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SeaWorld meltdown

AstroDan said:
Apologies - yes, of course there's an agenda - the agenda to shut SeaWorld down.

I knew commenting was a bad idea here because frankly I don't want to be drawn into the debate as I am firmly on the fence.

I am simply sick of it being discussed and the high and mighty attitude that many seem to take.

It is hypocrisy though to be so adamantly against SeaWorld yet visit.
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I bet the orcas get sick and tired of performing in small tanks too but there's nothing wrong with people wanting to discuss their opinions here. Its a talk forum!

Personally I don't want to see them close, but I do what them to stop the animal shows and keeping large animals.
 
To be honest it is going to take a hell of a lot to stop SeaWorld keeping killer whales, especially now they are spending all of this money on new enclosures. As I've said before, Shamu is basically SeaWorld's whole brand; without the shows the parks would more than likely flop. SeaWorld are never going to take that risk.

I don't really have much of an opinion on it all. It probably isn't great for the whales that they are kept in relatively small enclosures and are made to perform. At the same time many other terrible things happen around the world that lots of people put up with.

However I do have an opinion on one thing. Anyone who is so adamantly against what SeaWorld do should quite simply not visit the parks and give them money. If you visit then you are merely showing support. The same people should also not visit any SeaWorld Parks & Entertainment parks, so stay away from the two Busch parks. The money is all going into the same pot.

The thing that saddens me most about all this is the indirect impact it has had one on of my favourite theme parks in the world - Busch Gardens Williamsburg. Money simply is not there for world class attractions that we have seen in the past and Merlin style cuts have been taking place. I wish the park was sold to owner that are able to invest in and operate the park as it deserves.

:)
 
Sam said:
But it's not 'flavour of the month' because the crappy conditions for the massive whales are still exactly the same as when this campaign started, as they were a decade ago, as they were two decades ago. SeaWorld haven't changed anything, so why should the campaigners? They think something happening in the world is ethically wrong so they will keep trying to stop it happening until they succeed, like any campaigners.

SeaWorld doing good is like the Tories introducing gay marriage - it's good, yeah, but it merely exists so they can put a respectable face on all the crappy things they do. There is no way of mitigating it. Keeping massive whales in captivity is a scummy thing to do - end of.

I will be visiting because I want the creds, and that pathetically overpowers my ethical problems. I wish there was a way of going without giving them any money.
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If you truly believed in what you were saying then you wouldn't visit the park at all, you are coming across as a little hypocritical.

I think the educational and marine rescue side of things at SeaWorld is roughly on a par with Sea-Life centres. I'm pretty sure that SeaWorld is the biggest provider of marine rescue and rehabilitation in the world. If they close the parks, then a charity is going to have to pick up all the work they are doing.

They cannot release the killer whales into the wild, they won't survive and they haven't caught any new whales in 30 years (http://uk.whales.org/wdc-in-action/fate-of-captive-orcas) they are almost all born in captivity, compared to China and Russia where every captive whale is wild caught. They are building newer enclosures but due to available cash (understandably) this will take time for them to do all of the parks.
I think SeaWorld are doing what they can to appease the vocal minority who don't want the whales in captivity whilst also allowing the public to see these magnificant creatures.
 
Sam said:
I don't think their agenda is to shut SeaWorld down, I think their agenda is for SeaWorld to run their theme parks without any captive whales. If their theme parks are any good then they should be able to do that without going bankrupt.
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It's not quite as simple as that though is it? The SeaWorld franchise is pretty much built around whale and dolphin shows. The theme park aspect is a side show in comparison. When people recognise the SeaWorld brand, they associate it with orcas, not roller coasters. If you take the shows away, what does SeaWorld have to set itself apart from the likes of Universal and Disney? Asking SeaWorld to stop having captive whales is a bit like asking Burger King to stop selling burgers.

I think at some point in the future, we will probably see the end of whale shows and it will become one of those things we used to do until social perceptions changed. I don't envy SeaWorld's position of having to deal with this change over the coming years.

Personally, I've been becoming more of the opinion that keeping captive whales probably isn't ethical. However, I don't think this makes SeaWorld an evil organisation. They just find themselves in an unfortunate position at this point in history.

In reality, we can give our views on the matter but none of us can really make an informed comment without expertise in the field of cetology. Let's not forget that Blackfish is far from a balanced, rational documentary. It was designed to create mass hysteria and turn the public against Sea World.
 
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Bloody documentary makers, wanting people to share their passion for the gross mistreatment of animals.

Seaworld will just have to rebrand, they're a big enough company to survive phasing out the whale shows.
 
Blaze said:
B
Seaworld will just have to rebrand, they're a big enough company to survive phasing out the whale shows.
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Except they aren't doing either of those thing. They are building new whale enclosures, but continuing with the hugely popular shows. San Diego will get the new enclosure first, opening 2018 (http://screamscape.com/html/seaworld_california.htm). They will only stop doing the shows when people stop turning up to watch them.
 
Blaze said:
I know. I'm saying they are big enough to do it, not that they are doing it.
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I disagree. SeaWorld is struggling as it is. They would not survive without the orcas; the flagship park in Orlando would suffer in particular, where the whales are the only real selling point in an already crowded market.
 
Out of interest, what do people what them to do with all the killer whales they have? Seeing as they can't be released into the wild (I believe anyway) and their current enclosures are too small. Do people want them put down? Or moved away from the parks to suitable enclosures (if so where)?

:)
 
Move them somewhere better if such a place exists, if not, unfortunately the only option is to just stop breeding them and wait for them to die.
 
Blaze said:
Move them somewhere better if such a place exists, if not, unfortunately the only option is to just stop breeding them and wait for them to die.
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They are building better enclosures at least. Other option is to move them to a segregated part of the sea (as they can't survive in actual wild), but I think it's been said they don't live that well there either. I think the new tanks is the best option, but then it's a catch 22. Stop breeding and you have new enclosures and no whales eventually.
 
Unfortunately with the way the world is going there won't be any left full stop. With Orca's being placed on the endangered list. Then people will be saying, "if only there was a large zoo/aquarium with Orca's able to breed." I know it's not nice and there living conditions have been poor for too long, but hopefully that will change.
 
Why is everyone labelling those that has an issue with SeaWorld as an overbearing minority that's ruining the party for everyone else? What's wrong with campaigning for something you believe in. Of course there are going to be people with varying degrees of passion - those who are uncomfortable with SeaWorld's practises on one end of the scale and (lets be honest) PETA on the other.

I wouldn't go to SeaWorld myself - but if you have no issue with the company and want to visit that's absolutely fine. SeaWorld will do whatever they can to discredit anyone who speaks out against them. Anyone who's at all interested in this should read a book by John Hargrove titled Beneath the Surface. He's an ex-SeaWorld trainer and talks in depth about his experiences (both positive and negative - mainly negative) at the park. It's a really interesting read.
 
Like anything Airfan - it's the absurd polarised views that irritate.

People comparing Seaworld as though it's inherently against animals or its staff deliberately mis treats them.

Of course there's change to be made, but nothing is black or white - and certainly not the documentary.
 
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