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2017: General Discussion

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If you look at it in terms of value for a day..... (5pm close)

Arrive at 10am, get ticket and enter park and enter last ride queue at just before 5pm, that is 7 hours. Deduct an hour for food/drink/toilet stops. Thats 6 hours. Deduct another hour (at least) for walking to the rides, thats 5 hours. With regards queues, depends how busy the park is, but, lets say another hour queuing during the entire day, so that is 4 hours purely for rides.

I think on an average day you could fit in:

  • Nemesis
  • Galactica
  • Blade
  • Duel
  • Rapids
  • RMT
  • Thirteen
  • Rita
  • Oblivion
  • Enterprise
  • Hex
  • Battle Galleons
  • And last ride of the day on Smiler

(I've excluded Spinball as its usually a lengthy queue). So, that's £54 divided by the 13 rides = £4.15 per ride.

If you compare that to what a travelling fair now charges (in particular the cost of the rides at Hyde Park winter wonderland) then its not too bad. But on busier days, where you get on less, then obviously the value for money factor disappears.
 
Benzin said:
I wonder how many people pay on the gate for Disney (at full price), it's not exactly a place you go to on a whim...
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Some do. There are locals who don't want an annual pass. Or people doing a trip mainly to Universal but want 1/2 days at Disney. Although with FastPass+ being pre-bookable in advance (in Florida) I would expect more people are booking in advance, but the one day price is still the same. DisneyWorld only gets "cheap" if you get 5 or more park day tickets.But given most of the parks are open 12 hour days and there is a nighttime show every night at every park the prices are more justified. Even if the main aim of night time shows is to make you stick around and spend on food :)
 
I wouldn't call anyone who pays gate price an "idiot". The reason the gate price exists is to market a false value perception, that is completely unethical and misleading. DFS do the same with their sofa's and supermarkets where accused of this (more harshly it seems than other industries) recently. It's completely legal, but oversteps into grey territory in my opinion.

It's easy for us to say not to pay gate price because we know what it is, many do not and that extortionate price is payed by these people.

That aside, we have to look at the real gate price. As car parking is effectively a stealth charge, it's fair to add that to get a real entry ticket price. So considering online pricing, car park charge and 2 for 1 deals, the real price of entry is around the £35 mark.

I would say £15 Share the fun is a steal. 2 for 1 and sharing a car park charge, £30.50 is decent value. A family of 4 booked online comes out roughly similar value too. 2 people sharing car parking booking online and it comes out at £35.50, good value for a scarefest day, bit steep for a measly 5 hour day early season. £54 gate price, extortionate which ever way you look at it.

Howevever, I would rather a better product and higher tickets to match. I don't think anyone would find sub £40 a ticket poor value for a good 8 hours of a more polished quality experience. If you want a bit of a laugh on rides for a few hours for less than £30 you still have Thorpe, Chessington and loads of regional parks.
 
GaryH said:
(I've excluded Spinball as its usually a lengthy queue). So, that's £54 divided by the 13 rides = £4.15 per ride.

If you compare that to what a travelling fair now charges (in particular the cost of the rides at Hyde Park winter wonderland) then its not too bad. But on busier days, where you get on less, then obviously the value for money factor disappears.
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I sort of see where you're going with this, but I think there is a lot of intrinsic value in visiting Alton Towers over a lot of other parks or even a fairground.

jon81uk said:
Some do. There are locals who don't want an annual pass.
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Locals can get 5 single day tickets for $120 - but I take your point.

matthewgcole said:
I wouldn't call anyone who pays gate price an "idiot". The reason the gate price exists is to market a false value perception
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That was kind of my point. In terms of the ethics, I think we could probably go around in circles around that.

I do think them having less integrity in their gate price is starting to be addressed by web sales (in terms of the average price paid to gate price is narrowing), but it could be a long term problem, because I think there is a ceiling that the gate price will hit and have to stay at, irrespective of whether people are paying it or not.

The Pleasure Beach is £32.50 on the gate, for comparison - with discounts available depending on when you book.

matthewgcole said:
Howevever, I would rather a better product and higher tickets to match. I don't think anyone would find sub £40 a ticket poor value for a good 8 hours of a more polished quality experience. If you want a bit of a laugh on rides for a few hours for less than £30 you still have Thorpe, Chessington and loads of regional parks.
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I think the danger of higher pricing is that you would lose volume which could be catastrophic given Merlin's fairly healthy per-cap spending figures. Plus, if you want to lower the gate price - you have people paying more £s to enter but also a higher (100%?) percentage of the gate price which reduces your ability for advanced purchase commitment and I think harms your value proposition overall.
 
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Is splash closing again shortly? I've had a quick look for scarefest and there seems to be no available rooms after the first week in September
 
When the place will be heaving and lots of visitors what should they do? I know close it. I understand September but for scarefeast and fireworks surely?





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themeparkfan said:
When the place will be heaving and lots of visitors what should they do? I know close it. I understand September but for scarefeast and fireworks surely?
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Is Enchanted Village open? These decisions are made by people who have access to the occupancy data. If they thought they could make money, they would be open.
 
Why build all these places in the first place then? ?? Do premier Inn build hotels then close them if bookings are low why did they then go on to build even more? ?

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themeparkfan said:
Why build all these places in the first place then? ?? Do premier Inn build hotels then close them if bookings are low why did they then go on to build even more? ?
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It's a bit more complicated than the Premier Inn model.

Visitation is still way down after the Smiler incident, although there is seemingly some recovery in the numbers. They also have a reduced product line up and chances are you can do the bulk of what you want to do in a day with the shorter queues so the 'need' to stay over is reduced.

In terms of fireworks/Scarefest, they will have a pretty clear idea of the number of beds that they need, based on previous years and current booking trends. If for whatever reason numbers vastly exceed expectations, I am sure they could provide additional beds with Splash or whatever. It's better to have one full hotel than two half full ones, for instance.

Building CBeebies was clearly a decision taken with their eye on the longer term, they have faith that they can rebuild the brand and get back to (and exceed) visitor numbers pre-Smiler, especially with the very lucrative younger market.
 
I would assume that they are not expecting overall bookings to increase from last year so basically the CBeebies rooms take over from Splash. Hopefully when SW8 opens next year they can increase their visitor numbers and keep it open all year.
 
Based on the current booking availability for 2018 (which is already available on the website). Splash is only scheduled to open late May- early September next year too.

That could change of course but that's how things stand at the moment.
 
That sounds about right. I'd expect that the Enchanted Village expansion will either be scrapped of put on hold now as well, there seems to be no need for any more accommodation.

:)
 
Its no wonder bookings are down, the prices the hotels are charging are crazy, and the removal of the deposit facility has put even more people off (me included). I havent stayed in the hotels now for about 2 years, and I used to stay at least 3 times a year.
 
You're right on both fronts. In this current economic climate (and for the foreseeable future with Brexit) people haven't got that money to spend. So those prices are ridiculous especially as you have to pay in full and pay for cancellation insurance! ! Maybe nr London people will pay these prices at legoland, chessington and Thorpe but up this way no way! !! Suggestion to all buy a MAP for £130 go whenever the weather is good 5 or 6 times a year with a packed lunch and go to harvester or hungry horse in Stoke on way home. No need to spend money there works out at £20 a visit.

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