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Coronavirus

Coronavirus - The Poll

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Anyone want to take bets on if or when we will be given ration books like our great/grand/parents [delete as needed]?
 
DiogoJ42 said:
I'll add to that: Once a "vaccine" is magiced up, it will be mandatory. Those who have it will be tattooed / chipped / marked in some way to show they are allowed outside. Those who refuse will be forcably quarenteeded, locked up, bannished, or even killed (either legally or lynched by a mob).

... Isn't there something in the bible about this...?
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There's something about it in Revelation, yes.
 
DiogoJ42 said:
Anyone want to take bets on if or when we will be given ration books like our great/grand/parents [delete as needed]?
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Possibly, I wouldn't rule anything out at the moment.

Thanks for the laugh @pluk but the BBC is far from an authoritive figure on anything, I'm still waiting for them to produce the photos they claim to have of the multiple drones that were being flown for days on end at Gatwick, and Dan Walker spent most of the this mornings breakfast TV in between the endless Coronovirus segments saying they didn't intend to cause distress to anybody or realise the part they played in driving the panic buying hysteria presently going on.
 
Rob said:
So if this is not much worse than the common cold, perhaps not even as deadly, why have hosptals in China and Italy been completely overrun? Why did China have to build new hosptals to be able to cope? Why are the Government looking at buying up beds in private hospitals and even hotels to help try and cope?
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The point I am trying to make is that we allow the common cold to spread because it is less harmful than the mass quarinty it would take to prevent it. I believe the same is true for Covid-19.
This virus is not the Black Plague or Spanish Flu. The people seriously effected by it are those who are already at risk. We should be doing what we can to protect them. But most people catch a cold and they are fine. Most people that catch Covid-19 also seem to be fine.
Shutting down the country to stop it's spread could be akin to cutting off your arm because of a lump on your little finger. Sure you've stopped it spreading to the rest of your hand but you've lost your hand anyway.
If stopping Covid-19 causes businesses to go bankrupt the same vulnerable people and many more could end up suffering anyway.
 
Tim said:
The point I am trying to make is that we allow the common cold to spread because it is less harmful than the mass quarinty it would take to prevent it. I believe the same is true for Covid-19.
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Fair enough, but the experts seem to disagree and they are experts for a reason.
 
That sounds like a sensible and rational response, but still makes a number of big assumptions about the severity. Truth is, if indeed the vast majority of cases (say, >95%) are mild enough to just stay at home for a few days then I'd agree it's a massive overreaction but I don't have the data to say so with confidence.

Regardless, given the trends of the past few days , I expect to see the number of serious cases in the UK rise dramatically in the next week or two, then (hopefully) slow down as the measures taken to reduce spread take hold. If such a spike occurs and causes extreme stress to the NHS, then it will be probably be judged to have been the right decision.
 
DiogoJ42 said:
Anyone want to take bets on if or when we will be given ration books like our great/grand/parents [delete as needed]?
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I remember ration books!
They were issued to essential car users (including my mum) in the early seventies during the oil crisis for petrol, but were never actually used.
Very quiet on the roads today around Preston, two lanes of the M6 empty at noon.
 
Rob said:
Fair enough, but the experts seem to disagree and they are experts for a reason.
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I'm not sure if they do disagree? The governments plan to keep the country running was recommended and supported by medical professionals. It's people's panicking (and certain media outlets) that seem to be pushing for total lockdown.

Just to clarify I've re-read a few of my posts and I admit my comparison to the common cold did not come across correct. I've been concerned about Covid-19 for longer than most. Maybe I've started burning out on it. But 3 weeks ago very few other people seemed to care, while now people are acting like the world's ending.
 
Reports on another (lesser) site that BPB have refused to alter bookings for the coming weekend!
Not giving alternative dates in the current situation, its not like they are asking for their money back.
 
Tim said:
The point I am trying to make is that we allow the common cold to spread because it is less harmful than the mass quarinty it would take to prevent it. I believe the same is true for Covid-19.
This virus is not the Black Plague or Spanish Flu. The people seriously effected by it are those who are already at risk.
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Says who? We dont know as of yet exactly how may will die or how many will get infected but many experts are throwing caution to the wind when asked if this is the next Spanish Flu. It certainly has the infectiousness and the death rate seems comparable.

As for the people who are affected it by it are already at risk - sorry but thats not true. I could quote many news stories of young people with no existing health concerns who have died from this. Only 2 days ago was the story of a 46 year old Italian paramedic, very fit and healthy. The news story I posted above quoted NHS staff treating many young, fit people under 40. And there was a WHO press conference today in which an expert said they have found children are at risk and children have died from this.

So while yes its the elderly who are more likely to die, many people under 60 are getting critically ill from this and if they dont get the necessary health care then they would die. Again, I refer you to my earlier post a few posts up where an NHS doctor is explaining the situation.

Seriously - no one can be complacent with this virus thinking it would affect them. Everyone has a duty to practice good hygiene and stay away from others if ill.
 
GaryH said:
Says who? We dont know as of yet exactly how may will die or how many will get infected but many experts are throwing caution to the wind when asked if this is the next Spanish Flu. It certainly has the infectiousness and the death rate seems comparable.

As for the people who are affected it by it are already at risk - sorry but thats not true. I could quote many news stories of young people with no existing health concerns who have died from this. Only 2 days ago was the story of a 46 year old Italian paramedic, very fit and healthy. The news story I posted above quoted NHS staff treating many young, fit people under 40. And there was a WHO press conference today in which an expert said they have found children are at risk and children have died from this.

So while yes its the elderly who are more likely to die, many people under 60 are getting critically ill from this and if they dont get the necessary health care then they would die. Again, I refer you to my earlier post a few posts up where an NHS doctor is explaining the situation.

Seriously - no one can be complacent with this virus thinking it would affect them. Everyone has a duty to practice good hygiene and stay away from others if ill.
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The Spanish Flu spread like wildfire and killed just as quickly. If this was Spanish Flu we'd have been locked down in January or 2/3rds of us would be dead.

I havent yet heard of a case here of people who weren't at risk dying. The cases I have heard of in China and Italy were Doctors or similar that spent all day being exposed to it. That doesn't mean these cases arn't concerning but they are not a reason for mass panic.

That last bit though about everyone having a duty I agree with.
 
Tim said:
Have you got any numbers to support this? PeteA's original post very clearly showed that the common cold is more deadly.

55 dead sounds like a terrible number, but it's nothing compared to the millions of people about to lose their jobs / a reliable source of income once this country shuts down!

Protect the old and vulnerable for now, but keep the young and fit going on as usual. Because in a couple of months time we are going to be wishing we hadn't made such a rash decision when thousands of people find they don't have jobs to go back to.
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This was talked about on Channel 4 recently:


This article talks about why it is wrong to compare coronavirus to the common flu:
https://www.sciencealert.com/the-ne...the-flu-but-they-have-one-big-thing-in-common

I'm sure governments don't take decisions lightly that will tank the global economy, but they are doing it because the alternative is worse.
 
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Most people will experience mild symptoms. Those who don't will require hospitalisation, and as long as they can be looked after most will pull through. The problem is when you have too many people in hospital and they cannot all be helped. That is where the fatalities will occur. If we had a ICU bed and doctor/nurse for everybody who was sick then it wouldn't be so critical.

It's also worth considering if you're not an at-risk group, this can be dangerous because of unintended consequence. If the NHS is overwhelmed with coronavirus patients, it limits their ability to help anybody else who, for example, has a heart attack, a workplace accident or a car accident.
 
PeteA said:
Maybe you are right. Maybe I shouldn't compare this to seasonal flu. I mean Covid 19 hasnt killed anywhere near the numbers that seasonal flu has already done this season. As facts stand today, normal seasonal flu is a bigger killer than Covid 19. That is fact. What is not a fact though is your comment that it spreads more quickly and has a fatality rate ten times higher than flu. We dont do a test for normal flu, many people get it and get on with it, not even bothering to go to a Doctor.

I personally am not bothered about Covid 19, just like I am not bothered about Flu. I say this as someone who is not a spring chicken anymore and as someones whos wife has immune deficiency. What will be will be.

What I am bothered about is the impact that this mass panic, purely created by media, social media and governments, will have on society. How many people will needlessly lose their jobs because of the measures implemented around the World? How many people will struggle to buy food / get food? How long will it be before the panic buying turns really ugly?

This is real my concern about all of this.
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Pete, it's true that we don't mass test for the common flu but we do know that it has a fatality rate of around 0.1%. The fatality rate for coronavirus is much higher than that, it ranges from around 1-3%. It's no use saying the absolute number of deaths from Covid 19 has been quite low so far because we are in the first few weeks of a pandemic. The number of deaths is increasing by the day.

Of course the mass panic is unhelpful. But we can't just go on like business as usual, and just tell the old folks to quarantine themselves. People are going to lose their jobs because of this and it's going to be really awful. But jobs and the economy can recover. Death is permanent. Unfortunately there are no good choices for governments, but even Trump - who couldn't give a toss about anything other than the economy - has lately put public health first.
 
Mother-in-law has just confidently told us that she's OK, still going to work, and she's NOT PANICKING.

She's also off to see her 83-year-old, infirm with MS, mother. :mad:

Trying to get her to realise that it's a stupid idea.
 
On the subject of Spanish flu, don't forget that at the time, almost the entire male population of the northern hemisphere had just spent five years slowly starving, in mud filled trenches, while being shot at, blown up, and gassed. Their immune systems MAY not have been in tiptop condition. ;)
 
DiogoJ42 said:
On the subject of Spanish flu, don't forget that at the time, almost the entire male population of the northern hemisphere had just spent five years slowly starving, in mud filled trenches, while being shot at, blown up, and gassed. Their immune systems MAY not have been in tiptop condition. ;)
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Meanwhile in 2020 the majority of the male population of the northern hemisphere have spent 5 years lounging around watching Netflix and playing on games consoles while munching on crisps, and other delights from Just Eat. Many have not seen sunlight for months, or even used their legs except to walk to the toilet (where there is an exceptional stock of loo roll). Poisoning by gas has been replaced by vaping and alcohol. I'm guessing their immune systems may also not be in tip top condition :) :) :) :)
 
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