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WDW Magic Kingdom: General Discussion

jon81uk said:
This reminds me of the Black Hole coaster at Alton Towers. Originally there were no restraints, no lap bar at all. But on the lift hill, there were stairs on the right side and nothing on the left. If the train stopped on the lift hill and guests got out in the dark on the wrong side, they would have fallen to death/injury. So the restraint was added so that guests couldn't get up until staff attended.
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It's amazing we didn't get more tragic accidents back in the day as Health n Safety was much inferior than it is these days. Then again i think people had more common sense and behaved better overall.
 
Changing the theme to Splash Mountain is part of the game of tedious virtue signally that companies and internet posters like to indulge in. Best to leave them to it as they don't respond to any logic or arguments they just want to shout "racist" at people to make themselves look superior. The ride opened in the late 80s and Song of the South was mostly removed from circulation by that point yet Disney didn't see the cartoon element as offensive back then. Its believed to be more "profitable" to make such statements now by showing your "woke" creed by getting rid of things. I suppose it give people on the internet the chance to feel good about themselves by shouting down other so there is that.
 
Orange Ribena said:
Changing the theme to Splash Mountain is part of the game of tedious virtue signally that companies and internet posters like to indulge in. Best to leave them to it as they don't respond to any logic or arguments they just want to shout "racist" at people to make themselves look superior. The ride opened in the late 80s and Song of the South was mostly removed from circulation by that point yet Disney didn't see the cartoon element as offensive back then. Its believed to be more "profitable" to make such statements now by showing your "woke" creed by getting rid of things. I suppose it give people on the internet the chance to feel good about themselves by shouting down other so there is that.
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But you're immediately assuming the re-imagining of the attraction won't improve it. You have no idea whether it will or won't. Most people who ride that attraction have no connection with those characters. However Princess and the Frog is a much better known and loved story and film.

And the ride isn't changing as far as we know. The thrill factor will be exactly the same. It's just the theming.
 
There's no doubt that corporate virtue signalling is a cynical phenomenon, but equally, times change and context is reevaluated. More cynical is the assumption that everyone is "woke" only in order to shout down people, although I'll acknowledge the currency in that, too. Disney didn't see the cartoon element of Song of The South as offensive in the late eighties, because we didn't think about the legacy of slavery and it's representations in the same way as we do now. I love Splash Mountain and will always have my memories of it, but I've made my peace with the decision, and I think Disney will do something special with this for a new generation. Or, to put it another way, life's just too short.

This is one of a few recently dormant topics you've kicked off in order to exclusively express your distaste with the current socio-political climate @Orange Ribena , so could it perhaps be argued that you're in fact the 'triggered' one?
 
Benjsh said:
But you're immediately assuming the re-imagining of the attraction won't improve it. You have no idea whether it will or won't. Most people who ride that attraction have no connection with those characters. However Princess and the Frog is a much better known and loved story and film.

And the ride isn't changing as far as we know. The thrill factor will be exactly the same. It's just the theming.
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My problem is that I have no faith in current Disney to do a good job, they are trying to cut costs and penny-pinch wherever possible, we almost certainly will end up with an inferior overall attraction.
Also the theme doesn't suit the ride, PatF would make a great standard boat ride through the bayou, but New Orleans is flat, there are no mountains so having a drop doesn't make a lot of sense thematically.
 
jon81uk said:
My problem is that I have no faith in current Disney to do a good job, they are trying to cut costs and penny-pinch wherever possible, we almost certainly will end up with an inferior overall attraction.
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I do have some concerns in this regard. Even if the re-theme is arguably arriving at the right time on a broader level, they might well fudge it financially. But, here's another way to think about it; imagine the PR disaster if Disney do this badly? I dread to imagine.
 
It ultimately doesn't really matter what enthusiasts think. Disney think about the GP and $$$$'s and they will no doubt love the ride and could care less about whether or not is geographically accurate.

Also......I'd rather it being based on a much better loved story that doesn't glamorise the slave trade personally.
 
jon81uk said:
My problem is that I have no faith in current Disney to do a good job, they are trying to cut costs and penny-pinch wherever possible, we almost certainly will end up with an inferior overall attraction.
Also the theme doesn't suit the ride, PatF would make a great standard boat ride through the bayou, but New Orleans is flat, there are no mountains so having a drop doesn't make a lot of sense thematically.
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Have you seen some of what Disney has pulled off recently? I’m not Disney’s biggest super fan by any means, but some of their recent stuff has been fantastic, in my opinion! Things like Frozen Ever After (a comparable boat ride redo), Pandora and Galaxy’s Edge (haven’t seen it for myself, but looks brilliant in pictures) certainly don’t strike me as places where Disney have cut back immensely, and some of the modern technology they have at their disposal (e.g. the new Audio-Animatronics) could really improve the ride experience, in my opinion!

But if you have seen any of these and don’t like them, then fair enough!

I can understand concerns about this retheme, seeing as it’s such an iconic ride, but I have faith that Disney will do a fantastic job. As much as I liked Splash Mountain when I rode for the first time last April, the retheme was definitely needed in order to move with the times, in my opinion; no matter how tenuous the links to Song of the South may be, they are still there, and I cannot imagine how that might make any black visitors to Walt Disney World feel, seeing those beliefs being represented at a major theme park in 2020.

Even away from the diversity standpoint, Princess and the Frog will likely prove very popular with the Magic Kingdom’s audience of young families, so it’s a win for Disney in that regard.
 
Most Disney fans are not big fans of change. I'm a huge disney fan and I welcome it.

Take the TOT for example. A much loved ride all over the world and one of my favs too. However when they announced that Californian one was being re-themed it was pure meltdown time. The twilight zone is an IP that's about 50 years old. I know they remade it not too long ago but it wasn't a huge success at all. Nobody really cares for the tv show they just love the ride.

Splash Mountain won't suffer one bit. Will still be the same thrills and will still get some of the longest wait times in the park.
 
Benjsh said:
It ultimately doesn't really matter what enthusiasts think. Disney think about the GP and $$$$'s and they will no doubt love the ride and could care less about whether or not is geographically accurate.

Also......I'd rather it being based on a much better loved story that doesn't glamorise the slave trade personally.
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While Song of the South is definitely problematic, as it uses bad framing devices to retell folk stories that were previously retold by a white person. There is nothing in Splash Mountain that "glamorises the slave trade" as the slave trade is not mentioned, as no humans are in the ride at all, the story of Brer Rabbit and Brer Fox can be seen independently of the live action parts of the Song of the South and this is what Splash Mountain is really.
Now having said that, I do understand it probably is the right time to replace the attraction and I think that a ride with a connection to a problematic film is not a good thing. I'm not overall against removing Brer Rabbit and Brer Fox, I'm mainly not convinced they will improve what was there.

Realistically though, the pandemic has caused financial issues (don't forget Disney not only aren't making money from theme parks, they also can't make money from films right now as cinemas are shut) and it will be years until the re-theme actually happens.

Matt N said:
Have you seen some of what Disney has pulled off recently? I’m not Disney’s biggest super fan by any means, but some of their recent stuff has been fantastic, in my opinion! Things like Frozen Ever After (a comparable boat ride redo), Pandora and Galaxy’s Edge (haven’t seen it for myself, but looks brilliant in pictures) certainly don’t strike me as places where Disney have cut back immensely, and some of the modern technology they have at their disposal (e.g. the new Audio-Animatronics) could really improve the ride experience, in my opinion!

But if you have seen any of these and don’t like them, then fair enough!
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I've not been to Florida since 2016 so haven't experianced many newer attractions, but I did Frozen Ever After and it was fine. Made me wonder what they could have done if it was a brand new ride instead of shoe-horning it into the old Maelstrom space.

Pandora was well done and I don't think any major cost-cutting took place.

But look at Toy Story land it could be so much better. Originally Slinky Dog Dash was going to have channels dug for it to run in and a lot more characters, there was also several other elements of the land that were cut
Compare the 2015 concept art to the 2016 one after the scale of the ride was downgraded https://www.wdwmagic.com/attraction...ws-changes-from-the-original-announcement.htm

At Galaxy's Edge there was meant to be a lot more in the land including live performers and a whole sit down restaurant was cut.

Everyone raves about how good Tokyo DisneySea is as a theme park (I've not been yet) and thats mainly because the Oriental Land Company are willing to spend to make it look perfect, whereas when Disney are spending on their own parks they will try and shave features off and get the costs down.

I still love Disneyworld, but Disney haven't been going above and beyond in all attractions and with the recession following covid I don't think we will see many new attractions in the next five years (except those already almost finished).
 
Benjsh said:
Take the TOT for example. A much loved ride all over the world and one of my favs too. However when they announced that Californian one was being re-themed it was pure meltdown time. The twilight zone is an IP that's about 50 years old. I know they remade it not too long ago but it wasn't a huge success at all. Nobody really cares for the tv show they just love the ride.
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The major metldown was over the orginal Florida tower of terror being redone, so Disney did listen to fans to some extent and did the retheme on the inferior California (Paris has same version) attraction. I loved GotG Mission Breakout, it was a lot of fun, not as scary as ToT but hugely fun. I'm also very happy I can still ride the original in Florida as well, two different rides on two coasts is a good thing.
Also another reason ToT is so great is it doesn't rely on Twilight Zone, if the IP was removed a spooky hotel where people went missing is still a great concept. There has been that discussion elsewhere on the forum, that IP can make an OK ride good but the best rides are fantastic even without the IP. Twilight Zone adds to ToT, but it is a fantastic attraction in its own right.
I would be just as upset at losing ToT as I would Nemesis.
 
jon81uk said:
The major metldown was over the orginal Florida tower of terror being redone, so Disney did listen to fans to some extent and did the retheme on the inferior California (Paris has same version) attraction. I loved GotG Mission Breakout, it was a lot of fun, not as scary as ToT but hugely fun. I'm also very happy I can still ride the original in Florida as well, two different rides on two coasts is a good thing.
Also another reason ToT is so great is it doesn't rely on Twilight Zone, if the IP was removed a spooky hotel where people went missing is still a great concept. There has been that discussion elsewhere on the forum, that IP can make an OK ride good but the best rides are fantastic even without the IP. Twilight Zone adds to ToT, but it is a fantastic attraction in its own right.
I would be just as upset at losing ToT as I would Nemesis.
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Very true that they could easily re-theme to a haunted hotel. Pretty sure the vast majority of riders have never watched The Twighlight Zone once in their lives either so you can see why they tried to change it. I'd love to try out the GotG version too. It looks great fun.
 
Dave said:
The biggest issue with Guardians is how horrible the outside looks, particularly in the context of the park entrance.
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I don't find it too bad. Admittedly it's only on photos as I have never visited that side of America before but it looks exactly how it was supposed to and how I imagined it would. It's meant to be from a different Galaxy so it should look 'different' and it does.
 
Benjsh said:
I don't find it too bad. Admittedly it's only on photos as I have never visited that side of America before but it looks exactly how it was supposed to and how I imagined it would. It's meant to be from a different Galaxy so it should look 'different' and it does.
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Yes but it doesn't fit with the surroundings. It might improve once Avengers Campus opens. But otherwise it can look like someone dumped an alien fortress in 1940s Hollywood.
 
GOTG is an opposite of Tower of Terror OG, which is suspenseful, genuinely creepy and surprisingly understated, whereas its refurbed sister is much more immediate, and fun, but comparatively obnoxious.

Both work, but I would be gutted if the original disappeared. I think there's a strong case for it being the greatest theme park attraction of all-time, and the use of a subtle but effective IP would be part of that argument, even if the show has understandably floated into the fifth-dimension of the public consciousness.
 
Benjsh said:
I don't find it too bad. Admittedly it's only on photos as I have never visited that side of America before but it looks exactly how it was supposed to and how I imagined it would. It's meant to be from a different Galaxy so it should look 'different' and it does.
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Yeah as Jon says the issue is where it’s located. It’s not a big park and you can see it from most vantage point. It’s particularly noticeable from the entrance which is a 1930’s Hollywood theme (it was originally designed for that area, similar (though more detailed) as the Florida versions location.
 
The hilarious thing about the California Tower is they spent much money making the surrounding area fit into it (including the trolley cars) only to bung guardians onto it.

Not Disney's finest hour.
 
Benzin said:
The hilarious thing about the California Tower is they spent much money making the surrounding area fit into it (including the trolley cars) only to bung guardians onto it.

Not Disney's finest hour.
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This was the point I was going to make too. The big problem with DCA is it was a mess, they fixed it and now it's become an IP dump. They even have a whole episode of Inside Imagineering dedicated to fixing DCA, which neglects to mention all the changes that have been made since.

Still at least it saves Disneyland from being an IP dump. I don't mind Star Wars going in their as it doesn't stand out and is an IP that can stand the test of time.
 
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