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Coronavirus

Coronavirus - The Poll

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Apparently Boris is now under pressure from quite a few Conservative MPs to reduce the distance to 1.5m or 1m in order to save jobs, so I think what the government is trying to do is strike a compromise between the economy and lives. Trying to protect either one of those things too rigorously would lead to dangerous consequences, so I think the government is trying to protect both simultaneously, and to be honest, I think that’s a perfectly good strategy to go with, personally.

With regards to Dominic Cummings and people breaking the rules; the government will have factored in a certain percentage of rule breakers into their scientific modelling, and with the Dominic Cummings situation, I’m reminded of a phrase I was often told as a child which I think people should probably obey; “do as I say, not as I do”.
 
Matt N said:
with the Dominic Cummings situation, I’m reminded of a phrase I was often told as a child which I think people should probably obey; “do as I say, not as I do”.
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What utter tosh.

People in government ought to be setting an example for people.

People who helped to decide the rules should absolutely be willing to uphold them.

If people in government aren't willing to follow *their own rules* they shouldn't just be sacked. They should be made an example of. Hoisted on their own petard. Humiliated and cast aside. That is what being held accountable means.

But this is exactly the problem. The government treats the electorate like dim-witted children. Exactly like the example you have just given.

It is utterly infuriating, utterly sickening. If sheep are just going to accept that it's one set of rules for the elite and another for the plebs then let's just throw in the towel and have a dictatorship.

Wow.
 
D4n said:
What utter tosh.

People in government ought to be setting an example for people.

People who helped to decide the rules should absolutely be willing to uphold them.

If people in government aren't willing to follow *their own rules* they shouldn't just be sacked. They should be made an example of. Hoisted on their own petard. Humiliated and cast aside. That is what being held accountable means.

But this is exactly the problem. The government treats the electorate like dim-witted children. Exactly like the example you have just given.

It is utterly infuriating, utterly sickening. If sheep are just going to accept that it's one set of rules for the elite and another for the plebs then let's just throw in the towel and have a dictatorship.

Wow.
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Well, admittedly I perhaps didn’t use the best example, and I perhaps didn’t phrase my response the best, but my point is; I put my full trust in the government to do what’s right. They clearly feel that Dominic Cummings did nothing wrong, so I put my faith in their opinion. I’m not going to judge what the government chose to do, as they were clearly put in charge for a reason. They know what they’re doing, so why should I not trust them, as they are my leaders? And I say this as someone who is not a Conservative supporter by any means.

Also, I’m admittedly still not convinced that he necessarily did anything wrong, as the government has insisted that his travel was down to childcare-related reasons, and they said that travel is allowed in exceptional circumstances. Besides, if what I’ve heard is true, he likely had a large part in devising the rules; why would he choose to break the rules he himself devised if he didn’t have a very good reason to?
 
Sorry for double posting, but on a different note to Mr Cummings’ conduct, there is now a theory gaining ground that exposure & immunity to previous coronaviruses, such as the ones caused by the common cold, could mean that the population has greater herd immunity than previously thought: https://www.timesofisrael.com/scien...esis-that-cross-immunity-could-slow-pandemic/

This would explain why many countries that have eased measures for some time (in some cases, quite substantially) have not seen the huge resurgence in cases that some expected.
 
How many other parents were in a situation where one was ill and the other concerned about spreading it or working versus looking after the kids?

Millions. Yet how many drove across the country to... Well, not have their children cared for as they apparently still kept isolated anyway? Then were well enough to pop up and down the country or do a 30 mile drive to TEST HIS VISION. I don't think people tend to protect their children by putting them in more danger.

He broke the rules because he KNEW he wouldn't suffer the consequences. Because of whatever he has on Boris and co. It's disgusting that people got fined for doing similar transgressions and yet this guy doesn't? He's only an aide as well, but no man is above the law, otherwise the law loses all meaning.

If you always trust the people in charge that is an utterly stupid way to live. People make dumb decisions. My manager could suggest one thing, which I go "hang on that's really stupid", or hell I could do the same and one of the workers thinks the same thing. So if it goes wrong and someone gets injured or killed you have to live with not challenging the decision.

Just because a person is in charge, doesn't mean they know what they're doing.
 
Matt N said:
I put my full trust in the government to do what’s right. They clearly feel that Dominic Cummings did nothing wrong, so I put my faith in their opinion. I’m not going to judge what the government chose to do, as they were clearly put in charge for a reason. They know what they’re doing, so why should I not trust them, as they are my leaders? And I say this as someone who is not a Conservative supporter by any means.
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Oh, mate.
 
imanautie said:
Your putting trust in a government when the government don't even trust them.

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Why wouldn't the government trust themselves? They will surely always have a lot of evidence and the wellbeing of their constituents in mind whenever they make a decision.
 
Matt N said:
Why wouldn't the government trust themselves? They will surely always have a lot of evidence and the wellbeing of their constituents in mind whenever they make a decision.
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They ignore their own advice and have shown they care more about money then doing the right thing.

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Here in Wales I’m glad we haven’t gone mad and eased everything yet. We can only travel 5 miles to see loved ones. Non essential shops still haven’t opened and looks like it will be another 3-4 weeks for them. I honestly don’t mind this way going forward actually sticking to the science and doing what’s right.
 
Government - "We follow the science!"

SAGE - "SOME of our scientists say it's too early to reduce lockdown, but then this is not an exact science and there will always be differences of opinion. The general consensus from our members though is that measures can be slowly reduced."

The press - "The science says it's too early to reduce lockdown."

People with a political axe to grind - "Waaaaaaaa"
 
pluk said:
Government - "We follow the science!"

SAGE - "SOME of our scientists say it's too early to reduce lockdown, but then this is not an exact science and there will always be differences of opinion. The general consensus from our members though is that measures can be slowly reduced."

The press - "The science says it's too early to reduce lockdown."

People with a political axe to grind - "Waaaaaaaa"
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As long as the R number doesn’t go above 1 for any extended period and the numbers of cases are manageable for the NHS, then I fully support any easing of measures. As much as every life that can be saved is incredibly important, the economy does need a bit of a lifeline too, in my opinion. Not to mention that locking people in for months on end has other consequences on wellbeing and health that could cause extra unneeded NHS strain.

Thus far, most countries easing measures have not seen a huge resurgence in cases, and their numbers are still dropping. For example, France has eased its lockdown measures for 3 weeks now and numbers are still dropping. Germany is the same, but for an even longer period of time (some measures have been eased for nearly 2 months now). Cases in Italy and Spain continue to drop, even as measures are eased. I don’t see why the UK wouldn’t be the same provided we stick to the rules and keep our distance, which the vast majority of Britons are.

In my opinion, it’s far from a given that we will have a second wave. I don’t think we will; I think we should keep a little hope.
 
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You have to look at HOW these other countries are reducing the lockdown though. As well as looking at the death numbers in comparison. Are we telling people they MUST wear masks in certain areas? How does this follow the government's own level 1-5 plan? Seems we've jumped from 4 to 1 rather quickly given their timeframes.

It doesn't make much sense given we were 2/3 behind everyone else is the first place.

There'll be a second spike because we have a nation of idiots. Numerous mass gatherings not only generally but over VE day and now addition of protests to add a voice to the events currently going on in America (good cause, but it's still a mass gathering). My sense is that it will all add up in a few weeks when our numbers don't drop in line with those across the pond.

The strange desperation to go "back to normal" is just as dangerous an ideal when we don't have an actual vaccination in place. Especially for those of us living with vulnerable people.
 
Apparently we’re actually moving to Level 3 of the lockdown. Level 2 is minimal social distancing measures, which will be applied when the number of COVID-19 cases in Britain is small and can be controlled by contact tracing and testing, with no sustained community transmission. Level 1 is where there is only international monitoring with no social distancing whatsoever, and that occurs when there are no known COVID-19 cases in Britain.
 
We need to keep up with the distancing rules. Unfortunately lots of people are listening to sound bites and not looking at the data and science.

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