• ℹ️ Heads up...

    This is a popular topic that is fast moving Guest - before posting, please ensure that you check out the first post in the topic for a quick reminder of guidelines, and importantly a summary of the known facts and information so far. Thanks.

[202X] Project Horizon (SW9?): Planning Approved

Is it a possibility that the building is still being built as specified, but the attraction inside has been revised, hence the delay? Alton Towers only got permission for the building, so in theory, they could build anything in there…

I do think that building Project Horizon, or some form of alternative new major attraction, is essential sooner rather than later. While I appreciate the issues with the likes of Hex and Skyride, and the need for flat rides, the earliest we’re likely to see Project Horizon open, 2026, will already represent 8 years since the last major new ride, Wicker Man, in 2018. If they delay much beyond 2026, I think you’re almost getting to the point where the park lineup might feel stale to the average visitor, which might send them into a guest figure rut similar to that experienced by Thorpe Park in the late 2010s. It’s all well and good that the park are refurbishing things, and I acknowledge the need for it and acknowledge the good job done on projects like The Curse at Alton Manor and Nemesis Reborn, but these are refurbishments of rides that have been at the park for years rather than anything meaningfully new. We still haven’t had a major new ride since 2018, and we haven’t had all that much in terms of new ride hardware full stop since then either (off the top of my head, the only new ride full stop since then has been Gangsta Granny). We are getting Project Ocean next year, which is a positive, but I think the park needs that shot in the arm of a new major investment sooner rather than later.
 
The reason I was suggesting Zamperla was of the low price they were going for Project Ocean as what many on here were suggesting which made them seem plausible. If that was just for the structure or including the ride and theming is unknown but you can see where some are coming from given its £12 million(?) Price tag.

Regardless, the debacle of TT2 will have made Merlin cold feet if they had planned to use Zamperla to design the coaster if that was planned from the start and now they are looking elsewhere for an alternate supplier.
 
Tom said:
It was O’Neil putting the brakes on.

Coming back to bite them via this year’s attendance crash, with no quick fix on the….horizon.
Click to expand...
What evidence do we have that O’Neil has “put the brakes on” anything? The park is still building Project Ocean for next year (indeed, the timing would suggest that it was designed under O’Neil’s tenure), so it’s not like he’s terminated all ride investment, and it seems like Chessington are still trying to progress their waterpark project as well (it’s currently stuck in planning purgatory…).
 
QTXAdsy said:
Who knows, if it true that Vekoma are working on Hex as we speak, not hard to think that maybe that they have struck a deal for a new ride?
Click to expand...
I think it depends on whether they’re still pursuing the original attraction that was pitched back in 2022 or whether they’re only using the building and now doing something different inside it.

If the former, I think it’s unlikely, as Horizon would likely have been strategised before Hex started having issues and Vekoma were called in to fix it. But if the latter, then I guess it’s not inconceivable that Vekoma could have been called upon to put an attraction in there…
 
Matt N said:
What evidence do we have that O’Neil has “put the brakes on” anything? The park is still building Project Ocean for next year (indeed, the timing would suggest that it was designed under O’Neil’s tenure), so it’s not like he’s terminated all ride investment, and it seems like Chessington are still trying to progress their waterpark project as well (it’s currently stuck in planning purgatory…).
Click to expand...
Been over it several times, he strongly implied he would not have signed off the capital for Nemesis Reborn or the lodges at Legoland because he sees the UK market as not worth those "risks". He did not have time to stop them, but seemingly has with Horizon.
 
Its likely that O’neil not being British, has no emotional connection to the uk parks.

He is likely being more business focused and looking at cost of return on investment.

If the UK parks see a generally low return on investment vs overseas assets the logical business decision will be to focus the investment on the high return markets.
 
Tom said:
Been over it several times, he strongly implied he would not have signed off the capital for Nemesis Reborn or the lodges at Legoland because he sees the UK market as not worth those "risks". He did not have time to stop them, but seemingly has with Horizon.
Click to expand...
I thought he only said that once in a lobbying piece to get the government to reduce VAT on hospitality?

Just because he said that in an editorial, I don't take that to mean that he actually meant it. As I said above, he's still seemingly allowing both Project Ocean and Chessington's waterpark to go ahead, and indeed, Project Ocean was designed during his tenure, so it doesn't seem as though he's halted capital investment into the UK parks by any stretch.
 
Here is the article, it’s behind a paywall so I have copied it.

The context, which is of course key - is the article is part of a campaign to push for tax breaks for investments, so it’s hardly surprising he would suggest businesses should pay less tax.

The investments of Nemesis and Woodland Lodges, as Merlin’s biggest UK investments in 2024 are referenced, but no where does it say he wouldn’t have green lit them.

The chief executive officer of Merlin Entertainments Ltd., which runs UK tourist attractions such as Madame Tussauds and Legoland, said it is becoming increasingly difficult to make big investments in the country.

An uncompetitive tax environment means the “tourist dollars seem to be moving elsewhere,” Scott O’Neil said in an interview, following resistance from the government to bring back a tax cut for visitors to the UK.

A recently-launched roller-coaster at its Alton Towers theme park and a Woodland Village attraction opening this spring at Legoland in Windsor were decisions made before O’Neil joined in November 2022. But he added: “It’s becoming increasingly difficult to place those bets in the UK.”

Merlin has more than 7,500 staff in the UK and has more than 30 attractions including the London Eye and Chessington World of Adventures. The company, which was taken private by Blackstone Inc., KIRKBI A/S and CPPIB in 2019, reported Monday that revenue rose 8% to £2.1 billion ($2.6 billion) in 2023, after it welcomed 62.1 million visitors.
The government should support domestic business as well as working to attract new global firms, O’Neil said. It comes after Universal Studios won the support of the government for a plan to open a new attraction in Bedford, north of London.

“Let’s just make sure that we’re taking care of our own,” said O’Neil. “If there are specific opportunities to speed up the planning process, let’s speed it up for everybody.”

O’Neil welcomed comments last week by Shadow Chancellor Rachel Reeves that the Labour Party plans to work more closely with business.

“We want to make sure this is the greatest place in the world to invest our pounds,” he said. “We want to be here. But some things have to move for that to happen.

“Because of the way we allocate capital, the bets we will make over the next five, six, seven years will depend on that partnership that Rachel Reeves is talking about.”
Click to expand...

 
AT86 said:
Here is the article, it’s behind a paywall so I have copied it.

The context, which is of course key - is the article is part of a campaign to push for tax breaks for investments, so it’s hardly surprising he would suggest businesses should pay less tax.

The investments of Nemesis and Woodland Lodges, as Merlin’s biggest UK investments in 2024 are referenced, but no where does it say he wouldn’t have green lit them.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that AT86, much appreciated. It’s always good to debunk rumour.
 
We know Merlin parks work on a 4 year capex cycle so I wouldn’t at all be surprised to see PH in 2028.

2025 Project ocean & Galactica glow up
2026 X sector flat & Flying Theatre
2027 TWWDW re-theme & Mutiny Bay Flat
2028 PH opens and Spinball removed
 
Ash said:
Spinball removed
Click to expand...
hasn't it had a new computer last year, I under stand why it may get removed as it is quite a low capacity ride in the best circumstances and the area could be better done up if they were to incorporate the plot the hospitality suet is sat on into a new land with a flat and a ride. but it would be strange to invest in a new computer for just 4-5 years down the line remove the ride
 
I think they would struggle to get permission to replace spinball in that location with another coaster so it probably stays a while longer
 
I was under the impression they have purchased 3 flat rides and will be installing them next season to market them as a trio? I bluming hope so otherwise we’re in for a long old ride until we get a new rollercoaster or any progress on the other lands/areas otherwise with the timelines stated above people will be packing there bags and flocking to universal.

I didn’t agree with there tax rule statement and there views to invest, yes it has an impact but if you build and invest well people will come? Otherwise universal wouldn’t bother, otherwise people wouldn’t travel all the way to AT. Invest well, provide a good experience for value then people will come.

Anyway I feel they need to get there skates and entice people to the park before it falls down a slippery slope of no future investments and down sizing like Covid. Having said all that since Bianca arrived there has been many great changes!


I have more faith with the Johns & Bianca than I do with Merlin.
 
QTXAdsy said:
With how things have gone quiet with Project Horizon, I'm starting to believe that Zamperla were indeed planned for the manufacturer but Merlin, and likely several other theme park companies, held off for a proposed 2025 date to see how they would get on with their refit of Top Thrill 2.
Click to expand...

This feels like a hell of a leap. The extremes of engineering required for TT2 will obviously be nothing like what they would be doing in a small shed here, which would be much more like the things they have been doing for years.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top