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[2024] Alpenexpress & Tiroler Wildwasserbahn Rebuild

@Poisson and mines first morning at EP in 2021 started with us having to leave the hotel as the fire alarm was sounding.

Definitely seemed to be a good response by the local firefighters. Also meant we scored a rare emergency exit
 
pluk said:
I wonder if any filled ride vehicles did travel through that building once it was noticeably on fire? That would have been a hell of an experience, terrifying if you knew it shouldn't have fire effects and impressive if you didn't! All a bit too close to my themepark related nightmare I used to have a lot!

https://towersstreet.com/talk/threads/theme-park-related-dreams-youve-had.5733/post-321604
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I was wondering - its probably safer to keep the ride flowing and get people moving through the ride - however that could mean into the path of a danger...however if they Evacked the ride i.e. drained the water and stopped - people could be stranded and trapped in a stationary place! - its a hard one to call
the hope is that the fire hasn't taken hold enough by the time the last manned boat travels through.

I always wondered what happened on Mr rapids tropical; travels and wicked witches haunt back in 2000 - especiallyWWH - - as an omnimover - when was the last guest dispatched into the ride?.... and would it be easier and safer to manage, to keep the ride moving and returning guests to the station or simply stopping it dead... possibly leaving guests in a danger zone!
 
I would suggest with any ride like this the process is to keep the rides moving. Send empty trains, cars, boats etc to allow those with guests to return to the station where they can be unloaded. That will by far be the quickest and safest way to offload guests. This was the procedure for the Black Hole at Alton Towers back in the day.

I guess the only time you wouldn't do this is if the fire is in the station itself, or there is a loss of electical power.
 
Alsty said:
I would suggest with any ride like this the process is to keep the rides moving. Send empty trains, cars, boats etc to allow those with guests to return to the station where they can be unloaded. That will by far be the quickest and safest way to offload guests. This was the procedure for the Black Hole at Alton Towers back in the day.

I guess the only time you wouldn't do this is if the fire is in the station itself, or there is a loss of electical power.
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Also (especially in the case of something like Black Hole where guests are at height) if people are stopped and trying to get out they are at more risk of injuring themselves or getting trapped further. That was the only reason for lap restraints on Black Hole, if you did stop on the lift hill and attempted to exit to the left then its a long drop. On a boat ride if you get off the wrong side it may not lead to an exit anyway, further putting yourself in danger.
 
Acccording to an Europapark Spokesperson they did indeed let the rides continue until it was empty and asked the visitors to leave the area due to a technical problem. This happened at once after the first smoke detection alarm and long before the flames were visible. It is their trained standard procedure in cases of smoke alarm.
 
Rob said:
The UK and Germany are very different. Just look at the case of the rapids at Alton Towers and the hoops they are having to jump through to be able to operate it following the incident at Drayton Manor. That simply wouldn't happen in Germany. That is not to say that safety standards are any less there, just that a different approach is taken.

Without knowing the full facts of both fires it's hard to say what they should or should not be doing. I am just confident that they will take all necessary steps to minimise the risk of there being another fire. Closing everything else that could burn is not a necessary step for all of the reasons already outlined.
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Can you name me any other theme park in the world, where within a short space of time, there have been two huge fires, destroying sizeable areas and attractions both times?

Huge numbers of theme parks operate world wide, with densely packed areas, large attractions filled with flammable materials and general similar overall designs to Europa Park, in the general sense of themepark design.

To my knowledge, not a single one has had two massive fires like this in a short space of time, not one. What are the chances?

Europa is not more flammable or different in it's construction to any other park on the planet. Minus obvious building codes, they are all built with the same general materials.

We've had fires at other parks, even fires that echo one of Europa Parks fires in size, plus bigger! What we have not had is any other park on this planet having two highly destructuctive and large fires in a short amount of time. Not one.

I digress slightly, there could be a handful of parks that had have had unlucky fate similar to Europa. The argument I'm putting forward can still be made though. If there are any it is just a handful, if that. A handful in a world with huge numbers of parks.

These facts suggest that these double events are very rare in the world of themeparks. But not through chance, luck or sheer fortune as it doesn't work like that. The reason why it is non existant or really low is because parks have properly managed and mitigated their fire risks and learnt lessons quickly. So that when it has happened a first time, it almost never happened a second.

Either Europa have clearly not mitigated their fire risks as well as they could have, in the same way that other parks built with the same materials across the world have. Preventing second major fires for the vast majority of cases. Or, its an insurance job

I suspect the first.

My view on what I thought they should be doing, was based on the fact that Europa Park quite clearly have not manage their fire risks properly. You know, like almost every other park on the planet with similar attractions has managed to do so.

I will take all of that back if the fire is arson. If it is not, as much as I love Europa Park, the blame lies firmly at the feet of the park management. Really good to get people out safe and well though, very well executed. Not having a second time would have been far better however.
 
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I'm not disagreeing with your point, but if you fill your post with hyperbolic claims that fires like this never happen elsewhere than I have to object.
Only earlier this year Eftrling's Raveleijn caught fire, not once but twice within 2 weeks! Also this year Disney's Fantasmic dragon caught fire for the second time (I'm trying to find when the first time was but it's buried by all the recent news articles. I'm sure it was in the last 5 years).
And let's not forget Alton Towes lost 2 of the Skyrider stations within 2 years of each other.

Now sure none of these are dark rides, but if you look at the cause of both the fires at Europa it wasn't the rides that were the starting point. They just acted as the kindling that allowed it to grow so large. Every one of those previously mentioned fires could have been just as damaging had they had somewhere to spread too.
So I'd state that the real issue is not that a fire started, but Europa is so much more densely packed it's nearly impossible to stop a fire once it spreads to a large show building. So how going forward can they stop that from happening?
 
Tim said:
I'm not disagreeing with your point, but if you fill your post with hyperbolic claims that fires like this never happen elsewhere than I have to object.
Only earlier this year Eftrling's Raveleijn caught fire, not once but twice within 2 weeks! Also this year Disney's Fantasmic dragon caught fire for the second time (I'm trying to find when the first time was but it's buried by all the recent news articles. I'm sure it was in the last 5 years).
And let's not forget Alton Towes lost 2 of the Skyrider stations within 2 years of each other.

Now sure none of these are dark rides, but if you look at the cause of both the fires at Europa it wasn't the rides that were the starting point. They just acted as the kindling that allowed it to grow so large. Every one of those previously mentioned fires could have been just as damaging had they had somewhere to spread too.
So I'd state that the real issue is not that a fire started, but Europa is so much more densely packed it's nearly impossible to stop a fire once it spreads to a large show building. So how going forward can they stop that from happening?
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Name me one then. Just one. If you name me one. I'll take it back.

Any theme park, to keep it fair, that has had 2 major fires within a 5 year period in the last 20 years. The time frame being important due to construction materials used. With the Internet it should not be hard to find one, should it exist (it doesn't)

Europa Park is not more densely packed than other major parks on the planet. It is not. I throw that argument out completely. Some of the Disney parks are more dense, they cope fine. There seems to be this bizarre notion among many people that there is something unique or special about Europa Park, in order to justify the reasons for the fire. Total nonsense.

The is a very important distinction from small fires to large firers. Hence why ive stated large fires. There have been many small fires happening, multiple times. Not large ones though.

I guess you could call Alton Towers fires medium. They also clearly did not learn their lessons too. The only reason those fires did not spread was due to the Skyride being isolated.

If one doesn't exist. It is not hyperbole.
 
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How large do these fires have to be before you class them as large?!

If we aren't counting the 2 Skyrider fires as large then I don't think I'd class this latest one at Europa as large either. In terms of level of destruction the Skyrider stations was completely destroyed, compared to this incident in which the building is still standing (minus the roof and the content inside it).
Off the top of my head I can only think of 2 fires that have truly been huge. Europa's last fire and the one at Phantasialand. Maybe the one at Thorpe Park as well but I don't know just how big that one was.
 
I would argue the Main drive fire was moderate as it only took the roof. Dark forest station was major.

rob666 said:
Funhouse at Blackpool was rather hot.
Then there was the National.
The Beach has had a few.
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I think timeframes are the bit being missed when you bring a park that has operated for over a century into the mix.

I don’t think EP are actively negligent and I don’t think other attractions should close until they fix the problem but those who argue the fire proclivity of the park isn’t at least curious are just a little curious themselves.
 
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So for the most part, but not always, a small or medium fire at a themepark could indicate their fire mitigation processes were able to stem the fire. Providing the fire was in a place where it could spread of couse. (Of which there have been PLENTY).

A huge fire on the other hand, suggests you have non existent of very rubbish fire mitigation processes.

This is why it is an important distinction to make.

This is 2023 guys, we have learnt so much from fires in the last century that they very relarely happen, even more so at themeparks full of very flammable materials. There have been lots of opportunity's for large fires to happen at parks, robust fire mitigation processes have prevented them though. To the point that when it does happen, questions do need raising over their processes.

Fires in Blackpool. Very old rides. Very outdated fire suppression, construction materials and more importantly, not within 5 years of each other. Processes can lapse over time, people get complacent, potentially explaining why fires started. Within 5 years they should still be fresh and at the forefront of the minds of those in charge. Hence why I chose to exclude them. Buildings that burnt at Europa, they relatively more modern, so fire suppression should have been much more robust in materials used and other means. This is why I excluded anything over 30 years of age. Plus, multiple fires longer than a 5 year period.

I'm calling the Skyride fires as medium in terms of the area covered. The area covered in both Europa Park fires is much, much larger. Yes Slyride fires were large fires in their own right, when you compare them to Europa Parks fires though, they are medium sized at best, even small. But yes, I agree, absolutely large on their own merit. Well, the dark forest one at least.
 
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Roland Mack, Ed Euromaus, Silver Star, Black Forest House
Minimoys, Volo Da Vinci, Snorri Touren, Dancing Dingie
Madame Freudenrich, Michael Mack, YullBe Go, Geisterschloss
Kolumbusjolle, Lichtenstein, Eatrenalin, Nikola Tesla

We didn't start the fire
It was always burning, since the world's been turning
We didn't start the fire
No, we didn't light it, but we tried to fight it
 
I think we can safely say people have their own views on this which aren't going to budge either way now, and we're just going to go round in yet more circles with little change to what's being talked about.

So unless there's official updates on changes being made post fire or on the investigation, please could we continue discussion based on the progress of the rebuild from here on in. Thanks!
 
Wonderful - that all looks much better! Love that they've created a temporary shop as well.

The Panoramabahn closing early is no doubt so they can get on with demolition/clearing works as soon as possible in the evenings.
 
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