[2024] Nemesis Reborn: Construction and Speculation

[Skyscraper]

I just wanted to say, I loved the effort ATR went to last night with the post-fireworks video and then, following walking up to Forbidden Valley, seeing all the things they had quickly done for the last 2 hours of its operation. Fantastic.

The only negative was that they closed the queue way earlier than was necessary. Frankly I was lucky to get a ride - and we joined at 8.05pm.

It was well publicised that the queue would close early if it reached capacity. They needed it empty by a certain time.

 

[ChristmasPud]

Reading the last few (very painful) pages, you would think Intamin are coming to rebuild the ride and it's going to be named Phalanx: John Dalton's Revenge

At this point, the Phalanx is clearly for marketing purposes to create hype. Looking at social media, it's working already!

Given the park is covered with the Phalanx logo far more than Nemesis and all emphasis is on Phalanx, you would be forgiven for thinking the ride is going to be called Nemesis: Phalanx !

I hope for better themed features and sounds around the ride, and build on the great scrapyard /ancient quarry look.

 

[AstroDan]

It was well publicised that the queue would close early if it reached capacity. They needed it empty by a certain time.

I am well aware what was publicised.

They closed the queue at 8.05pm stating it was "at capacity", and it was actually a 50 minute queue. I do not want to get into a debate about it here (as it was a good evening) as I understand it was to be available for 10pm due to the last ride. As it was, the ride was clear of regular guests 50 minutes before the last train was sent.

I think they were so unfamiliar with a full queue line on Nemesis, that they assumed the queue was vastly longer than it was.

 

[Poisson]

I quite like this Phalanx marketing. It's a clever way to draw up interest throughout 2023 and into 2024.

I cannot see Nemesis having any major thematic changes. It's an established IP. The Phalanx stuff simply creates hype, enhances the story and links with Sub-Terra and Nemesis lore. In 2024 Nemesis will most likely be close to the original, with some themed uniforms, there might be some Phalanx references dotted around but I doubt it will be anything more than that (a bit like Ministry of Joy in XS). Reading the last few (very painful) pages, you would think Intamin are coming to rebuild the ride and it's going to be named Phalanx: John Dalton's Revenge

At this point, the Phalanx is clearly for marketing purposes to create hype. Looking at social media, it's working already!

Clearly KumbaK are coming to build trains for the replacement 3rd hand SLC they're replacing Nemesis with

With the main queue closing etc, I noticed at the weekend the lift needed to be manually restarted by a host at least twice (not a phone removal or anything, it died a death, waited a couple of mins and then the host reset it, klaxon and it went) plus it has been having the issue with it stopping half way in to the station and refusing to move, plus the kickers are knackered before the lift. I think part of it might have been fear it'd break itself and need attention before 10

 

[IDB]

Frankly I was lucky to get a ride - and we joined at 8.05pm.

Was there any reverse queue jumping taking place? With people actually trying to get further away from the front to try and get one of the last rides.

 

[Steve74]

Was there any reverse queue jumping taking place? With people actually trying to get further away from the front to try and get one of the last rides.

I spotted 3 people waiting in the disused vending machine 'building' (just before the extended queue bends back round to meet the main entrance).

 

[Josh]

Was there any reverse queue jumping taking place? With people actually trying to get further away from the front to try and get one of the last rides.

My group were the last to enter the queue, and towards the end there were a few people loitering to get closer to the last train!

The throughput last night was phenomenal, we joined the back of the queue (which was outside Sub Terra's entrance) as they closed it at 20:05, and with all extensions open we were in the station just before 21:00. If it wasn't for the front row queue being kept open till the end (which of course we waited for too) then they would have been clear of guests before 9

 

[Dobba]

The Phalanx are necessary because, especially if this is going to be a drawn out storyline promotion for the next 14-18 months, they'll need someone who can communicate the storyline reason for the downtime and even at 28 Nemesis isn't the most talkative.

 

[Max]

Feel like the fear that Phalanx is suddenly going to become a massive part of the theme is somewhat unfounded considering the track record with ride themes under Merlin. Even though Wicker Man probably has the most direct storytelling out of any Towers coaster not everything about the lore is spoonfed to you and there’s enough vagueness there to let you fill in the blanks yourself. The expanded lore has only ever really been a part of marketing campaigns so don’t see why that wouldn’t continue.

 

[John]

The one advantage to closing it absurdly early was that they neatly sidestepped the issue of having loads of people hanging round the entrance trying to be the last to join.

The ride was absolutely shifting through the queue - I was part of a smaller group that got to FV about 15min ahead of the main group and we also queued around 1hr, starting from near the old snack kiosk near the entrance to FV - phenomenal work from the ride crew get everyone on so quickly, the capacity will be sorely missed next season

The atmosphere both in the queue and after the ride closed was incredible - interaction between riders cresting the lift and those in the extended queue, then everyone waiting around to witness the last train at 10pm. Truly special

 

[Matt.GC]

I'm no purist and I accept that change needs to happen, I didn't mind the repaint they did of the station and track as an example. They'll need to make Nemesis slightly different to make it marketable and I get that. I'm concerned about the theme itself rather than the physical theming. This Phalanx stuff is more Sci-fi whereas I always considered Nemesis to have a horror theme.

I reject the idea that there needs to be some sort of elaborate "story" to draw interest in a rollercoaster. Nothing wrong with books, comics and on park Easter eggs to keep fans and geeks happy, who doesn't enjoy that stuff? But Forbidden Valley is a mysterious site where a monster burst out of the earth and destroyed everything. Guests would always enter, see the weird standing stones, carnage everywhere, a giant monster, and an impressive looking terrain coaster roaring in and out of tunnels in a rock pit filled with blood. Job done, story told, immersion achieved. Want more? Buy the book.

This video is what I always associated with the loose theme of Nemesis (1:10 to 4:10, you'll have to excuse the inclusion of Batman the ride as Nemesis wasn't open at the time of filming). As you can see, no armoured vehicles, no helicopters, no guns, no secret organisations, no copy and paste cartoonishly sinister blokes. Just a legend of a mysterious site with a life form beneath it. It's simple and effective and doesn't need anything else. Tell me this isn't preferable to all this Phalanx stuff?
From: https://youtu.be/F_euoQP8CvM


Besides, don't those people in boiler suits look strikingly similar to those of the original Oblivion theme? X Sector is the parks mysterious organisation/sci-fi area. With a Dark Forest, a Gloomy Wood a Haunted Hollow and a ride themed to a haunted tree branch I think the park is starting to feel like it's either being taken over by creepy trees or sinister Sci-fi organisations. Oblivion and X Sector were themselves victims of shoehorned in "Ministry of Joy" stuff with silly attempts to explain why they're in the same area as the Smiler, when the latter probably would have fit in just fine without the need to provide a "rational explanation" (excuse the pun).

Sometimes, as is the case with Nemesis, saying less is saying more. Nemesis, Air and Thirteen have always left their themes open ended. They have a premise to justify why they exist, you make up the rest. It's one of the genius things I've always liked about Wardley and his designs.

But if this nonsense is the price we have to pay for Nemesis to live on, then so be it I guess. Outside of building hype and putting on a good event last night (which could have been done with the original theme, although I suspect that Einstein looking bloke from the video wouldn't be around to lend his services 28 years later), I don't see why these military people need to be shoehorned in to the theme of Nemesis. For all we know, I could have just wasted my time writing this and come 2024, the shouty people with body armour and boiler suits will either be gone or banished to the NST building.

 

[Matt N]

In my defence, I might be somewhat biased by the fact that I never did Nemesis in 1994. I can certainly imagine that the ride's theme may have looked different and hit differently back then; I can only judge it in its 2022 form and compared to other Alton Towers and UK Merlin rides in 2022.

Also, I'm not saying that every coaster needs to explicitly tell you a story. I get that some rides don't suit that, and that's all well and good. I simply meant that I feel that some more little details theming-wise in the queue and area would not go amiss on Nemesis, in my view. If viewing the ride solely through the lens of a themed attraction (I appreciate it's a little different in reality), I can definitely see room for improvement in how the theme is conveyed to the first time rider.

I apologise if that's controversial; if I'm wrong in anything I say, then I'll happily shut up.
P.S. On a side note, is the professor character in that Nemesis promo video the same actor who played Mr Morris in Friday Night Dinner? Or am I just seeing a resemblance that doesn’t exist?

 

[SMT_]

Regardless of the back story, the one thing that I hope remains is the rides soundtrack. Some may say it's dated, but in my opinion it's a masterpiece and conveys everything about the ride experience without having to say anything at all. No daft stories, just a dark, haunting piece of music with peaks and lows that ties in with the pit/monster perfectly.

 

[LLCorkscrew]

As a few have said, I hope that the Nemesis music remains, it really is a masterpiece, but I fear that's something that may change. They could record it again though with a live orchestra as long as it's not overdone.

If it isn't the ride profile itself (and why mess with near perfection), then it's got to be something aesthetic - the name is too iconic so it won't be that (and people would expect a different ride), the colour scheme is a potential, and/or enhanced theming.

 

[Matt.GC]

In my defence, I might be somewhat biased by the fact that I never did Nemesis in 1994. I can certainly imagine that the ride's theme may have looked different and hit differently back then; I can only judge it in its 2022 form and compared to other Alton Towers and UK Merlin rides in 2022.

Also, I'm not saying that every coaster needs to explicitly tell you a story. I get that some rides don't suit that, and that's all well and good. I simply meant that I feel that some more little details theming-wise in the queue and area would not go amiss on Nemesis, in my view. If viewing the ride solely through the lens of a themed attraction (I appreciate it's a little different in reality), I can definitely see room for improvement in how the theme is conveyed to the first time rider.

I apologise if that's controversial; if I'm wrong in anything I say, then I'll happily shut up.
P.S. On a side note, is the professor character in that Nemesis promo video the same actor who played Mr Morris in Friday Night Dinner? Or am I just seeing a resemblance that doesn’t exist?

I don't disagree with that. You've only ever known it hidden behind a shipping container with an armoured vehicle parked outside, without the blood rivers, massively overgrown with weeds and with a heavily damaged station façade.

I've seen people post on this forum that they never knew there were waterfalls in the first place (let alone ones that once ran red), never noticed the Mushroom tours bus or the camp under the station. The final corkscrew is almost hidden these days as well.

I'm not saying restore it 100% to how it was. If they want to add bells and whistles, alter a few things with the monster, alter the colour scheme and add some new stuff then I'm happy with that. That's what refurbishments do. But changing it from a mythical/local legend horror theme to a militaristic Sci-fi theme is something I find boring and unimaginative and ruins the theme of the ride. It would be like people with guns turning up at Wickerman or Thirteen to shoot the Beornan or the demons in the face. Or stereotypical pirates invading the Smiler.

Does the over zealousness to tell a story go too far and end up ruining what you set out to do? I was far happier when I thought the guy in the Oblivion queue line screens was just a Daniel Craig lookalike trying to creep you out before they tried to explain it and before they started putting unnecessary signs in the queue line for Enterprise.

Oh and your not wrong for having an opinion. That's all these things are Matt.

 

[Sauron97]

Besides, don't those people in boiler suits look strikingly similar to those of the original Oblivion theme? X Sector is the parks mysterious organisation/sci-fi area. With a Dark Forest, a Gloomy Wood a Haunted Hollow and a ride themed to a haunted tree branch I think the park is starting to feel like it's either being taken over by creepy trees or sinister Sci-fi organisations. Oblivion and X Sector were themselves victims of shoehorned in "Ministry of Joy" stuff with silly attempts to explain why they're in the same area as the Smiler, when the latter probably would have fit in just fine without the need to provide a "rational explanation" (excuse the pun).

Sometimes, as is the case with Nemesis, saying less is saying more. Nemesis, Air and Thirteen have always left their themes open ended. They have a premise to justify why they exist, you make up the rest. It's one of the genius things I've always liked about Wardley and his designs.

But if this nonsense is the price we have to pay for Nemesis to live on, then so be it I guess. Outside of building hype and putting on a good event last night (which could have been done with the original theme, although I suspect that Einstein looking bloke from the video wouldn't be around to lend his services 28 years later), I don't see why these military people need to be shoehorned in to the theme of Nemesis. For all we know, I could have just wasted my time writing this and come 2024, the shouty people with body armour and boiler suits will either be gone or banished to the NST building.

I agree with a lot of this, but I don't think the Ministry of joy brand went overboard though (Unless I'm missing something, the backstory never went any further than what was told in the pre show of the Sanctuary about 10 years ago). It's not like they created characters for it or spent hours coming up with building names and stories. If anything the ride was too incomplete and not expanded on enough during development stages. No washing room, no labatories, nothing. The queue line should of at least had actual props inside, rather than being a cattlepen in a concrete pit. The projection mapping is okay, when the projectors aren't knocked by the vibrations. But Smiler if anything needed more to it, and it still feels incomplete.

Also, I don't think they ruined the mystery with this Nemesis event, and if anything it's good for adding intrigue to the general public who have probably recently seen Nemesis on the news. The marketing teams are getting some great material out of these video series promotions too so it's good for the image of the park. They've got some great engagement on their socials. So long as they maintain the mystery I think it's fine and won't damage the image of Nemesis.

Does the over zealousness to tell a story go too far and end up ruining what you set out to do? I was far happier when I thought the guy in the Oblivion queue line screens was just a Daniel Craig lookalike trying to creep you out before they tried to explain it and before they started putting unnecessary signs in the queue line for Enterprise.

It does, and that's the weakness of a lot of American attractions and entertainment. Their culture allows for it more. Over the top, pompous, fake, feels like a story is being lectured to you (rather than letting your imagination run wild) . Seems to have gotten worse in the US, as The Simpsons was actually quite good in the 90s at satiring these kinds of aspects of American culture, and now even they are a parody of their former selves. A lot of American dark rides/ experience led rides take themselves way too seriously.

One of the benefits of UK culture is that we are a lot more gritty and treat anything over the top with a degree of cynicism. We are the country of David Brent, Monty Python, miserable weather etc. So having some ride that takes itself far too seriously isn't going to woo the British public in the same kind of way. We'd see straight through it and look at it as a bit naff. But our culture is also the reason we can have a ride like Nemesis with that extra thought and creativity put in to it.

 

[Trooper Looper]

I'm not saying Nemesis should fully go back to its original form, but id like to see some elements of it they could bring back, such as the track Colour, the Blood Warerfalls, and the Original Logo. Hope they keep the music as it is, Heck, it'd be a dream if they got Graham Smart (If he's still alive) back to make some new additional music for the queue in the forest bit.

I really hope all of the Phalanx stuff is just for promotion and will be ripped down the following year after it reopens. Its good for marketing, but not permanent theming. Nemesis mysterious and less is more element is what makes it so great!!

I would like them to add some more detail within the station, but nothing too drastic. If they do it all up to look like the creatures insides, how long will that last before people will start drawing inappropriate stuff on there? And the wall is very dark in there, so it sets the ambience really well inside. Still would like to see a light show when the trains dispatch like air.

 

[Matt N]

I'm not saying restore it 100% to how it was. If they want to add bells and whistles, alter a few things with the monster, alter the colour scheme and add some new stuff then I'm happy with that. That's what refurbishments do. But changing it from a mythical/local legend horror theme to a militaristic Sci-fi theme is something I find boring and unimaginative and ruins the theme of the ride. It would be like people with guns turning up at Wickerman or Thirteen to shoot the Beornan or the demons in the face. Or stereotypical pirates invading the Smiler.

Does the over zealousness to tell a story go too far and end up ruining what you set out to do? I was far happier when I thought the guy in the Oblivion queue line screens was just a Daniel Craig lookalike trying to creep you out before they tried to explain it and before they started putting unnecessary signs in the queue line for Enterprise.

I’m not saying that I’d necessarily support them adding a pre-show room and shoving the Phalanx right in your face. It works on some rides (like Wicker Man), but for some reason, I don’t see it working on Nemesis.

I was more on about them adding some minor thematic details in the queue and area to try and make it a little clearer what sort of theme they are going for. Not necessarily anything that tells an explicit narrative per se, but things that inexplicitly make the theme clear. There are plenty of ways to build a clear, cohesive theme/story without necessarily putting you in front of a pre-show and telling you a story, and that’s what I’m getting at.

If I were to focus on any part of the Nemesis theme, I’d focus more on the cult-type element of it than the Phalanx element of it. But to be honest, I’d support either theme being strengthened with the retrack.

If it reassures you, I think it’s more likely that the Phalanx stuff is building towards a return of Sub-Terra, and that they will still play quite a background role within Nemesis itself.

 

[QTXAdsy]

Or perhaps my theory is the with the plot hinting at corruption within Phalanx is that it is nothing more than a trojan horse for the Nemesis worshippers to make a shock return in which Sub Terra is where they'll lead guests to be sacrificed a la Wicker Man and FV might end up following it's original lore.

 

[Matt.GC]

I’m not saying that I’d necessarily support them adding a pre-show room and shoving the Phalanx right in your face. It works on some rides (like Wicker Man), but for some reason, I don’t see it working on Nemesis.

I was more on about them adding some minor thematic details in the queue and area to try and make it a little clearer what sort of theme they are going for. Not necessarily anything that tells an explicit narrative per se, but things that inexplicitly make the theme clear. There are plenty of ways to build a clear, cohesive theme/story without necessarily putting you in front of a pre-show and telling you a story, and that’s what I’m getting at.

If I were to focus on any part of the Nemesis theme, I’d focus more on the cult-type element of it than the Phalanx element of it. But to be honest, I’d support either theme being strengthened with the retrack.

If it reassures you, I think it’s more likely that the Phalanx stuff is building towards a return of Sub-Terra, and that they will still play quite a background role within Nemesis itself.

Yeah that's basically where I'm coming from. It was a lot easier when the pit was newly blasted and fresh. One season there's a grassy knoll with a Schwarzkopf shuttle loop in front of it, the next a disaster has struck with a monster emerging from beneath the surface. There's blood running around it, a bus has been dragged in, nearby buildings have been damaged.

I do forget some times that some of you have never experienced Nemesis as designed. I'm just hoping that what gets altered is not the overall theme, just more theming. I don't know, perhaps they could chuck a skeleton back in that metal cage by the stall turn like they used to at Scarefest to make it feel like the villagers used to use sacrifices to the monster? Surely there's a specialist in closed water systems somewhere who can restore the blood waterfalls? Maybe that book key thingy makes an appearance as an Easter egg? Maybe some building ruins around the top of the pit? It's essential that they cut back all the foliage hiding the views of the final inversion, and indeed the weeds around the pit and anything else that hides parts of the ride from view.

I can understand why they're inventing some story and introducing guns and helicopters to gain people's attention, even if I think it could have been done in a different way. I want to grab people's attention to ride something so cherished. But I really don't want them to turn into a military organisation Vs a monster kind of theme on opening. In 2024, if these additions are shipping containers, lab tents, mini gun turrets and armed people shouting at you then I think it'll be a huge mistake.