Discussion in 'Corner Coffee' started by Rob, 31st Oct 2019.
Good lord no I do not
Are you referring to the Lib Dems potentially striking a coalition deal with the Conservatives like in 2010? If so, I'd say that's now incredibly unlikely as their two visions on Brexit could not be more different; in my eyes, a Labour-Liberal Democrat coalition looks far more likely.
But if that's not what you mean, I apologise for misinterpreting you.
Okay. You still haven't said why anyone should vote Tory. And "I don't like Corbyn" or "they'll get Brexit done" don't count.
Honestly, you are a parody account, right?
Any sensible person who is semi-tempted to vote Tory because they genuinely think it would be good for society will take one look at your "opinions" and hastily reconsider.
Matt...three things you need to know before your first vote.
The majority of politicians tell lies, repeatedly.
They say things that they think the public want to hear.
They make secret agreements with the other parties behind closed doors, then lie about what they agreed.
It is called democracy.
People don't actually vote for what is best for society any more.
Greed is good is the new philosophy.
People try to work out which party will benefit them as an individual best, and vote for them.
What is good for society died with Thatcher.
Now THAT'S a take
This is utter horsesh*t.
Please see the East Coast Intercity franchise for actual proof.
In private ownership, this franchise failed to make money - twice. Both GNER and National Express simply couldn't turn a profit running that service.
As a result, it was returned into national ownership. Not only did passenger satisfaction and train reliability improve, but the nationalised service made a profit for the government.
A profit of over a billion pounds.
Can you imagine if every rail franchise was returning a billion quid to the government every five years, rather than it lining the pockets of private shareholders? A billion pounds to either re-invest in the railways, or to go towards building hospitals and schools...
Of course, the Tory 1993 Railways Act bars the UK government from running our railways, and so even though the East Coast service was profitable and reliable in public ownership, it had to be switched back to a private franchise...
And here's the thing that really gets my goat about the whole situation. Most of our big train operating companies in the UK are owned or part owned by foreign governments.
Arriva (who run about 25% of British train operators) are primarily owned by the German government. Govia is part owned by the French government. Abellio is run wholly by the Dutch government.
So whilst our government is barred, by law, from running our train services to put money back in the UK purse, a huge amount of the profits from these 'private' franchises goes to the nationalised rail operators from foreign governments. So our insanely high travel prices are basically subsidising rail travel for the French, Dutch and German public.
That is an absolute joke.
Boris said he'll put you down as a maybe.
That is very cynical, but also very true!!
TODAYS JEREMY CORBYN FACTS
Can't think of anything wrong with Jeremy Corbyn apart from...
Invited two IRA members to parliament two weeks after the Brighton bombing.
Attended Bloody Sunday commemoration with bomber Brendan McKenna.
Attended meeting with Provisional IRA member Raymond McCartney.
Hosted IRA linked Mitchell McLaughlin in parliament.
Spoke alongside IRA terrorist Martina Anderson.
Attended Sinn Fein dinner with IRA bomber Gerry Kelly.
Chaired Irish republican event with IRA bomber Brendan MacFarlane.
Attended Bobby Sands commemoration honouring IRA terrorists.
Stood in minute’s silence for IRA gunmen shot dead by the SAS.
Refused to condemn the IRA in Sky News interview.
Refused to condemn the IRA on Question Time.
Refused to condemn IRA violence in BBC radio interview.
Signed EDM after IRA Poppy massacre massacre blaming Britain for the deaths.
Arrested while protesting in support of Brighton bomber’s co-defendants.
Lobbied government to improve visiting conditions for IRA killers.
Attended Irish republican event calling for armed conflict against Britain.
Hired suspected IRA man Ronan Bennett as a parliamentary assistant.
Hired another aide closely linked to several convicted IRA terrorists.
Heavily involved with IRA sympathising newspaper London Labour Briefing.
Put up £20,000 bail money for IRA terror suspect Roisin McAliskey.
Didn’t support IRA ceasefire.
Said Hamas and Hezbollah are his “friends“.
Called for Hamas to be removed from terror banned list.
Called Hamas “serious and hard-working“.
Attended wreath-laying at grave of Munich massacre terrorist.
Attended conference with Hamas and PFLP.
Photographed smiling with Hezbollah flag.
Attended rally with Hezbollah and Al-Muhajiroun.
Repeatedly shared platforms with PFLP plane hijacker.
Hired aide who praised Hamas’ “spirit of resistance“.
Accepted £20,000 for state TV channel of terror-sponsoring Iranian regime.
Opposed banning Britons from travelling to Syria to fight for ISIS.
Defended rights of fighters returning from Syria.
Said ISIS supporters should not be prosecuted.
Compared fighters returning from Syria to Nelson Mandela.
Said the death of Osama Bin Laden was a “tragedy“.
Wouldn’t sanction drone strike to kill ISIS leader.
Voted to allow ISIS fighters to return from Syria.
Opposed shoot to kill.
Attended event organised by terrorist sympathising IHRC.
Signed letter defending Lockerbie bombing suspects.
Wrote letter in support of conman accused of fundraising for ISIS.
Spoke of “friendship” with Mo Kozbar, who called for destruction of Israel.
Attended event with Abdullah Djaballah, who called for holy war against UK.
Called drone strikes against terrorists “obscene”.
Boasted about “opposing anti-terror legislation”.
Said laws banning jihadis from returning to Britain are “strange”.
Accepted £5,000 donation from terror supporter Ted Honderich.
Accepted £2,800 trip to Gaza from banned Islamist organisation Interpal.
Called Ibrahim Hewitt, extremist and chair of Interpal, a “very good friend”.
Accepted two more trips from the pro-Hamas group PRC.
Speaker at conference hosted by pro-Hamas group MEMO.
Met Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh several times.
Hosted meeting with Mousa Abu Maria of banned group Islamic Jihad.
Patron of Palestine Solidarity Campaign – marches attended by Hezbollah.
Compared Israel to ISIS, Hamas, Hezbollah and al-Qaeda.
Said we should not make “value judgements” about Britons who fight for ISIS.
Received endorsement from Hamas.
Attended event with Islamic extremist Suliman Gani.
Chaired Stop the War, who praised “internationalism and solidarity” of ISIS.
Praised Raed Salah, who was jailed for inciting violence in Israel.
Signed letter defending jihadist advocacy group Cage.
Met Dyab Jahjah, who praised the killing of British soldiers.
Shared platform with representative of extremist cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.
Compared ISIS to US military in interview on Russia Today.
Opposed proscription of Hizb ut-Tahrir.
Attended conference which called on Iraqis to kill British soldiers.
Attended Al-Quds Day demonstration in support of destruction of Israel.
Supported Hamas and ISIS-linked Viva Palestina group.
Attended protest with Islamic extremist Moazzam Begg.
Made the “case for Iran” at event hosted by Khomeinist group.
Photographed smiling with Azzam Tamimi, who backed suicide bombings.
Photographed with Abdel Atwan, who sympathised with attacks on US troops.
Said Hamas should “have tea with the Queen”.
Attended ‘Meet the Resistance’ event with Hezbollah MP Hussein El Haj.
Attended event with Haifa Zangana, who praised Palestinian “mujahideen”.
Defended the infamous anti-Semitic Hamas supporter Stephen Sizer.
Attended event with pro-Hamas and Hezbollah group Naturei Karta.
Backed Holocaust denying anti-Zionist extremist Paul Eisen.
Photographed with Abdul Raoof Al Shayeb, later jailed for terror offences.
Mocked “anti-terror hysteria” while opposing powers for security services.
Named on speakers list for conference with Hamas sympathiser Ismail Patel.
Criticised drone strike that killed Jihadi John.
Said the 7/7 bombers had been denied “hope and opportunity”.
Said 9/11 was “manipulated” to make it look like bin Laden was responsible.
Failed to unequivocally condemn the 9/11 attacks.
Called Columbian terror group M-19 “comrades”.
Blamed beheading of Alan Henning on Britain.
Gave speech in support of Gaddafi regime.
Signed EDM spinning for Slobodan Milosevic.
Blamed Tunisia terror attack on “austerity”.
Voted against banning support for the IRA.
Voted against the Prevention of Terrorism Act three times during the Troubles.
Voted against emergency counter-terror laws after 9/11.
Voted against stricter punishments for being a member of a terror group.
Voted against criminalising the encouragement of terrorism.
Voted against banning al-Qaeda.
Voted against outlawing the glorification of terror.
Voted against control orders.
Voted against increased funding for the security services to combat terrorism.
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While I think a number of the examples cited in that list are egregious and in bad faith @SirDossa, nobody in this thread is actually waving a flag for Jeremy Corbyn himself, even if they're voting Labour. And criticising past decisions of the opposition leader doesn't justify the character or numerous cases against Boris, nor his plans for Brexit.
but if you vote labour this is the person that may.. end up running the country
Ill feel safer with good old BJ in charge
Isn't Boris dead in a ditch?
You can’t be serious?
Boris will screw us all.
If I were to pick from the two main parties, I think I would probably pick Labour, as I think I personally agree with more of their policies than the Conservatives'. There are of course good parts of the Conservatives' policies, but I think that I personally like what Labour stands for more on the whole. I haven't seen Labour's 2019 manifesto, but I really liked some elements of their 2017 manifesto, such as their commitment to scrapping university tuition fees and putting more money into public services. However, to the Conservatives' credit, they've also recently allocated more funding to public services.
One thing I will say about Labour, though, is that I don't think I am anywhere near as far left on the political spectrum as Jeremy Corbyn seems to be. I'd personally describe myself as in the centre of the political spectrum with perhaps a slight bias to the left. I'm not sure whether any of you would agree, but I'd say that Corbyn seems to be quite far left. I'm also not sure whether some of their recently announced policies would work in practice. For example, the shadow chancellor recently said that he didn't want there to be any billionaires in Britain whatsoever; I'm not really sure how you'd go about getting rid of every billionaire in the country or taking their wealth in an ethical way. I'm also unsure how Labour could abolish private schools in this country; while I agree that every child should be entitled to a good education, surely Labour can't force the private schools to shut down or make them become part of the state system. Am I missing something here?
I also read an article earlier that said about how up to 80% of Britain's wealthiest people were thinking of leaving the country in the event of a Corbyn government; I would quite like a non-Conservative government, but we can't really force such a high amount of talent and expertise to leave the country, in my opinion.
No, you're not missing anything, and your 'bias' towards the left comes from the sense of empathy and fairness that you presumably feel towards those who are worst-off in society. Perhaps you're also realising that it's not always as easy to escape that trap as bootstrap philosophy Tories would have you believe.
I sometimes think Labour are missing the mark with grandstanding and populist pronouncements like those you describe.. They are the wrong hills to die on. But I will say that there are very few 'ethical' billionaires, and that private schools often breed privilege, entitlement and a boy's club mentality, the effects of which do bleed down slowly through society and leave people locked out.
I was brought up in a firmly centrist environment, one that fortunately hasn't swung to the right, but has nonetheless been disillusioned by Corbyn. Similarly, I keep my distance from the cult of personality that often still surrounds him. Still, I am completely fed up and anxious about the disparity of wealth in the UK. I am fed up of the right-wing media still pedalling the 'strivers versus skivers' narrative, and more recently, I am equally fed up of corporations using obviously phoned in environmental and social justice concerns in order to appear progressive, when the most progressive thing they could do would be to pay their workers better or pay more taxes.
@Matt N you try and see the best in society, and I suspect that, like me, your mind doesn't exactly drift towards overthrowing the system or to the aesthetic of revolution. Nonetheless, something seriously needs to change. The billionaires will survive.
I currently live in Germany. The country is fiscally conservative, cash rich and proud of it. And yet, people aren't constantly taken to the cleaners by their employers, they have a decent safety net, are not forced to work when they're clearly unable to, can afford local public transport and are guaranteed housing. It's not a perfect system, but there is a way a country can thrive in terms of capital and not sell its citizens down the river.
Corbyn isn't really "far left". It is a reflection of the centre-right consensus (under Blair and Cameron) in recent decades that he appears to be so.
Yeah in 2010 their two respective visions on tuition fees "could not be more different" either, but that oh so tempting lure of power....
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