that and the buildings shape formed Spaceship Earth.

But what drives progress? The answer the Imagineers settled on was communication. Talking leads to writing, leading to the spread of knowledge. The desire to reach others lead from wagons to trains, cars and eventually satellites in space. Not only was it a solid concept but is even more relevant today, Imagineers could never have known the Internet was a about to revolutionise the world.

Sadly the rest of Future World lets it down. Once each pavilion linked Spaceship Earth with Horizons (a similar attraction based on what's to come). They each had a supersized classic Disney dark ride that when visited one after another told a bigger story. Alas half of them have either gone or the original message has been altered.

What Epcot desperately needs is a new design. I'd say scrap the worlds fair formula of big pavilions funded by massive corporations all with their own direction. Have a central vision and let company's sponcer individual attractions where appropriate.
 
I am aware that I have not been to either park, but comparing the queue times of the Florida vs California Soarin' rides is an interesting distraction...

DCA is helped by simply having more attractions people actually want to ride. Many guests skip or don't want to ride a lot at Epcot and many other things just aren't rides. Same goes for Toy Story Amanda at DCA compared to DHS, more attractions at DCA means shorter waits for each of them.
 
Which is why it makes no sense at all to build a third cinema for Snorin' and a third track for TSMM. They may ease capacity slightly, but it will just mean guests spend less time in the parks, rather than enhancing the guest experience. If there are more e-ticket attractions built then guests will spread out between the rides rather than being stuck in the queue for Snorin'
 
Livin' with the Land is a classic Disney.

Really? Three people since my post have referred to the Future World rides as "classic Disney". I find they completely lacks the soul, warmth and entertainment that characterise 'classic Disney' rides. For me, Future World is the very antithesis of what Disney do so well. A rare misstep.

My plan for Epcot would involve slowly demolishing Future World except for Spaceship Earth and Test Track, and replacing it with more country areas like the World Showcase, but bigger and with proper rides and coasters. Change the name of the park to Disney's Worldwide Adventure or something. It'd be vastly better.

The guest figures are enormous but I'd be interested to see the KPIs. I imagine they're a lot lower than for the other parks. The scores for Energy Adventure must be atrocious.
 
Just to point out I said they "had" classic Disney rides, not that they still do. If you ask people that visited when Epcot Centre first opened they go on about the original soul and charm that simply isn't there anymore.
 
I think this is partially due to the arrival of 'corporate Disney'. Epcot has the potential to be a truly outstanding park. Rides were about education first and foremost (think Horizons) which was bulldozed to make way for Mission Space - an intense simulator that does only one thing well, leaving most people walking away associating space travel with nausea.

The issue is Disney can't predict the future. it doesn't take long for rides that the park have invested a ton of money in to become dated and ultimately lose sponsorship (think Horizons ;)).

Disney seems to be all about flogging IPs at the moment. As much as I love the concept of Future World and see so much potential in it - it just isn't viable when you're in the situation you're in now and are potentially faced with extensive costly upgrades to ensure the vision is appropriately conveyed.
 
I enjoyed Epcot, however I accept that there is a problem. This problem ultimately derives, in my opinion, from what they originally tried to do with the park. I think they tried to take Walt's Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow vision and translate it into a theme park rather than a prototype commununity. They took ideas, such as it being a showcase to the world (flipped this around so that instead there was a world showcase) and had a future world where concepts that could exist 'tomorrow' could be seen and guests could learn more about the world we live in. Here was also the tie in with sponsors such as GE. I hope to learn much more about this though in a lovely book I should soon be reading!

This probably wasn't a sustainable long term idea for a theme park, hence the changes that have since occured.

:)
 
Disney have confirmed that Soarin' will be closed from January 4th 2016 until Summer 2016 for its refurbishment work. This allows time for the two existing theatres to be upgraded and the connecting of the new third threatre to the rest of the attraction. Hopefully all of the god awful decor will be changed during this as well!

:)
 
It's now been confirmed that Captain EO will be closing on the 6th December:

CTsn8TOUwAAZXur.jpg

Credit: @marcglorioso

As much as it's only Captain EO, it's another attraction closed - and with Soarin' closing just after Christmas it leaves a fairly large empty hole on that side of the park now.
 
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