WDW Magic Kingdom: General Discussion

[Dave]

Are they though, I feel people go for the experience of disney not the characters, there are people who want to see x person but I feel like they are in the minority and if disney are focusing on just them they will lose.

Why was disney popular 10 years ago before a large amount of the IP intergration? because disney was an amazing experience, with parks themed to one idea, no expense spared. Not because you can see ironman.

This is something universal has learned after their motion simulator era comming out with harry potter, which yes is IP it isn't popular directly off the base IP, it is popular because it is a very unique land something you can not see anywhere in the world, amzingly themed, large details every where you look there is a new detail yes there are photo opps there are also small details everywhere like shop figures moving. you can see this with epic universe an entire land on old movies, these are known in pop culture, but people aren't going to see frankenstein, or the land that connects all the portals people are going for the experience.

if your idea of meeting the characters is addopted, and disney just adds cheap IP then 10 years down the line when that IP is old it needs another $50 milion refresh you can see this with marvel already the IP is getting tired and is not at its peak of 2019.

also six flags has flash batman the joker and more interms of caracters, why don't people flock to them to get pictures with them? because it isn't as good of an experience like people don't pay hundreds per person per day to dee mickey mouse, they go for the atmosphere, the theming, the message etc.

I agree with a lot of what you say but Harry Potter is purely popular based off the IP and pretty much saved the universal parks from going under.

 

[jibbsie]

I agree with a lot of what you say but Harry Potter is purely popular based off the IP and pretty much saved the universal parks from going under.

I would argue against that, it definatly had an impact but how many people would go to universal just because they saw that harry potter is there? not many people are enough of a fan to visit just for harry potter, so there has to be something else and that is something is the reason it is so popular and is because it is a great area with a great experience, every little detail is captured, providing a great themed experience, I am not sure if you have been but it really is amazing and at times it feels like you are in the uk with how well it is done.

to add to this point, there are no meet and greets in the harry potter section, it is just the scenery and some actors about (like the singing toads),

Compare that to toystory land, arguably a similar amount of apeal to fans and the general public (they are both very big movies and both hugh pop culture hits) is there much unique about it? not really it feels like someone just put some fiberglass models arround a sixflags and called it a day, how do we cover a station I know put some cheap covering and paint it to look like a box, is anything imersive about it? this shows with hollywood studios attendance declining after it was opened.

 

[Dave]

I would argue against that, it definatly had an impact but how many people would go to universal just because they saw that harry potter is there? not many people are enough of a fan to visit just for harry potter, so there has to be something else and that is something is the reason it is so popular and is because it is a great area with a great experience, every little detail is captured, providing a great themed experience, I am not sure if you have been but it really is amazing and at times it feels like you are in the uk with how well it is done.

to add to this point, there are no meet and greets in the harry potter section, it is just the scenery and some actors about (like the singing toads),

Compare that to toystory land, arguably a similar amount of apeal to fans and the general public (they are both very big movies and both hugh pop culture hits) is there much unique about it? not really it feels like someone just put some fiberglass models arround a sixflags and called it a day, how do we cover a station I know put some cheap covering and paint it to look like a box, is anything imersive about it? this shows with hollywood studios attendance declining after it was opened.

Yes but the people going mostly don’t know the scenery is so good. They know it’s Harry Potter.

Meet and greets are a small part of the world of IP’s even Disney don’t depend on them.

 

[Ian]

I would argue against that, it definatly had an impact but how many people would go to universal just because they saw that harry potter is there?

I know plenty of none-enthusiasts who go to Florida and have traditionally only visited Disney but now include Universal on a trip specifically because of the appeal of Harry Potter. It would be wrong to say that it isn’t a major driver in people’s decision to visit. For many people Universal Orlando and Harry Potter have become synonymous. I hear plenty of conversations that go along the lines of “We went to Universal.” “Oh, that’s the one with Harry Potter, right?”.

I don’t deny that there are many other great attractions at Universal, but Potter significantly broadened their appeal, elevated their product and made a big statement about the quality of attraction you could get at Universal, all of which ultimately pulled people away from Disney. Excusing Jurassic World, I’d say the Potter investments still stand head and shoulders above many of the other attractions at the park, including those that have come along since the Wizarding World opened in IoA.

I think one of the key differentiators between HP and many of the classic Disney IPs is its appeal to a far broader demographic. Whilst most will have been exposed to Disney at a young age, there’s certainly more of a perception of Disney as “something you grow out of” (with the obvious exceptions here of Star Wars and Marvel, which is why I refer to the “classic” IPs - the original properties that weren’t acquired in recent years). The Potter brand is something I think many more people carry through to their adulthood and can continue to enjoy and appreciate. That plays well into Universal’s generally more “grown up” offering.

 

[Maelstrom]

I am in Orlando at the moment and been at MK today- everyone around me seemed to love Tianna, in fact I thought it was a great upgrade. Also again I know only what I have heard but their has been alot of people talking in queues about all of the new announcements and only heard positive things. Accept a couple worried monsters would replace the Muppets (although that doesn’t bother me as never been a big fan of muppets) . First time for along time not had any kind of fast pass in MK and have done the following between opening and 4pm and that included a walk over to contemporary to each late breakfast/brunch at at steak house 71 -

Space mountain x 2
Big thunder x 2
Tron
Tinana
Severn Dwarfs
People mover
Haunted Mansion
Buzz light year space ranger spin
Pirates

Plus loads of time looking in shops, soaking up the atmosphere etc. could have done lots more if had just been focused on getting on rides.

 

[jibbsie]

I know plenty of none-enthusiasts who go to Florida and have traditionally only visited Disney but now include Universal on a trip specifically because of the appeal of Harry Potter. It would be wrong to say that it isn’t a major driver in people’s decision to visit. For many people Universal Orlando and Harry Potter have become synonymous. I hear plenty of conversations that go along the lines of “We went to Universal.” “Oh, that’s the one with Harry Potter, right?”.

I have no doubt it is known as the harry potter park, but I feel like that was a symptom of the harry potter stuff being so good and that was not my point. It was more that IP's arn't eveything but disney is treating them as so.


For instance pretend you know nothing about universal, and I say there is a Harry Potter land a a theme park, that alone won't convince you to pay a couple of grand to fly to florida to visit them, but if you hear about all the stuff they have in the land, the activites, the rides. The experience and quality of the land will be what sells the tickets and gets repeat customers.

am in Orlando at the moment and been at MK today- everyone around me seemed to love Tianna

It is supposed to be pretty good, i'll give them that. I was more on the IP integration like mickies runaway railway where they just forced it into the park

 

[jon81uk]

how many people would go to universal just because they saw that harry potter is there? not many people are enough of a fan to visit just for harry potter

Lots will. Islands of Adventure attendance skyrocketed the year Hogsmeade opened. Many people had never considered visiting USF until Harry Potter opened and specifically visited only for the Harry Potter themed attractions.

 

[Dave]

Seriously not a single person who isn’t a theme park geek has said “let’s book a trip to Florida, the scenery is so lovely”.

They say “Let’s go to Florida we want to see Mickey Mouse and Harry Potter”.

 

[jibbsie]

Lots will. Islands of Adventure attendance skyrocketed the year Hogsmeade opened. Many people had never considered visiting USF until Harry Potter opened and specifically visited only for the Harry Potter themed attractions.

part of the initial launch can be because of harry potter (although it would be down to many other factors including advertisment (a way of showing the experience, etc)), but the continued attendance is because of the quality of the land, if it was a tea cups ride and a few warehouses no one would have came back, but universal have been able to capture a large part of the market because of the quality and experience, comapare it to galaxies edge quite popular initially but then it has become the quiet part of disney land and there are a huge amount of dedicated starwars fans.

 

[jibbsie]

Seriously not a single person who isn’t a theme park geek has said “let’s book a trip to Florida, the scenery is so lovely”.

They say “Let’s go to Florida we want to see Mickey Mouse and Harry Potter”.

why was disney popular in 2010 or 2015, before a lot of the IP integration, why is animal kingdom so popular (it has very little IP integration), untill recently epcot had no IP (untill frozen, then rattatoui and gardians of the galaxy) why was it the seccond most popular park?

why is sea world popular?

typhoon lagoon and blizard beach has very little IP integration, why do people go?

people go to experience the park, not the IP.

IP can definatly encourage people to go, but if it isn't good then people will say about how much they paid and how meh it was and the crowds will dissapear, when paying that much for an experience you want it to be good, people are not paying upwards of $10,000 for a family holiday to take pictures with micky mouse.

Edit: you could say people are going because of the brand of disney parks being known for good quality, excellen experiences but a lot of this forced IP reduces that quality and can affect the experience.

 

[Tim]

The quality of the product does matter. Yes if the Harry Potter lands had been a Six Flags style IP (big coaster with a few vinal stickers of wizards stuck on it) then it would not have been successful.
However if they had built the land exactly as is but called it "Merlin's Magical Village" instead of Hogsmeade I guaranty it would not have been the runaway success it was. Case in point, that's practically what the Lost Continent was when it first opened!

For an example closer to home, I think it is not unreasonable to say that Europa Park offers a better Theme Park experience than Disneyland Paris. I know non-enthusiasts who have been to both and came away from Europa having a more pleasant experience.
However trying to convince someone who hasn't been to EP to visit there over Disneyland is a really hard sell. And the point that normally looses the decision to EP is "I want to go to Disney because I want to see my favourite character". For some that's a huge selling point, far greater than the quality of the experience.

In summary I absolutely love it when Disney build new concept rides. Mystic Manor is my number 1 bucket list ride. But from a pure business perspective Disney knows that building Cars Land 2 in the Magic Kingdom will bring in more guests than Mystic Manor 2. And with so many IPs in their archive with unused potential I don't see them changing their strategy.

 

[jibbsie]

The quality of the product does matter. Yes if the Harry Potter lands had been a Six Flags style IP (big coaster with a few vinal stickers of wizards stuck on it) then it would not have been successful.
However if they had built the land exactly as is but called it "Merlin's Magical Village" instead of Hogsmeade I guaranty it would not have been the runaway success it was. Case in point, that's practically what the Lost Continent was when it first opened!

As I said the IP helps people do it for the first time, but you also have to remember universal is in orlando, people were going to florida any way to visit disney, spending an extra $100 or so on universal isn't too much and isn't that much of a barrier, they were not spending $10,000+ to visit harry potter land.

but it has also changed perceptions about universal, as they used to have a perception as being much lower than disney, only installling simulators, but that land changed the experience and theming quality to the extent that universals perception has changed quite a bit.

to put it another way IP can help, but the amount of people are willing to spend to see IP is much lower than the cost of a trip to disney, but since they were in disney, it was a small cost to see the harry potter land, then they discovered that they was a similar park to disney, which allows universal to put great experiences in that are less focued on IP since they have that disney like brand (like monsters or the star land in epic universe).

 

[Dave]

As I said the IP helps people do it for the first time, but you also have to remember universal is in orlando, people were going to florida any way to visit disney, spending an extra $100 or so on universal isn't too much and isn't that much of a barrier, they were not spending $10,000+ to visit harry potter land.

but it has also changed perceptions about universal, as they used to have a perception as being much lower than disney, only installling simulators, but that land changed the experience and theming quality to the extent that universals perception has changed quite a bit.

to put it another way IP can help, but the amount of people are willing to spend to see IP is much lower than the cost of a trip to disney, but since they were in disney, it was a small cost to see the harry potter land, then they discovered that they was a similar park to disney, which allows universal to put great experiences in that are less focued on IP since they have that disney like brand (like monsters or the star land in epic universe).

Monsters is based on their IP’s (dark universe is a IP for the studios).

The only part of Epic Universe that isn’t an IP is the hub area.

 

[Plastic Person]

It is supposed to be pretty good, i'll give them that. I was more on the IP integration like mickies runaway railway where they just forced it into the park

Do you really have to 'force' Mickey Mouse into a Disney park? Runaway Railway is a wildly successful addition, probably one of the most original and celebrated Disney rides of the past few decades. It's strength is that it gives the public what they want (the mouse), but is creative and surprising on it's own terms. I'd be delighted to ride more attractions along the same line, especially ahead of Frozen boat rides that simply retell the film's narrative like a floating school report.

Disney parks have always changed with the times, but I do think removing rides like the Liberty Belle is unfortunate, very much a Florida-oriented decision than something that would happen in California. The entire WDW experience is a streamlined wallet-emptying exercise, without any of the space or choice to take anything at a slower pace.

D23 is such a bizarre spectacle, perfectly illustrating the collective madness of Disney fandom. Of all the things announced to probably-maybe-perhaps happen this year, I hope the Villains Land at Magic Kingdom is built.

 

[jibbsie]

Monsters is based on their IP’s (dark universe is a IP for the studios).

The only part of Epic Universe that isn’t an IP is the hub area.

yeah, I meant it interms of an IP that isn't too popular (it is well known but not really popular) people are excited for the land because we have seen the images of foggy forests, burning cafes etc they are looking forward to the park not frankenstein

Do you really have to 'force' Mickey Mouse into a Disney park? Runaway Railway is a wildly successful addition, probably one of the most original and celebrated Disney rides of the past few decades

really?
I know a few people, one lot who went to disney every couple of years since 2011, and they hated it calling it just some projections on a wall and talked about how cheap and lazy it felt.
I also know someone who went for their first time last year, and we talked about hollywood studios and they talked about how good galaxies edge is and compared rise of resistance to how bad mickies and minnies railway is.

by forcing of IP I don't mean they added mickie thus it is bad, IP can be added in really creative and unique ways, but more and more often we are seeing them going that X IP is popular thus we NEED to add it to a park not looking at adding a ride and asking if it can go their, there is a key differnce and this has happened before (e.g honey I srunk the kids). It results in very cheap and forced lands (see avengers campus, you can go to any university and see the same looking buildings) and more and more we have also seen them ruin parts of a park to force X IP in.

what is the differnce between six flags and universal? they both have popular IP in their parks, the experience you don't see people spenging multiple grand on a trip to sixflags.

This video explains the ideas quite well (although it is quite long):

From: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAQb6znMg0Q&t=599s

 

[Dave]

yeah, I meant it interms of an IP that isn't too popular (it is well known but not really popular) people are excited for the land because we have seen the images of foggy forests, burning cafes etc they are looking forward to the park not frankenstein

You keep saying people are excited for the land because of the concept art, no theme park enthusiasts are excited for the land because of those things but most people who will visit universal will never see the concept art or the videos. They will go “ohh the new theme park where you get to go into Mario land and how to train your dragon ride….”

Don’t assume your response to universal press releases is the same for everyone, it isn’t.

 

[jibbsie]

Don’t assume your response to universal press releases is the same for everyone, it isn’t.

but it isn't just me like this, multiple people I know are looking at that stuff.

They will go “ohh the new theme park where you get to go into Mario land and how to train your dragon ride….”

So people will spend $10,000+ to go to a how to train your dragons land just because it is how to train your dragon?

People go because they know it will be unique, and exciting experience with how to train your dragon, it isn't just the IP but as also the branding and quality of the park

 

[Themeparksandy1981]

Universal Studios only opening attraction is ET with some buildings have been reused twice since the original ride/show opened. I do think the original rides/attraction's that Walt Disney was involved in at Disney land is safe at Disney World.

 

[jon81uk]

really?
I know a few people, one lot who went to disney every couple of years since 2011, and they hated it calling it just some projections on a wall and talked about how cheap and lazy it felt.
I also know someone who went for their first time last year, and we talked about hollywood studios and they talked about how good galaxies edge is and compared rise of resistance to how bad mickies and minnies railway is.

So you haven’t even ridden it yourself?

by forcing of IP I don't mean they added mickie thus it is bad, IP can be added in really creative and unique ways, but more and more often we are seeing them going that X IP is popular thus we NEED to add it to a park not looking at adding a ride and asking if it can go their, there is a key differnce and this has happened before (e.g honey I srunk the kids). It results in very cheap and forced lands (see avengers campus, you can go to any university and see the same looking buildings) and more and more we have also seen them ruin parts of a park to force X IP in

I think Runaway Railway is a great example of adding IP in creative ways. They had a building themed to a cinema so they added a ride where a cinema film comes to life. Just so happens that film stars Mickey Mouse.

Cars Rally is also a good example of wanting to expand a western frontier themed area by adding more desert style rockwork and working out creatively how to weave a character in.

what is the differnce between six flags and universal? they both have popular IP in their parks, the experience you don't see people spenging multiple grand on a trip to sixflags.

Because Six Flags slap a superhero on a rollercoaster. Universal make themed real life versions of movie events and locations.

So people will spend $10,000+ to go to a how to train your dragons land just because it is how to train your dragon?

Some might who are big fans. But more will be coming for Mario and Potter. But Paris streets with generic wizard circus wouldn’t have attracted as many people.

 

[Squiggs]

Cars Rally is also a good example of wanting to expand a western frontier themed area by adding more desert style rockwork and working out creatively how to weave a character in.

Except they're not even doing that. The concept for Cars Rally isn't to add more desert style rock work. They've specfically said this won't be set in Radiator Spring, they're instead planning to replace the Rivers of America with a Rocky Mountain style area, complete with snow effects and all.

So essentially adding a new area in the middle of Frontier Land, the Bayou and Liberty Square, which blends in to none of those areas.