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Coronavirus

Coronavirus - The Poll

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Is this some sort of a joke from the government? Pack people in to an indoor theatre at 50% capacity, including having people sitting directly behind others, but do not allow outdoor football stadia to re-open at the 30% capacity that was being worked on by clubs?

I know there are other issues with sports events such as getting to and from the stadium but if they are going to allow people in to theatres then they could surely work up something. Especially for the lower league clubs who rely so much on ticket sales and match day revenue.
 
The Wales travel restrictions don’t work, they are simply done to appease the nationalists and keep them on board, cases are still rising in all areas.
In the mean time businesses in Llandudno and Conwy are going bust by the day.
Sunak effectively told them yesterday follow the same path as England or you won’t get the funding, Krankie knows this which is why she has toned down in the last few days, Scotland and Wales NEED England’s money or they go bust.
 
pluk said:
But just 'beefing up the NHS' is not a thing. With all the will in the world there is no way to do that, there are only so many trained medics and equipment available. We saw what happened elsewhere in the world where the healthcare systems were overwhelmed and it wasn't pretty, you end up not only with covid patients not being treated but others with unrelated illnesses having noone to treat them. I saw some of it from the inside last time, fortunately only on the periphery, where some things were close to the wire and it's not a place you want us to be I promise you.

Left unchecked we could easily go back there with rapid virus spread, hence measures to reduce (not eliminate as that's not practical or necessary) transmission rates.

The other side of it, the full lockdown is clearly not sustainable in the long term. It became a necessity last time as the virus was so widespread that a sharp drop was necessary and that was the way to achieve it. This time it's not, and shouldn't be if people can just take the advice.

It seems like a halfway house is exactly the place to be. The virus cannot be magiced away, the world cannot stop in the meantime, the health service can't be overwhelmed. It's a balancing act.

It seems like a lot of people don't like what we're being told to do, everyone seems to think they know better, but neither do they have any better ideas.
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Well, we will have to agree to disagree. I would beef up the NHS as much as 'possible'. In no way do I think that would save every life. There will be more lives lost in the short term. The nation and its people would just have to deal with it and understand that it's what's best for the country in the long-term. Like I said, the other option would be a complete lockdown for a few short weeks. Everyone stays at home and does not go out, at all. Only people allowed out are emergency services or absolutely critical to infrastructure workers (no transport, retail or anything like that). Anyone caught outside their home gets an auto 2 year prison sentence. This would pretty much eradicate it in this country and we just ban travel in/out of the country until the pandemic is over or vaccine programme completed. Everyone would be furloughed for the few weeks (add another 50 billion to the tab, or whatever). That's my opinion, and I'm sticking with it :)
 
From a scientific point of view, I think the next step should be a change of government. That'll test if terrible leadership is a significant contributing factor to covid spread.
 
Just checked the regulations for the new tiers and discovered that the restrictions on meeting other households also apply to people living in those areas, even if they travel outside the area.

For instance, if you live in Newcastle (tier 2) then even if you travel to somewhere in tier 1, you still can't meet others indoors. Likewise, if you live in Liverpool (tier 3) and travel outside of that area, you still can't meet any other household indoors or outdoors.

Quite how that will be enforced is anyone's guess, but I didn't realise that was actually the law just from watching the bulletins and the news.
 
However that is overridden if its for work or education.

Sent from my SM-J600FN using Tapatalk
 
Alsty said:
Just checked the regulations for the new tiers and discovered that the restrictions on meeting other households also apply to people living in those areas, even if they travel outside the area.

For instance, if you live in Newcastle (tier 2) then even if you travel to somewhere in tier 1, you still can't meet others indoors. Likewise, if you live in Liverpool (tier 3) and travel outside of that area, you still can't meet any other household indoors or outdoors.

Quite how that will be enforced is anyone's guess, but I didn't realise that was actually the law just from watching the bulletins and the news.
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Makes sense, otherwise people could just leave the areas for their indoor meetings. However you are right, it is totally unenforceable! It does not take a genius to work out that these new 'restrictions' will have a minimal impact on infections or the R rate. Can't help but feeling it is just delaying an inevitable circuit break of some sorts, yet the longer you delay that then the stricter it needs to be and the longer it is likely to go on for. And the other concern with a circuit break is what do you do if things do not get much better after 2 or 3 weeks? Keep it going until things do get significantly better and then have another gradual re-opening of the economy? Or admit defeat and accept the consequences?

The other option is to stick with the tiers, keep putting more places in to tiers 2 and 3 as things get worse and see where we end up at Christmas. Boris seems to think his tiers will allow for Christmas to be as close to normal as possible, which is amusing!

The govermnent certainly have made many mistakes, the worst of which being totally screwing up testing and not realising the schools and universities all returning in September would create huge demand. However I do not envy those having to make policy decision as every time it is pretty much a lose lose situation.
 
Rob said:
Is this some sort of a joke from the government? Pack people in to an indoor theatre at 50% capacity, including having people sitting directly behind others, but do not allow outdoor football stadia to re-open at the 30% capacity that was being worked on by clubs?

I know there are other issues with sports events such as getting to and from the stadium but if they are going to allow people in to theatres then they could surely work up something. Especially for the lower league clubs who rely so much on ticket sales and match day revenue.
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The Tories don't care much for going to watch football. They love a trip to the theatre though.

Don't expect them to apply logic to anything. They look after themselves and nobody else.
 
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Its easy to blame Bumbling Boris, but the truth is that nobody has a clue what the best action is.

Government, opposition, scientists - It is mostly guess work and nobody has an exit strategy - especially if any potential vaccine is not particularly effective in the long term.

And judging by the latest video posted on the BBC website - when you have idiots like these then there is no hope....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-54535481
 
BarryZola said:
Well, we will have to agree to disagree. I would beef up the NHS as much as 'possible'. In no way do I think that would save every life. There will be more lives lost in the short term. The nation and its people would just have to deal with it and understand that it's what's best for the country in the long-term. Like I said, the other option would be a complete lockdown for a few short weeks. Everyone stays at home and does not go out, at all. Only people allowed out are emergency services or absolutely critical to infrastructure workers (no transport, retail or anything like that). Anyone caught outside their home gets an auto 2 year prison sentence. This would pretty much eradicate it in this country and we just ban travel in/out of the country until the pandemic is over or vaccine programme completed. Everyone would be furloughed for the few weeks (add another 50 billion to the tab, or whatever). That's my opinion, and I'm sticking with it :)
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Spain and some other places I think did similar and China took it further with certain days you can leave the house or something.
But it was still permitted to go out to get food.

We had almost as strong restrictions back in April when some workplaces (mainly factories and warehouses) were open plus food retail but almost everything else shut down.
 
Though people seem to be praising Starmers statement yesterday, wasn't that one of the reasons for the first lockdown?
This dragged on for the best part of 3 months. More than enough time to get on top of things. In terms of track and trace, the tech was already there should they of wished to use it, but they knew better.

So all that worked out well didn't it, we are back to square one. And rather than admit they made mistakes, the Government blames everybody and everything else, which in turn we see people blaming others they perceive as being 'responsible' and so on and so on.

Also, why can't we worked together with the devolved nations? It seems rather than everyone getting together and coming up with a coherent plan, we see political point scoring and each of the leaders trying to outdo each other.

Well, no, because you would obviously give everyone a week to prepare. Didn't think I would have to spell out all of the details but if you have any other issues just ask
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I would hope that, and your original post about shutting everything down was tongue in cheek.
Giving people a weeks notice to stock up? Look what happened in March in the weeks leading up to the lockdown, even before it was announced. Panic buying, and giving people a week, there would be absolute anarchy in the shops and the supply chain would completely collapse, and of course, with nobody being allowed to work other than emergency personal, when the shops do finally reopen, they will still be empty.

If transport shuts too, how would these people get to work if they had no car?, if they had cars, how would they get petrol? certainly around here there are hardly any pay at pump stations
Society simply could not function if everything other than emergency services was shut down.
 
I'm being totally serious. It's not hard to have a supply of fuel available in each locality for the use of the emergency services. My local police/firestation has it's own permanent petrol pumps. Temporary pumping stations could easily be implemented in a short amount of time. No problem at all. The panic buying thing could easily be overcome too with various measures but the most simple one would be each household supplied with a single pass where you hand over the pass and then that's your one big shop to last you 2 weeks. Max limits in the stores on each item to stop ridiculous over-buying. It would take some planning but we're well capable of it. Have more faith. In WW2 we built harbours in the middle of the sea to help with the logistics of attacking Normandy. We could easily do what I've proposed.
 
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BarryZola said:
I'm being totally serious. It's not hard to have a supply of fuel available in each locality for the use of the emergency services. My local police/firestation has it's own permanent petrol pumps. Temporary pumping stations could easily be implemented in a short amount of time. No problem at all. The panic buying thing could easily be overcome too with various measures but the most simple one would be each household supplied with a single pass where you hand over the pass and then that's your one big shop to last you 2 weeks. Max limits in the stores on each item to stop ridiculous over-buying. It would take some planning but we're well capable of it. Have more faith. In WW2 we built harbours in the middle of the sea to help with the logistics of attacking Normandy. We could easily do what I've proposed.
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Whilst it sounds simple enough to implement, you forget one vital component: People. Sadly, when people go in to panic mode they become unpredictable. Panic buying would ensue regardless, probably even before there was any chance to even distribute these passes. Even those who had just done a weeks shop would go straight back out again. These passes would be a nice sought after commodity, you can see muggings going through the roof with people desperate to get more supllies.

Even if it was civilised, would the supply chain even cope with such a rush in demand for millions of two weeks shop in one hit? Remember, everyone's shopping patterns are completely different, from the massive weekly shops to a quick stop off on the way home from work to get a couple of bits every couple of days (which tends to be my method usually).

How would you also man those petrol pumps to stop the nasty germ ridden normal people using them? Army? you would have to impose martial law to do that, as armed forces have no powers (this includes military police) on civilians (except for those in the armed forces) outside of military establishments.

Also, I have seen videos from Liverpool last night as huge crowds gathering after pubs closed for the last time last night until whenever (except for Wetherspoons). Also shows police cars being attacked, and people suggesting it is only a matter of time before the city erupts into riots. This follows from what a work friend who lives in Liverpool said at the end of last week when rumours about this lockdown first surfaced (Ie Government leaking it to the press). He is 10 years older than me, and remember well the Toxteth Riots, and remembers the atmosphere leading up to when it all kicked off, he said the atmosphere there at this present time is pretty much as it was then. People are very very angry about what the Government is doing to the city (again) and they are prepared to let their anger be felt. It's just a matter of when, not if.
 
Vik said:
Whilst it sounds simple enough to implement, you forget one vital component: People. Sadly, when people go in to panic mode they become unpredictable. Panic buying would ensue regardless, probably even before there was any chance to even distribute these passes. Even those who had just done a weeks shop would go straight back out again. These passes would be a nice sought after commodity, you can see muggings going through the roof with people desperate to get more supllies.

Even if it was civilised, would the supply chain even cope with such a rush in demand for millions of two weeks shop in one hit? Remember, everyone's shopping patterns are completely different, from the massive weekly shops to a quick stop off on the way home from work to get a couple of bits every couple of days (which tends to be my method usually).

How would you also man those petrol pumps to stop the nasty germ ridden normal people using them? Army? you would have to impose martial law to do that, as armed forces have no powers (this includes military police) on civilians (except for those in the armed forces) outside of military establishments.

Also, I have seen videos from Liverpool last night as huge crowds gathering after pubs closed for the last time last night until whenever (except for Wetherspoons). Also shows police cars being attacked, and people suggesting it is only a matter of time before the city erupts into riots. This follows from what a work friend who lives in Liverpool said at the end of last week when rumours about this lockdown first surfaced (Ie Government leaking it to the press). He is 10 years older than me, and remember well the Toxteth Riots, and remembers the atmosphere leading up to when it all kicked off, he said the atmosphere there at this present time is pretty much as it was then. People are very very angry about what the Government is doing to the city (again) and they are prepared to let their anger be felt. It's just a matter of when, not if.
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Well petrol pumps are easy, just switch them off until a staff member is ready...
 
BarryZola said:
I'm being totally serious. It's not hard to have a supply of fuel available in each locality for the use of the emergency services. My local police/firestation has it's own permanent petrol pumps. Temporary pumping stations could easily be implemented in a short amount of time. No problem at all. The panic buying thing could easily be overcome too with various measures but the most simple one would be each household supplied with a single pass where you hand over the pass and then that's your one big shop to last you 2 weeks. Max limits in the stores on each item to stop ridiculous over-buying. It would take some planning but we're well capable of it. Have more faith. In WW2 we built harbours in the middle of the sea to help with the logistics of attacking Normandy. We could easily do what I've proposed.
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But you need to over-buy if you can't go to the shop again in weeks and our supply system isn't set up for that. Most supermarkets hold a few days worth of stock. It would take weeks/months to get the stock levels up, then people need to buy it and get it home (hard for those without cars).
Its far easier to just keep the supermarkets open as we had in April.
 
It would be for a couple of weeks. Enough food to survive for a couple of weeks. We're not talking being locked up for months here. Most people probably have enough food in their houses to survive a couple of weeks already, without having the luxury of doing another big shop on top of that.

I think peoples frustration at the moment is that people see no end to what's going on and their jobs and businesses are taking a severe beating without knowing what the future holds. Knowing that after one big national effort for a mere couple of weeks we can start to get back to normal much much quicker afterwards and being fully paid for that time whilst locked down I think you'd be surprised at how well people would put up with it. This circuit breaker that they've been discussing doesn't seem anywhere near restrictive enough to have a lasting effect to me. Even that would be another waste of time. Extreme measures are called for unfortunately. You don't have to agree with me, but those are my thoughts anyway.
 
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