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Coronavirus
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imanautie
TS Member
Towards the start of the pandemic there were 3 main groups
* Those that don't care so didn't put in any effort into doing the right thing
* Those who had literally no choice but to do the right thing
* Those who wanted to do the right thing
Now it's
* Those who have no choice
* Those who want to do the right thing. But are now struggling to do so (and those who now just can't)
* The same never gave a crap group
* A group who's gone "screw it I'm doing a Cummings"
I don't think there's a single approach that covers all 4 groups.
* Those that don't care so didn't put in any effort into doing the right thing
* Those who had literally no choice but to do the right thing
* Those who wanted to do the right thing
Now it's
* Those who have no choice
* Those who want to do the right thing. But are now struggling to do so (and those who now just can't)
* The same never gave a crap group
* A group who's gone "screw it I'm doing a Cummings"
I don't think there's a single approach that covers all 4 groups.
jon81uk
TS Member
The uni I work at is doing in-person tutorials in very socially distanced, mask-wearing, classes of up to 15 people, but students also had the choice to do 100% online. So far it does seem like a lot of students have chosen to stay at home.
Although of course subjects that need lab work will be different.
So far it seems like the outbreaks are due to the accommodation and students mixing there, not in classes. Also there seems to be many students mixing outside of their new household, or making large gatherings then wondering why its gone wrong.
Even if all teaching is online, how many would have still moved to new accommodation anyway just to get out of their parents house, or try to experience something new? Its possible that even with all teaching online there could still been outbreaks with students moving to their accommodation etc.
Jonathan
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Thanks for the clarification there. I did suspect I'd got something wrong, but wasn't too sure exactly what. I think one thing that's fairly clear is the student mentality is something that's pretty difficult to break.
jon81uk
TS Member
Oh I don't think you were wrong. Many universities could have been clearer about how much teaching is online this year and how little is face-to-face. But I also think some universities deliberately weren't clear as they wanted the halls income. But also I think some students would have travelled no matter what.
Also I think there is still definitely a difference between London (where I am) and the north for some reason.
James
TS Founding Member
Full breakdown of new restrictions;
What the hell is classed as a 'substantial meal'?! What's 'substantial' to one person could be a feast to another. Got to love the ambiguity in these 'rules'.
Completely agree. These local lockdowns and the new teir system (for England) is too much of a middle ground that doesn't particularly achieve anything apart from cause more upset.
The government are being very careful to tiptoe around closing the economy entirely, or to leave people to it and allow cases/death rates to rise. Really they need to do one of those things, or we'll be in the current situation for a long time.
I'm personally in favour of having everything back to 'normal', more focus on proper use of PPE and hygiene, ensuring businesses do what they can to prevent spread and scaling the NHS to cope with the demand.
I've been in a local lockdown for nearly 4 weeks now (in Wales) and the number per 100,000 has risen, not decreased, despite our politicians painting local lockdown as the answer to minimising the spread. It's frustrating and no one seems to be holding the government and devolved administrations responsible for the shambles this whole thing has been.
Jonathan
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If I remember viewing the figures correctly, all (or almost all) areas that have had local lockdowns have seen cases per 100,000 rise - some by a massive amount. Of course, we need to take into account the time between infection and diagnosis, but even with that, it's suggesting to me that local lockdowns aren't really working as intended. I'm honestly not sure what to suggest that would be better, as any proposal is just shot down by the other side without thinking things through properly. I can understand the idea behind a 'circuit-breaker' lockdown, but given the evidence from the local ones, I have my doubts that it'd work.
One of my greatest frustrations at the moment is the amount of cash we're handling at work. It's less than before the pandemic, don't get me wrong, but it's still more than I'd like. I'm essentially sanitising my hands after every cash transaction, which I think is justified given that recent studies are showing that the virus can live on cash and other hard surfaces for 28 DAYS! I'm probably noticing it more due to the amount of hand sanitiser I'm getting through, which is leaving my hands sticker than something I can't say because this thread isn't in the Tavern.
I'd like to go completely cashless, but there's no way Sainsbury's would ever do it, as there are still a lot of people who can't/won't use cash-free methods. Even with encouraging people to pay by card as much as possible, there's only so much we can do. Encouraging greater use of face coverings is a start, and focusing on hygiene will also help.
Regarding face coverings on a personal level...I'm getting used to it now I have to wear one when at work, though I still hate it & feel uncomfortable with one on. It's especially worse when it gets warm & sweaty under there. Yuck. I've found styles that do work for me, though I could do with getting some more at some point.
One of my greatest frustrations at the moment is the amount of cash we're handling at work. It's less than before the pandemic, don't get me wrong, but it's still more than I'd like. I'm essentially sanitising my hands after every cash transaction, which I think is justified given that recent studies are showing that the virus can live on cash and other hard surfaces for 28 DAYS! I'm probably noticing it more due to the amount of hand sanitiser I'm getting through, which is leaving my hands sticker than something I can't say because this thread isn't in the Tavern.
I'd like to go completely cashless, but there's no way Sainsbury's would ever do it, as there are still a lot of people who can't/won't use cash-free methods. Even with encouraging people to pay by card as much as possible, there's only so much we can do. Encouraging greater use of face coverings is a start, and focusing on hygiene will also help.Regarding face coverings on a personal level...I'm getting used to it now I have to wear one when at work, though I still hate it & feel uncomfortable with one on. It's especially worse when it gets warm & sweaty under there. Yuck. I've found styles that do work for me, though I could do with getting some more at some point.
delta79
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Warm and sweaty under the mask. I feel the same, its horrid.
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Jonathan
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Not nice, is it? I really feel for those working in the medical sector and other similar professions who HAVE to wear them all day long and can't take them off at all.
James
TS Founding Member
I have to wear one for 8 hours a day and I find it kills my ears more than anything. I tend to change to a new mask when the sweaty feeling comes. I hate wearing them, however I would be surprised to find anyone who enjoys wearing masks.
Love it!
Love it!
Jonathan
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I struggle to wear them as when I've taken them off, I still feel as though I'm wearing them for a while afterwards, which makes me even more anxious.
imanautie
TS Member
Wait so I'm not the only person who feels phantom masks? I have that with some reusable fabric ones.
So how long do you think the three tier system will last until bojo has to admit it’s not worked just like local lockdowns?.
Obviously here in Wales it don’t affect us much at the moment but if we could change one thing I would personally like to see movement from England to Wales halted for a few weeks. Here in South Wales we cannot leave our local area without reasonable excuse but people can come from high infection rate areas of England without an issue so I honestly feel stopping movement for a few weeks unless essential would help to an extent.
Obviously here in Wales it don’t affect us much at the moment but if we could change one thing I would personally like to see movement from England to Wales halted for a few weeks. Here in South Wales we cannot leave our local area without reasonable excuse but people can come from high infection rate areas of England without an issue so I honestly feel stopping movement for a few weeks unless essential would help to an extent.
imanautie
TS Member
Theoretically it doesn't need to be removed ever just don't standardize restrictions to tier which by what sage and co have been saying seems like is already planned.
I have to wear mask in work, have done since I returned in June. Despite changing them every couple of hours or more during the hot spells over summer (which was deeply unpleasant), I've still managed to get a bacterial infection on my skin, which at one point spread to the ear. Quite a few people I work with have had the same issue.
And despite being a legal requirement now, I would say 90% of staff in my local ASDA don't wear them. That is a lot of exempt people, which given how a couple of weeks ago (the day after they announced they were having 'Covid Marshalls' on the door, they were refusing entry to anyone without a mask, regardless of exemptions. They also refused entry to anyone who didn't use the hand sanitiser and also anyone under 18, unless they were with somebody over 18, and then only one for one, so anybody with more than one child was stuffed. That lasted a day and a half, and since then there has been nobody on the door and back to what it was previously.
But how could you even begin to police something like movement over the border? Up here in the North at least, even without consulting a map I can think of about 10 or more routes fairly local, where I can enter Wales by car which would not take me anywhere near a major trunk route, other A road or busy B road, and that goes off the scale when walking. That simply would be impossible to police.
One of my routes in to Chester sometimes takes me in to Wales, back out, back in to Wales then back out again, and also the border at one point runs down the middle of a main road, with one side of the road in England, the other in Wales.
And despite being a legal requirement now, I would say 90% of staff in my local ASDA don't wear them. That is a lot of exempt people, which given how a couple of weeks ago (the day after they announced they were having 'Covid Marshalls' on the door, they were refusing entry to anyone without a mask, regardless of exemptions. They also refused entry to anyone who didn't use the hand sanitiser and also anyone under 18, unless they were with somebody over 18, and then only one for one, so anybody with more than one child was stuffed. That lasted a day and a half, and since then there has been nobody on the door and back to what it was previously.
But how could you even begin to police something like movement over the border? Up here in the North at least, even without consulting a map I can think of about 10 or more routes fairly local, where I can enter Wales by car which would not take me anywhere near a major trunk route, other A road or busy B road, and that goes off the scale when walking. That simply would be impossible to police.
One of my routes in to Chester sometimes takes me in to Wales, back out, back in to Wales then back out again, and also the border at one point runs down the middle of a main road, with one side of the road in England, the other in Wales.
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pluk
TS Member
But just 'beefing up the NHS' is not a thing. With all the will in the world there is no way to do that, there are only so many trained medics and equipment available. We saw what happened elsewhere in the world where the healthcare systems were overwhelmed and it wasn't pretty, you end up not only with covid patients not being treated but others with unrelated illnesses having noone to treat them. I saw some of it from the inside last time, fortunately only on the periphery, where some things were close to the wire and it's not a place you want us to be I promise you.
Left unchecked we could easily go back there with rapid virus spread, hence measures to reduce (not eliminate as that's not practical or necessary) transmission rates.
The other side of it, the full lockdown is clearly not sustainable in the long term. It became a necessity last time as the virus was so widespread that a sharp drop was necessary and that was the way to achieve it. This time it's not, and shouldn't be if people can just take the advice.
It seems like a halfway house is exactly the place to be. The virus cannot be magiced away, the world cannot stop in the meantime, the health service can't be overwhelmed. It's a balancing act.
It seems like a lot of people don't like what we're being told to do, everyone seems to think they know better, but neither do they have any better ideas.
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