WDW Magic Kingdom: General Discussion

[Rob]

As I have said in the Disneyland thread, I don't think that connections to Song of the South is the primary motive for this re-theme, but now is a convenient time to announce the re-themes as it does make Disney look good. If Disney really felt there was an issue with Splash Mountain that needed changing then they wouldn't be leaving it as it is in Japan.

 

[RicketyCricket]

@RicketyCricket

Where have Disney said that the retheme is anything to do with Song of the South?

It is far more likely, as others have stated in this thread, that the ride is being rethemed in order to relate to a popular IP, much like ToT in California was rethemed to Guardians of the Galaxy.

That said, as with ToT, I think it is a great shame. Even if the replacement is good it will be replacing an absolute classic, the best ride at Magic Kingdom for me.

There was a petition signed by over 21,000 people calling for its removal. I'd assume that had something to do with it.

There's no doubt they will absolutely nail the re-theme with the modern day technology at their disposal. It's just a shame they're scrapping both the DL and MK classics. At least with TOT you can still ride the original.

Edit: @Rob the fact that both US parks are rethemeing suggests that it's to do with the current tensions. Japan may as well be on another planet from a PR perspective.

 

[Andrew]

I (amongst others) have always said that the issue with Splash being based on Song of the South is the omission of the racist elements of the film with absolutely no acknowledgement of the controversies of the original film. There wasn’t even a sign detailing the issues of the original film, it was all hushed and glossed over.

Whilst Splash is a memorable ride and one of the icons, I’m looking forward to this retheme because it’ll make it more current and I believe they’ll do it well because they know they’ll have to

 

[Dave]

I (amongst others) have always said that the issue with Splash being based on Song of the South is the omission of the racist elements of the film with absolutely no acknowledgement of the controversies of the original film. There wasn’t even a sign detailing the issues of the original film, it was all hushed and glossed over.

Whilst Splash is a memorable ride and one of the icons, I’m looking forward to this retheme because it’ll make it more current and I believe they’ll do it well because they know they’ll have to

It’s hardly a deliberate omission. The ride is based on Brier Rabbit and that character wasn’t linked into the racist aspects of the film in any way.

 

[jon81uk]

I (amongst others) have always said that the issue with Splash being based on Song of the South is the omission of the racist elements of the film with absolutely no acknowledgement of the controversies of the original film. There wasn’t even a sign detailing the issues of the original film, it was all hushed and glossed over.

Whilst Splash is a memorable ride and one of the icons, I’m looking forward to this retheme because it’ll make it more current and I believe they’ll do it well because they know they’ll have to

But you could also ignore the film and state that the ride is based on the fable of Brer Rabbit, same as many other rides are based off fairy stories and folk stories. As there is no reference to the framing device of the film, only the fable depicted in the animated parts.

There is also the argument that Disney are replacing a ride based on a folk story originally told by Africans (but then recorded into print by a white man), which a ride based on a European fairy story that Disney set in New Orleans.

I think although the timing is good for the race movement and the petition, as others have said this may also just be Disney looking for a "cheap" way to update the ride to a new IP.

 

[AT86]

The re-theme has apparently been in development for over a year now, and former Imagineer and original Splash Mountain designer Tony Baxter is returning to work on this project.

Apparently Splash Mountain will reopen in its current form when Magic Kingdom opens in July and will close for this retheme at some point in the future.

 

[Tim]

The difference between this re-theme and ToT is that Princess and the Frog is not a current IP like Guardians is. The film came out over 10 years ago.

So I think it's fair to say this re-theme is half due to Songs of the South reputation and the slowly growing popularity of Princess and the Frog. Remember that the film wasn't a success (by Disney's standards) on release, and combined with the sucess of Tangled was the reason Disney stopped all 2D animation production.
All of a sudden Princes and the Frog is getting a ride, and it's a major headliner at that! Tangled only got a themed toilet block so clearly there's more to this re-theme than the popularity of the film.

But whatever the reason I do think this was a good choice for a re-theme so I'm happy it's happening.

 

[AT86]

The difference between this re-theme and ToT is that Princess and the Frog is not a current IP like Guardians is. The film came out over 10 years ago.

Totally take your point, but using an ‘old’ IP isn’t that unusual for Disney. Ratatouille was released in 2007, so it was 7 years old before the Paris ride opened and will be at least 13 years old before the Epcot version opens. They just take bloomin’ ages to install attractions.

 

[Tim]

Totally take your point, but using an ‘old’ IP isn’t that unusual for Disney. Ratatouille was released in 2007, so it was 7 years old before the Paris ride opened and will be at least 13 years old before the Epcot version opens. They just take bloomin’ ages to install attractions.

True. Song of the South wasn't new either when they originally built the ride.
But Disney do have good reasons for bringing back old IPs, for example:
Ratatouille - has 2 reasons. A) Pixar had just been bought by Disney which removed a lot of the red tape. B) they wanted a French IP to boost attendance at WDS. The Epcot version is a clone which is cheaper than a new ride.
Tron - was green lit when the new film was released and Disney hoped to reboot the franchise. It failed but the ride was very popular.

But you raise a good point Princess and the Frog is far from the oldest IP they've used. It is however one of the least financially sucessful films they've suddenly decided need a ride. I don't doubt it's been in development for a year but I think the project was started as a way to re-work Splash Mountain rather than because they were desperate for that IP.

 

[Boothy]

I'm only gutted as we are due to visit WDW in November 2021 (hopefully, covid and trump permitting) - and I dont think this will be a quick job to refurb and so expect it to be closed when we visit.

I agree with the retheme, it was needed, FWIW.

 

[siralgenon]

Slightly off topic but why are Brer Fox and Brer Bear trying to capture Brer Rabbit on Splash Mountain? Like what are they after?

 

[jon81uk]

Slightly off topic but why are Brer Fox and Brer Bear trying to capture Brer Rabbit on Splash Mountain? Like what are they after?

Isn’t it just the circle of life and prey/victim that foxes eat rabbits? I just assumed the fox wants to eat the rabbit, similar to Wile E Coyote wanting to eat Road Runner.

but in terms of the fables you can find some info about the Laughing Place and the Briar Patch on wiki and elsewhere
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Laughing_Place
[URL]https://i.fluther.com/73358/what-does-the-expression-dont-throw-me-in-the-briar-patch/


[/URL]
There is also a fantastic article about Splash Mountain at Yesterland
https://www.yesterland.com/splashtheme.html

 

[Sam]

I find it very funny how discussions of Splash Mountain never mention the ride's inexplicable focus on the bear character's Big Juicy Ass™

 

[Themeparksandy1981]

I also think it’s down to cost as it’s a lot cheaper and quicker to re theme a current ride. Disney drew all there bears with big asses as they thought what they would look like if they walked on 2 feet all the time.
It's gonna use the same technology that's used in the frozen attraction. Can see this closing in September and reopening in Summer 2022 unless they put a lot more staff working on this then they could get it open for Oct 2021

 

[Benjsh]

The ride won't be changing. The themeing will be changed into a far more popular and well known film and obviously without the slave connections. I'm failing to see the downside.

I really don't see what the issue is with Disney fan boys. They never want anything to change which is really annoying to me. It's the stubbornness like this that holds back Disney at times and sees Universal closing the gap more and more each year. Thankfully Disney Co have moved with the times.

The Princess and the Frog is a fantastic Disney film with some brilliant characters. I think it will only improve the attraction personally.

Epcot is another example of where they have started to move with the times. I like Epcot the way it is however I know many people who have been to Florida and thought it was the weakest Disney Park and a bit boring.

Chnage can be a good thing. A lot of people like the Guardians retheme of TOT too. The twighlight Zone is probably an IP most of the world are pretty unfamiliar with these days. That's how old it is. I know they remade it recently but it didn't do that well did it? Nobody talked about it in my social circles that's for sure.

 

[Dave]

The ride won't be changing. The themeing will be changed into a far more popular and well known film and obviously without the slave connections. I'm failing to see the downside.

I really don't see what the issue is with Disney fan boys. They never want anything to change which is really annoying to me. It's the stubbornness like this that holds back Disney at times and sees Universal closing the gap more and more each year. Thankfully Disney Co have moved with the times.

The Princess and the Frog is a fantastic Disney film with some brilliant characters. I think it will only improve the attraction personally.

Epcot is another example of where they have started to move with the times. I like Epcot the way it is however I know many people who have been to Florida and thought it was the weakest Disney Park and a bit boring.

Chnage can be a good thing. A lot of people like the Guardians retheme of TOT too. The twighlight Zone is probably an IP most of the world are pretty unfamiliar with these days. That's how old it is. I know they remade it recently but it didn't do that well did it? Nobody talked about it in my social circles that's for sure.

1) I’m not a Disney fan boy and I will miss the current theme.

2) Disney used to keep adding new attractions, I think a Princess and the Frog ride is a great idea but not necessarily by destroying what is still a very popular theme park attraction.

3) Universal haven’t really “closed the gap” pre-potter they where close to bankrupting the parks. They have become a stable attraction with good revenue but that’s about it. In fact I would say Universal is the more unimaginative of the two, particularly in the Studios.

4) I agree on Epcot, so long as they maintain the nice atmosphere of world showcase I don’t mind if there are rides tucked in behind the pavilions.

 

[Benjsh]

Why will you miss the theme? It's not overly amazing theme and is based on a film about slavery. And worse still the slave in the film enjoys being a slave. It's a horrid theme but a fantastic water ride. Princess and the frog retheme will greatly improve it.

Can already imagine a scene with the shadow man. It will be fantastic.

 

[Dave]

Why will you miss the theme? It's not overly amazing theme and is based on a film about slavery. And worse still the slave in the film enjoys being a slave. It's a horrid theme but a fantastic water ride. Princess and the frog retheme will greatly improve it.

Can already imagine a scene with the shadow man. It will be fantastic.

Songs of the south isn’t a linear film and Brier Rabbit isn’t directly linked to the story of slavery. The live action parts of the film are nothing that should be exemplified and to be fair to Disney it’s long since been pulled into obscurity.

I like the history of the ride and it’s theme (best example of recycling in a theme park ever). It’s also I think because no one knows the songs of the south film, the ride feels like a theme park original (in a similar way Pirates was) rather than one of the more obvious IP attractions.

I think every ride having a modern IP with slick animatronics and projection mapping takes away some of the charm in the parks, you can’t stand still but you also don’t want to lose the parks soul. That said I’m sure whatever they do with the new IP will look amazing.

 

[Benjsh]

Songs of the south isn’t a linear film and Brier Rabbit isn’t directly linked to the story of slavery. The live action parts of the film are nothing that should be exemplified and to be fair to Disney it’s long since been pulled into obscurity.

I like the history of the ride and it’s theme (best example of recycling in a theme park ever). It’s also I think because no one knows the songs of the south film, the ride feels like a theme park original (in a similar way Pirates was) rather than one of the more obvious IP attractions.

I think every ride having a modern IP with slick animatronics and projection mapping takes away some of the charm in the parks, you can’t stand still but you also don’t want to lose the parks soul. That said I’m sure whatever they do with the new IP will look amazing.

It's a bit of an insult to black people though. That alone is more than enough reason to change it.

And it will be fantastic no doubt. The popularity of the two films isn't even comparable and the ride hardware or layout won't be changing I wouldn't think.

It will be a huge upgrade. People get way too over sentimental with Disney attractions like I said.

 

[Dave]

It's a bit of an insult to black people though. That alone is more than enough reason to change it.

It will be a huge upgrade. People get way too over sentimental with Disney attractions like I said.

I wouldn’t profess to state what is insulting to black people, but as has been mentioned a lot the Brier Rabbit character is not related to the slave narrative in Songs of the South. I suppose as a gay man I’m not offended by old film depictions of homosexuality which are often incredibly insulting unless that’s the entirety of the film, but offence is very personal.

You really though need to stop telling people who have taken time to explain their dislike of the change that they are “sentimental” or “overly sensitive”, “fanboy” is also derogatory to someone in their mid-30’s.

as I say what offends is very personal.