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2024: General Discussion

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GooseOnTheLoose said:
There isn't any general evidence though, as you've said, it's speculation. If we're going on speculation, rumour and "general VIBES" then let's look at anecdotal reports. The park can't both be very busy, in various trip reports posted here, with very long queues and the oft repeated "no quiet walk on days", and have low attendance.
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Long queues don’t necessarily mean high attendance. Alton in particular has had quite weak ride availability this year, as well as considerably lower overall ride capacity than it used to have in years gone by.

These things will drive up queue times even if attendance is low, as there are less operating attractions to spread guests between. Poor ride availability will put certain attractions out of reach, and the fact that the park has less rides than it used to means that the queues are longer on the rides it has.
 
Alphe86 said:
You say it’s not been popular but, all major rides at 60-90 mean it’s too popular for the ride count as, with a standard 10-6 summer opening, you wouldn’t get even the big rides done in that time let alone filler
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the 90 mins is only for like a hour or 2 of the whole day, and the rest of the rides are normally less than 60 mins, and most the summer days hasn't seen a 90 min queue, also I recall last year the queue to enter the park was quite long and would reach back to the chained oak or further on most summer days, but the times I have been there has been no queue.

It is just VIBES, and I am noticing that it feels like there are less people in the park
Matt N said:
Long queues don’t necessarily mean high attendance. Alton in particular has had quite weak ride availability this year, as well as considerably lower overall ride capacity than it used to have in years gone by.

These things will drive up queue times even if attendance is low, as there are less operating attractions to spread guests between.
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availability wasn't particularly well last year either, tbh this year I haven't been in a queue and the ride breaks as much as last year (but there are problems, like the smiler being down for a couple days or wicker man) I am curious why it has dropped as other parks like that in the USA from what I have read have also seen avalivility drops.

also last year nemesis was closed last year, so there would be more demand on the rides.
Matt N said:
Maybe this is in part down to me living in the South (albeit the South West rather than near London), but all in all, the weather this summer hasn’t seemed quite as bad as last year. It started off a bit rainy and cold, but it’s seemingly been quite sunny and dry for much of July and August. Perhaps that rainy, cold period at the start of summer did put a lot of people off, but overall, the weather this summer has not seemed as overwhelmingly bad as last year’s summer weather was.
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I travel to bristol for work quite often and it is often night and day, I would put shorts and a T-shirt on in bristol, and when I arrive in the west midlands it is pouring it down, and freezing and often requires jeans and jumpers. often the north and the west has felt more like autum/winter this summer.

Matt N said:
The other interesting to note about attendance is that outwardly at least, it seems as though Alton Towers and maybe Chessington World of Adventures have suffered more than Thorpe Park and Legoland Windsor.
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This is why I suspect the weather is playing a role, all the other parks are in the south with nice weather this year, alton is up north where it has been really bad.
 
Matt N said:
Long queues don’t necessarily mean high attendance. Alton in particular has had quite weak ride availability this year, as well as considerably lower overall ride capacity than it used to have in years gone by.
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By the same measure, long queues, poor ride availability and "VIBES" don't necessarily mean low attendance. Operations this year appear, to me at least, no different than last and we've had the reintroduction of a throughput machine; this could suggest that numbers are up on last season. We don't actually know and won't know for sure until Merlin / Alton Towers release visitor numbers (if ever).
 
GooseOnTheLoose said:
There isn't any general evidence though, as you've said, it's speculation. If we're going on speculation, rumour and "general VIBES" then let's look at anecdotal reports. The park can't both be very busy, in various trip reports posted here, with very long queues and the oft repeated "no quiet walk on days", and have low attendance.
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Whoa there goosey...
Attendance does not equal income, when the vast majority of attendees are cheap season pass holders, flogging them to death in a poor economic situation.
You are skint, no fancy holiday, so flog the season pass to death and take butties because the food is crap and expensive.
All those queues, all those staff, not much actual fresh income.
I bet the actual spend per head has gone through the floor in the last couple of years.
 
With the visitor figures, it may be interesting to know how much of this is passholders rather than day tickets.

With the spend on retail, food and beverage, it'd be interesting to see what profits they're getting and how much passholder discount this.

This would obviously have an impact on the profits and with the parks relying on secondary spend for passholders, this may have an impact on profits and attendance figures.

The tightening of RAP has surely had an impact on this as well as people who may have come spontaneously may not be able to come as RAP slots gets booked up very quickly. I acknowledge that we are in a transition period with criteria, the pre-booking system etc. which in a few years, this would've bedded in with the issues reducing.

If Merlin are to keep improving their parks, they need to listen to their customers with their feedback and incentivise secondary spend including perks. There's a lot they could do and I'd say now is the opportunity to push through.

With the Merlin passes being very easy to get and there being a Merlin monopoly, this does mean that it isn't just enthusiasts using these, it's the general public too.

It also makes it very easy for people to become enthusiasts with the Merlin passes with there being quite a few "Merlin Enthusiasts" around and on social media who haven't been to parks outside of Alton, Thorpe, Legoland and Chessie. It's not necessarily a bad thing, it's that there's loads of amazing theme parks both in the UK and worldwide outside of Merlin.

I acknowledge that the Merlin passes do make the parks so much more accessible for both enthusiasts and the general public and that is a fantastic thing for both this hobby and in general.
 
rob666 said:
Whoa there goosey...
Attendance does not equal income, when the vast majority of attendees are cheap season pass holders, flogging them to death in a poor economic situation.
You are skint, no fancy holiday, so flog the season pass to death and take butties because the food is crap and expensive.
All those queues, all those staff, not much actual fresh income.
I bet the actual spend per head has gone through the floor in the last couple of years.
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I never said it did! @Matt N stated that attendance was low, that's what I was querying.
 
MaxPower said:
Merlin are taking a leaf out of the Six Flags race to the bottom playbook, it hasn't worked for Six Flags and I doubt it'll work for Merlin.

Cheap passes might get the numbers in but it's not a good long term strategy.
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It might make more sense if they were actually good at encouraging guest spend in terms of food and bev, retail or shows/events. But they aren’t, they’re garbage.

All the lazy terrible things that annoy guests, car parks, fast pass and games stalls however they’re superb at.

The financialsation of theme parks is complete. What should we expect when they’re owned by companies like blackrock and they’ve even sold the land from under them.

I’m not expecting meaningful change anytime soon sadly. Is the park better than it it was in the 90s?…not really
 
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Living 4hrs away its not worthy of a trip what with the short opening hours and closed rides/attractions.. I have not been once this year and and considering scrapping my scarefest visit. Ok they may be struggling but still cannot see they are putting of visits with cut backs. Still no Hex is shameful.
 
Ash said:
Is the park better than it it was in the 90s?…not really
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That’s the crux of it isn’t it. Other than Mandril my son is essentially going on the same rides I did at CWOA when I was his age 30 years ago! Seems crazy.

AT has a bit more… it also has a bit less but probably better than 1994 overall except reliability.

TP and Lego seem like they’ve had more improvement in that time frame.
 
Skyscraper said:
16,000 on park today I believe, and it shows.
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I’m here today for the garden tour and we didn’t manage a single ride.
Planned to arrive at 10 but an incident on the drive caused us to park at 11:30

Then in the park for 12:15

All the meaningful attractions were 90 mins which makes it too tight for the 1:45 tour check in.

There might only be 16,000 but I stand by my earlier comment.
16,000 might as well be 30,000 as everyone gravitates to the same 7 rides

Speaking of hex above - the staff member assisting the main tour guide said that internally Hex has a confirmed opening date now but he can’t confirm the date.
So, unless more unexpected happens , I assume scarefest as we all said
 
Enchanted Village & Stargazing pods are also built on former parking space. Go back ten years or so and 16k wasn't a particularly busy day, now the wheels have well and truly fallen off by the time they reach those sorts of numbers. That's the point I was getting at yesterday - 16k today feels as busy as 20k did ten years ago, which makes people less likely to return as bad experiences are more common.
 
John said:
Enchanted Village & Stargazing pods are also built on former parking space. Go back ten years or so and 16k wasn't a particularly busy day, now the wheels have well and truly fallen off by the time they reach those sorts of numbers. That's the point I was getting at yesterday - 16k today feels as busy as 20k did ten years ago, which makes people less likely to return as bad experiences are more common.
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You see this makes no sense to me because 10 years ago we didn’t have wicker man which is a decent capacity coaster so how did the park cope better back then. I can’t recall the lineup being much different except for some flat rides
 
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