Blackpool Pleasure Beach: Icon - 2018 Mack Double Launch Coaster

[Matt.GC]

I'll be riding again tomorrow for second judgment but I really liked it when I rode a few weeks ago, despite the slow starts to the day and the meandering at the end.

BPB's biggest problem with ICON is that, despite its namesake, it isn't iconic! That's one of the main reasons no one seems to know that the park have a decent brand new coaster and why those that do know simply don't care.

 

[Ash84]

This thread is total madness.

Is that because some people actually think I may have a point?

 

[Rick]

Is that because some people actually think I may have a point?

No, it's because you tell us why you think you have a point and people respond telling you why they think you don't and that loop goes on forever, like the Tom Sawyer Rafts.

 

[Ash84]

No, it's because you tell us why you think you have a point and people respond telling you why they think you don't and that loop goes on forever, like the Tom Sawyer Rafts.

Firstly, the subject keeps coming back to the fact that BPB is quite, or at least not significantly busier than last year or the year before, despite glorious weather, bank holiday weekends and the installation of a brand new, significant, and great coaster. Each and every time anyone asks the question that will be my answer. I suggest you deal with that.

At no point has anyone said why I don't have a point. What has happened is people have thrown pretty bland remarks into the mix along the lines of 'they must know best......' well does that mean Tower's know best? Based on this year I am not sure they do.

Anyone, regardless of what you do in life should embrace feedback, you learn nothing about yourself or your business if everyone acts like happy clapping seals, blowing smoke up your backside, telling you how marvellous you or your organisation is. The only thing you can improve on is constructive criticism. A statement was made earlier that pretty much suggested I wouldn't know the old system would work. For a start, I didn't say it would, I want the current system keeping, just a slight reduction in prices, I backed that up with factual workings out to highlight just how much the rides USED to take. If even a couple of hundred (and I think it would be a lot more once word go out) were to use the PPR system in the afternoon and evening I think BPB would be looking at some very reasonable returns.

Now, let's see the counter-argument and I will gladly debate them, but all I have seen so far is snide remarks about the topic being somewhat pointless, meanwhile the pier takes custom that would otherwise be heading to BPB.

 

[MakoMania]

The thing is, by having such high PPR prices BPB are clearly encouraging advance online bookings for wristbands, which allows them to pre-allocate staffing (thus giving them greater cost control) and gives them a guaranteed source of revenue regardless of weather. Things like this are very hard to place a value on unless you have insider information and statistics, which is presumably why BPB feel like their current strategy is the best one.

 

[Ash84]

And that is the most logical answer I have seen tonight, and I can see the sense in it.

I just think BPB are massively under estimating how many people simply don't want a wristband. You could offer free wristbands on the provision that you remain in the park till closing time and some would say no thank you. It really is a fantastic deal for the majority who want it, but it's a kick in the balls for the minority who don't. The problem is that minority it's a 5% minority, I'd guess it's a lot nearer to a 60/40 split.

Now if they had let's say 10,000 wristband sales (as they sometimes do) on top of another 4000 people using the PPR system that surly has to be better than 10,000 wristband's and maybe 50 people who use the system at present? That has to result in more money in the till?

 

[Dipper_Dave]

The thing is, by having such high PPR prices BPB are clearly encouraging advance online bookings for wristbands, which allows them to pre-allocate staffing (thus giving them greater cost control) and gives them a guaranteed source of revenue regardless of weather.

This may well be the case, but what about holiday makers in peak times such as school holidays and illuminations, who happen to be in Blackpool yet have NOT booked wristbands in advance online?

I think part of the point being made is that during such times when Blackpool is packed, they are getting very little walk-up trade, whilst money is thrown at the piers, food stalls, etc along the prom.

What some people seem to forget is that Blackpool is a tourist destination. Who is going to be in the general vicinity of AT or Thorpe and decide to pop in for an hour or two? Nobody. These are full day theme parks for that reason. Whatever you happen to think of Blackpool as a town, at certain times of year the place is rammed, yet BPB make it too expensive for people to just go in and have a few rides (remember too that once they’re in, they’re likely to spend on F&B too) and shut up shop early when other attractions are still open for hours afterwards.

In all fairness I do praise them for giving the option of an evening wristband on the 10pm closes, reminds me of great times I had at Morecambe’s Frontierland on an evening pass, repeat riding Texas Tornado (Cyclone) coaster & Log Flume

 

[pj]

Does Icon have led lights in the track like Slinky Dog in the new Toy Story Land at Disney? Thought it made it look amazing.


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[Benzin]

They can (apparently) barely afford to run the lights on the train, do you think they could afford lights in the track?

Either way, it wouldn't be worth the time and money for the 5 days of the year Blackpool is open when dark...

 

[Ash84]

In all fairness I do praise them for giving the option of an evening wristband on the 10pm closes, reminds me of great times I had at Morecambe’s Frontierland on an evening pass, repeat riding Texas Tornado (Cyclone) coaster & Log Flume

That was until the recent demise of the Wild Mouse my number one missed coaster. I only went to Frontierland once, I was probably around 13-14, I too got an evening pass for a fiver I believe (my mum and dad went to see what was happening in Morecambe itself) and I hammered the Tornado all night. It was on a 2 train service, one forwards and one reversed. The parks lights came on about 5 minutes before ride close and the Tornado ops had the cheek to shut a few minutes early, so I legged it over to the Mine Train for a go. Whilst I had a great night, I do regret not exploring the park a but more, but I wasn't to know it was going to be the parks final year.

I do remember the drive back to Blackpool though, coming down the M55 at around 10.30 and seeing BPB still lit up, it was great, I miss those times so badly.

Anyway enough of this waffle, I'd like to ask @Rick and @MakoMania how they would feel about the following scenario (and anyone else who doesn't like my idea)

BPB have in place an all you can eat/drink deal. So let's say they hick up the prices of hot dogs to £12 each, bottles of Pepsi to a tenner, portions of fries to £8 and a burger to £7....unless you want onions in which case it's a rennes too. All done as an attempt to 'force' or should that be, demonstrate the value of the all you can eat pass, your thoughts guys?

 

[Lurker]

Parks making single bottles of drink unreasonably expensive to try and encourage people to choose the unlimited fountain drink, it's unthinkable!

Alton towers : bottle of coke £2.50 or unlimited drinks for £8 (i think?).

Not quite as extreme, but definitely a thing that they do. (I mean it is double the price it should be for a single bottle).

 

[Plastic Person]

I do remember the drive back to Blackpool though, coming down the M55 at around 10.30 and seeing BPB still lit up, it was great, I miss those times so badly.

To a lesser degree, so do I. However, I feel this very specific nostalgia is the motivation for your arguments here, and I think it's best to accept that those days of BPB are gone.

 

[Ash84]

To a lesser degree, so do I. However, I feel this very specific nostalgia is the motivation for your arguments here, and I think it's best to accept that those days of BPB are gone.

No, my argument is about money. A park that has seen little investment in hardware aimed at thrill seekers for almost 2 decades has now unleashed one of the the countries best steel coasters, yet the park seems only marginally busier if at all.

 

[Rick]

Now, let's see the counter-argument and I will gladly debate them, but all I have seen so far is snide remarks about the topic being somewhat pointless, meanwhile the pier takes custom that would otherwise be heading to BPB.

We've already done that. I've posted the argument and you have responded to it, the only conclusion being that we don't agree.

BPB have in place an all you can eat/drink deal. So let's say they hick up the prices of hot dogs to £12 each, bottles of Pepsi to a tenner, portions of fries to £8 and a burger to £7....unless you want onions in which case it's a rennes too. All done as an attempt to 'force' or should that be, demonstrate the value of the all you can eat pass, your thoughts guys?

It's an interesting comparison, but I don't think it works. Largely for two reasons:

1. If you're in Blackpool and you want to ride a large selection of rides or coasters of a certain magnitude the Pleasure Beach is the only game in town and rides are of course the core product at the park.
2. If you want to eat, that marketplace is a little different. The park is one of a number of operations - within five minutes walk you have access to a McDonalds, JDW's Velvet Coaster, Pablo's and a number of other options on the front of varying cuisines (and quality!).

Furthermore, you can't look at the park in a vacuum. If you compare the walk up price at the Pleasure Beach vs. Alton or the other Merlin parks, it's fairly robust - the online price too.

With food, people have a perception of how much a portion of fries costs in the outside world. The all you can eat proposition is not designed to have universal take up because its desired audience have already dropped ~£27 on a wristband, therefore to try and force it upon guests would be insane - your per cap would drop through the floor because people wouldn't eat, or would eat elsewhere.

Importantly, rides largely have a fixed cost base irrespective of the number of riders (made only slightly different by running more or less trains + associated staff) - one of the biggest challenges in the industry.

There is no additional cost associated with selling someone a wristband - food doesn't work the same way, there are lots of costs associated with the ordering & buying the raw materials, delivery, refrigeration, cooking and serving of the finished product.

For me, all you can eat is an insane proposition at a theme park. I'd be interested to know what the take up rate for it is - must be fairly low (I'll straw poll my Pleasure Beach folks). All you can ride (a wristband) has take up in the high 90s - so you don't want to mess with that.

Looking forward to the discussion and debate.

 

[shakey]

If you compare the walk up price at the Pleasure Beach vs. Alton or the other Merlin parks, it's fairly robust.

No it isn't.

BPB £39
AT £27.50 (because everyone knows that half price vouchers are readily available. Nobody pays £55)



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[Rick]

No it isn't.

BPB £39
AT £27.50 (because everyone knows that half price vouchers are readily available. Nobody pays £55)

The queue to convert those suckers into Season Passes this morning suggests a lot of people are - which changes the metric, I agree.

 

[MiserableMonkey]

No it isn't.

BPB £39
AT £27.50 (because everyone knows that half price vouchers are readily available. Nobody pays £55)

That simply isn't true, I'm afraid. The majority of entries are indeed a mixture of discounted cash/card transactions and online bookings, but there are many idiots who do pay full price to enter. And this observation was before the big push on season pass conversions.

The most ludicrous was a man who paid £240 approx for him and his family to enter Thorpe Park for around 2hrs.

 

[John]

A few thoughts on the park's active push against PPR:

* Back in the 90s, when wow weekends meant all rides 50p, you could barely walk from one ride to another - in February when Blackpool itself isn't busy. Queues are still long in wow weekends now, mainly because of rides running 1 train.

* Currently, wow weekends offer no reduction in PPR prices, only the wristband. This pretty much sums up the park's mindset regarding pricing, though I'd argue that people are probably paying more (on average) with slightly cheaper wristbands than very cheap ride prices, unless you charged at least £2 per ride or so.

* Economics of PPR aren't as great now as they were, tighter H&S policies mean throughputs aren't going to go back to 90s levels even if the park was 100% PPR. I can't see PMBO or avalanche running 3 trains whatever happens.

* Even if rides were cheaper, they're probably still losing a lot of potential custom simply through having an entry fee, people just don't set foot in the park in the first place. It would be interesting to see whether going back to free entry but keeping the current security arrangement would make a difference in that regard - would the loss of revenue from entry tickets be offset by increased sales? Would there be more troublemakers who are currently deterred by the idea of paying £6 before getting in?

* I'm not convinced by the argument that they know exactly what the best pricing structure is and that they're applying it. Family run business can be extremely stubborn (good luck to anyone trying to stand up to Mandy!).

On an almost entirely unrelated note - does anyone know how much rides cost at the time wristbands were first introduced? I'd be interested to try and get a ball-park figure of how much they'd be charging for rides now if PPR was still the main payment option rather than a "if you're not here all day we don't care about you" price. I can't imagine the headline rides being any cheaper than £5 even if tickets were the only option, with family rides at around £3.

 

[Alastair]

They can (apparently) barely afford to run the lights on the train, do you think they could afford lights in the track?

Either way, it wouldn't be worth the time and money for the 5 days of the year Blackpool is open when dark...

They can't afford to run a few LED's on the train? Christ, the financial situation at BPB must be abysmal.

 

[shakey]

That simply isn't true, I'm afraid. The majority of entries are indeed a mixture of discounted cash/card transactions and online bookings, but there are many idiots who do pay full price to enter. And this observation was before the big push on season pass conversions.

The most ludicrous was a man who paid £240 approx for him and his family to enter Thorpe Park for around 2hrs.

Ok. Hardly anyone pays £55 then (unless they are getting the AT season pass). The point is that a gate price of £27.50 is readily available at AT whereas you cannot pay less than £39 on the gate at PB unless they happen to make a last minute decision to reduce afternoon wristbands.

AT is in the middle of nowhere with nothing else nearby. It has a complete captive audience and people come to AT for the day and generally will plan the visit in advance.

BPB is in the middle of a seaside resort which attracts 10s of millions of people each year. It is surrounded by loads of other attractions within walking distance. And It has a coaster which can be seen from miles around.

Logically which park do you think should have the lower gate price?





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