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2024: General Discussion

Bowser said:
I was actually thinking about this earlier. The park hasn’t technically had a new major attraction since 2018 right? And now likely won’t till 2026?

The Nemesis retrack was well presented (and needed) but from a casual perspective it’s the same 30 year old ride and probably not much of a reason to visit if you’re on the fence.

Those big 90/00 years seemed like they were really driven by big additions every 2-3 years.
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Every 4 for the B&Ms, but there was always something new in-between.

1994 Nemesis & Toyland Tours
1995 was Energizer and the Old MacDonalds Farm retheme
1996 saw the hotel and Storybook Land
1997 Ripsaw and Nickelodeon Outta Control (RIP)
1998 Oblivion
1999 Ug Land retheme & FROG HOPPER!
2000 Hex
2001 Submission
2002 Air
2003 Splash Landings
2004 Spinball Whizzer
2005 Rita

It sort of all stagnated after that, or at least the speed of new investments significantly slowed down. I've missed a lot out, and most of the rethemes, but that gives you an idea that a new attraction was pretty much guaranteed every single year at one point.

Haunted Hollow being 2007's new key attraction was a low point.
 
Jb85 said:
@GooseOnTheLoose yes a footpath in 2007 was never an attraction.
You make a valid point though, something new did come every year. It’s needed if you ask to generate repeat visits especially at the premium prices now charged
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If we take 2005 as a starting point, since the end of that season, in 19 years we've had

Mutiny Bay, Th13teen, The Smiler, Cbeebies Land (a retheme), Octonauts, Nemesis Sub-Terra (twice), Curse at Alton Manor (a retheme), Wickerman and Nemesis Reborn (a retheme).

I think we've actually lost more rides and attractions, in the intervening 19 years, than we've had new. I could be wrong though.

This would be why fans hark back to the days of Tussaud's though, a draw every year. That's discounting the shows (Peter Rabbit on Ice, Webmaster, Barney & Friends, The Tweenies) and other entertainment.
 
The length of time and amount of “brand new space” attractions is even more frightening. I.e. something that isn’t a replacement or refurb. It’s what makes Project Horizon so extraordinary and disappointing they aren’t on with it already. And if inevitably it turns out to be a terrible IP, that the Scott O Neil era brings whole new problems.

As mentioned the park basically hasn’t expanded and arguably regressed for 20 years.

Combine that with a disjointed resort offering and regressed events, shows, f&b and historical. It just shows how we are where we are.

A bit like the country it’s going to take 5 plus to turn around. And it’s a very low bar.

£9 hot dogs
People going for breakfast in ATH in a onesie with no shoes on
Festoon lights instead of generators

But hey, new bins!
 
The simple reason why all parks are quieter.
Money.
People do not have the same amount of disposable income they had a decade ago.
Covid, and specifically after it, caused a false peak in all entertainment.
We are now in a skint trough, only the better off can afford theme park visits.
Simple as that...if you are not seen as offering real value for money, people won't visit.
Merlin only offer real value on passes, so far fewer cash paying punters, and another drop in general operating standards to recoup some profit.
So slow openings, and early closes.
Slow dive to the bottom.
 
Received an updated T&C from Merlin today, can only imagine it’s in relation to the changing park hours at AT?

As of 31st August 2024, the following will apply to your respective Pass type:

Merlin Annual Pass

4. Merlin reserves the right to vary the opening and closing dates of the Attractions, to require pre-booking for any Attraction (for which a small fee may apply), to impose or vary limits on the numbers of persons (or of particular categories of persons based on matters including but not limited to what type of pass or entry ticket they may intend to use) allowed to book entry for or to enter any Attraction on any given day/ at any given time, to close, remove or cancel all or any part of the rides, events or facilities within the Attractions, and to remove Attractions from the Platinum Pass scheme in each case for one or more of the following reasons: technical, health and safety, legal, regulatory and/or operational reasons, temporary or permanent closure of Attractions, attractions ceasing to be owned or controlled by Merlin, or due to special events or private functions. Any such variation, requirement or other change shall take immediate effect upon its adoption by Merlin. Unless you have exercised your right to cancel your Platinum Pass within 14 days of entering into this contract as described above, the full value or any part of the value of the Platinum Pass will not be refunded nor will any compensation be payable if any of the Attractions become unavailable or if any of the Attractions (or any part of any of the Attractions) are temporarily or permanently closed or removed from the Platinum Pass scheme.

Merlin will endeavour to publish relevant information as soon as possible if an Attraction requires advance booking, is operating under capacity restrictions, has reached capacity, has booked out of all or certain categories of entry slots at certain times/ on certain days, is closing or where certain rides or part of an Attraction becomes unavailable. Passholders are advised to check the Merlin Annual Pass Facebook feed, https://www.facebook.com/merlinannualpass/and the Website, https://www.merlinannualpass.co.uk for any cancellations or closures and special events (which may have additional costs) taking place on the relevant date and/or time of their proposed visit. Please note that some Attractions are subject to adverse weather conditions and therefore Passholders are advised to check the relevant Attraction website before travelling.

Membership

27.1 A Membership entitles the Passholder to admission to the Attractions during the Validity Period subject to the operating calendars of each Attraction included in your Membership at the time and any applicable exclusion dates that apply at the relevant time. The opening and closing dates of the Attractions may be changed by the Attractions during the Validity Period and Attractions (or any part of the rides, events or facilities within the Attractions) may be removed from your Membership, temporarily or permanently closed, removed or cancelled for one or more of the following reasons: maintenance, health and safety and/or other operations reasons, temporary or permanent closure of Attractions, attractions ceasing to be owned or controlled by Merlin, reasons set out in the Attractions' regulations or due to special events or private functions. Please check individual Attraction opening and closing dates on the relevant Attraction's website and the Membership exclusions and restrictions set out in this Term 27 before your visit. PLEASE NOTE THAT NOT ALL ATTRACTIONS ARE OPEN ALL YEAR.

27.2 For the avoidance of doubt, the full value or any part of the value of the Membership will not be refunded nor will any compensation be payable if any of the Attractions become unavailable during the Validity Period or if any or part of any of the Attractions are closed due to technical, health and safety or other operational reasons or special events or private functions or where any Attraction is removed from the Membership scheme. If we decide to remove an Attraction entirely from the Membership scheme, we will give you no less than 30 days' written notice of this (unless circumstances render it impracticable or impossible to provide such notice, in which case we will provide as much notice as we reasonably can). Passholders are advised to check the Merlin Pass Facebook feed,www.facebook.com/merlinannualpass, and the events page of the relevant Attraction's website for any cancellations or closures and special events (which may have additional costs) taking place on the relevant date and/or time of their proposed visit. Please note that some Attractions are subject to closure due to adverse weather conditions and therefore Passholders are advised to check the relevant Attraction's website before travelling.
 
Bowser said:
Received an updated T&C from Merlin today, can only imagine it’s in relation to the changing park hours at AT?

As of 31st August 2024, the following will apply to your respective Pass type:

Merlin Annual Pass

4. Merlin reserves the right to vary the opening and closing dates of the Attractions, to require pre-booking for any Attraction (for which a small fee may apply), to impose or vary limits on the numbers of persons (or of particular categories of persons based on matters including but not limited to what type of pass or entry ticket they may intend to use) allowed to book entry for or to enter any Attraction on any given day/ at any given time, to close, remove or cancel all or any part of the rides, events or facilities within the Attractions, and to remove Attractions from the Platinum Pass scheme in each case for one or more of the following reasons: technical, health and safety, legal, regulatory and/or operational reasons, temporary or permanent closure of Attractions, attractions ceasing to be owned or controlled by Merlin, or due to special events or private functions. Any such variation, requirement or other change shall take immediate effect upon its adoption by Merlin. Unless you have exercised your right to cancel your Platinum Pass within 14 days of entering into this contract as described above, the full value or any part of the value of the Platinum Pass will not be refunded nor will any compensation be payable if any of the Attractions become unavailable or if any of the Attractions (or any part of any of the Attractions) are temporarily or permanently closed or removed from the Platinum Pass scheme.

Merlin will endeavour to publish relevant information as soon as possible if an Attraction requires advance booking, is operating under capacity restrictions, has reached capacity, has booked out of all or certain categories of entry slots at certain times/ on certain days, is closing or where certain rides or part of an Attraction becomes unavailable. Passholders are advised to check the Merlin Annual Pass Facebook feed, https://www.facebook.com/merlinannualpass/and the Website, https://www.merlinannualpass.co.uk for any cancellations or closures and special events (which may have additional costs) taking place on the relevant date and/or time of their proposed visit. Please note that some Attractions are subject to adverse weather conditions and therefore Passholders are advised to check the relevant Attraction website before travelling.

Membership

27.1 A Membership entitles the Passholder to admission to the Attractions during the Validity Period subject to the operating calendars of each Attraction included in your Membership at the time and any applicable exclusion dates that apply at the relevant time. The opening and closing dates of the Attractions may be changed by the Attractions during the Validity Period and Attractions (or any part of the rides, events or facilities within the Attractions) may be removed from your Membership, temporarily or permanently closed, removed or cancelled for one or more of the following reasons: maintenance, health and safety and/or other operations reasons, temporary or permanent closure of Attractions, attractions ceasing to be owned or controlled by Merlin, reasons set out in the Attractions' regulations or due to special events or private functions. Please check individual Attraction opening and closing dates on the relevant Attraction's website and the Membership exclusions and restrictions set out in this Term 27 before your visit. PLEASE NOTE THAT NOT ALL ATTRACTIONS ARE OPEN ALL YEAR.

27.2 For the avoidance of doubt, the full value or any part of the value of the Membership will not be refunded nor will any compensation be payable if any of the Attractions become unavailable during the Validity Period or if any or part of any of the Attractions are closed due to technical, health and safety or other operational reasons or special events or private functions or where any Attraction is removed from the Membership scheme. If we decide to remove an Attraction entirely from the Membership scheme, we will give you no less than 30 days' written notice of this (unless circumstances render it impracticable or impossible to provide such notice, in which case we will provide as much notice as we reasonably can). Passholders are advised to check the Merlin Pass Facebook feed,www.facebook.com/merlinannualpass, and the events page of the relevant Attraction's website for any cancellations or closures and special events (which may have additional costs) taking place on the relevant date and/or time of their proposed visit. Please note that some Attractions are subject to closure due to adverse weather conditions and therefore Passholders are advised to check the relevant Attraction's website before travelling.
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They’ve always had the ability to amend park hours in the T&C’s so it won’t be that.

There is some discussion on this change here:

Post in thread 'Merlin Entertainments: General Discussion'
https://towersstreet.com/talk/threads/merlin-entertainments-general-discussion.5101/post-477572
 
Alphe86 said:
TPI Facebook is saying there’s a new clause about charging passholders an entry fee
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That part of the clause isn't new at all, it's in the current (soon to be old) terms:
Terms & Conditions taken from Merlin Annual Pass website, 1st August 2024:

Merlin Annual Pass

4. Merlin, in its absolute discretion, reserves the right to vary the opening and closing dates of the Attractions, to require pre-booking for any Attraction (for which a small fee may apply),
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I do wish sites like TPI would check and investigate their stories, rather than making assumptions... Ironically they actually missed the bigger news and the actual change.

The new parts of the clause, specifically around the ability to entirely remove attractions from MAP, are being discussed here:

Merlin Entertainments: General Discussion

It would appear as though Merlin’s trademarking company has trademarked the name “Skybound”: Could this be the name of an upcoming attraction in a Merlin park? I can’t think of what attraction it could be, though… I don’t think it would really fit Project Ocean, and I can’t think of any others...
towersstreet.com towersstreet.com

Edit: Merlin have replied to a user's comment, on the TPI thread, confirming that the small fee charge is a legacy clause.
Screenshot 2024-08-01 at 12.56.27.png
 
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I think taking all this off of a few discounted days is a bit extreme. Maybe it’s for people on a budget, so that they get a chance to go (on a stricter timetable, because of the selected dates, of course) but also the people who can shell out the money can go whenever they want.

How to fix the current problems? Cash injection. Even the big players do it, Hollywood studios over in Florida was in a very bad place before they decided to build the Tower Of Terror. It was so good at doing that apparently, they did it two more times.
Maybe Alton Towers needs its Tower of Terror right now.
 
The_bup said:
I think taking all this off of a few discounted days is a bit extreme. Maybe it’s for people on a budget, so that they get a chance to go (on a stricter timetable, because of the selected dates, of course) but also the people who can shell out the money can go whenever they want.

How to fix the current problems? Cash injection. Even the big players do it, Hollywood studios over in Florida was in a very bad place before they decided to build the Tower Of Terror. It was so good at doing that apparently, they did it two more times.
Maybe Alton Towers needs its Tower of Terror right now.
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As nice as this is to think, this probably isn’t the reason. Merlin now operates automated surge pricing, meaning that the ticket price automatically correlates with availability. This would indicate that August’s remaining £29 days are reasonably quiet.

I fully agree, however, that a new big investment may well help to reinvigorate interest in the park. People on here are derisive of regular big investments, but I think they are important to keep people returning and to prevent the lineup from feeling stale to the average visitor. Alton Towers’ major ride lineup is arguably almost getting to the point where it might feel stale to the average visitor; Wicker Man was 6 years ago now, and with the status of Project Horizon unknown, I think the earliest we will get a new major investment, in an absolute best case scenario, is 2026. 8 years is a long time; to put things into some perspective, that’s as long as the period between Derren Brown’s Ghost Train and Hyperia at Thorpe Park, and that felt like a long time (to me at least).

Refurbishing stuff is all well and good, but I think if Alton Towers goes much longer without a major investment, they could mirror the trajectory of Thorpe Park in the mid to late 2010s and slip into somewhat of a rut that will be hard to get out of. As much as I accept that the work that is ongoing is necessary, part of me does question whether delaying Horizon beyond 2025 (one of the planning documents hinted that it was originally intended for 2025) was the right choice, because I think the park does need that major investment every so often, and I’d argue that we’re almost getting to the point where it will have felt like too long since we last had one.
 
Matt N said:
As nice as this is to think, this probably isn’t the reason. Merlin now operates automated surge pricing, meaning that the ticket price automatically correlates with availability. This would indicate that August’s remaining £29 days are reasonably quiet.
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Although I think the price has gone down to £29 on those days, which is what seems unusual.

Also £29 is a new low price anyway, previously even with a Kellogg's 2for1 you couldn't get much below £32 recently. Now the Kellogg's 25% off takes a discount on that price, so down to £22!
 
rob666 said:
Which, I would say, with the current offering, with lengthy ride closures, poor access, dodgy expensive food and miserable opening hours...£22 is about right.
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What do you mean by “poor access” @rob666? Are you referring to the roads and transport links to the park (admittedly not great), or is it to do with accessibility? If the latter, I’m not really sure where they’re currently dropping the ball aside from maybe a few ongoing teething issues with RAP?
 
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