Coronavirus

Discussion in 'Corner Coffee' started by Jb85, 14th Feb 2020.

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Coronavirus - The Poll

  1. Not had test

    48.4%
  2. Tested negative

    45.2%
  3. Tested positive

    6.5%
  1. Rob

    Rob TS Forum Team Team Member

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    It is very strange. Of course the possible links should be investigated, that is the right and proper thing to do. But correlation does not mean casuation. As @Alsty's post details, reported blood clots in the vaccinated population is lower than would be expected in the general population. So you could argue it the other way, the vaccine actually helps to prevent blood clots!! (It doesn't).

    I can't help but feel that it might be yet another political decision from some EU nations although I really hope not. Surely the absolute known benefits of the vaccine outweigh a very small and unknown risk?
     
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  2. Danza91

    Danza91 TowersStreet Member

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    This definitely comes across as a decision purely based on politics and not science. More lives will unnecessarily be lost, and more hardship for the EU's citizens will come from this.
     
  3. Rojo

    Rojo TowersStreet Member

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    Given the media are reporting signs of third wave starting in Italy (supposedly) this does seem baffling and more of a jab at AZ by the Governments involved (pun not intended ;)).

    Ultimately do you know increases the risks of bloodclots? Covid does! The appropriate bodies have stated the vaccine is safe and it will be constantly under review with the spotlight on it. Hopefully wastage isn't too much of an issue with the pausing of the vaccines?
     
  4. Dave

    Dave TS Founding Member

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    I mean that would be true if:

    1) The EU had made the decision, yet the EMA has said to continue using the vaccine

    2) You ignore all the none European countries also suspending the vaccine.

    I mean I know the news papers are throwing this at the EU but the EU has actually taken the same position as the UK regulators. Then again UK newspapers are basically right wing fiction so why are we surprised? Also remember AstraZenica is a Swiss company and production for EU markets is in the EU so they don’t see it as a UK vaccine or a UK issue.

    Vaccine hesitancy is more rife in Europe than the UK (we actually have a very compliant population when it comes to medical advice in general), you also have a lot of European countries heading into election years and unfortunately a lot of governments going a bit reactionary. I think France has been woeful in its vaccine strategy both with implementing it and the response to this issue, I am also very disappointed that the usually more level headed Germans have fallen down the same rabbit hole but what can you do?

    When you read the details the issue seems to be a few cases of venous sinus thrombosis in the young which is very rare, but I strongly doubt will be linked to the vaccine.

    And you won’t stop UK residents holidaying in Europe, the UK government will lose too much money from keeping travel closed for longer than they have to and Europe is pretty much the only viable destination for the majority of the country due to it being the same continent (we like to think we are not European in the UK but whether we are in the EU or not we haven’t had a tectonic shift in geography).
     
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  5. AT86

    AT86 TowersStreet Member

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    Thank goodness you are here to reply to such posts in a level headed and well rounded way. My replies would probably get me banned.
     
  6. Dave

    Dave TS Founding Member

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    Thanks

    I’m not actually surprised the newspapers are pushing this narrative, they have been suppressing the negative brexit news since January but chances are they can’t continue to do that so need a “it might be naff but it would be worse if we stayed” narrative even though vaccine procurement was never mandatory as part of the EU and this over reaction we are currently seeing is very much individual national governments.

    The best thing anyone can do for their sanity and knowledge about the world is never ever read a newspaper.
     
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  7. Benzin

    Benzin TowersStreet Member

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    Just don't read the news tends to be a good start these days.

    The anti-vax side of things is increasing. Which is far more concerning that 20 odd people in 10/11 million getting blood clots post vaccination.
     
  8. RoyJess

    RoyJess TowersStreet Member

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    Childbirth causes blood clots, I don't see the EU banning childbirth :rolleyes:
     
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  9. shakey

    shakey TowersStreet Member

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    Getting my jab on Friday, sooner than I thought I would. (I am 54)
     
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  10. delta79

    delta79 TowersStreet Member

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    You should see the juggernaut of vaccination systems barreling long. When there are vaccination centres push almost 1 thousand vaccinations a day. We are looking at around half a million vaccine delivered a day.
    It is slowing a bit for first time vaccination as the second vaccine shots are now being given.


    Sent from my SM-A217F using Tapatalk
     
  11. Dave

    Dave TS Founding Member

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    So digging deeper the situation seems to be 8 cases of VST in 1.8 million people vaccinated. Now theoretically the background incident rate for that type of clot would assume 1 person would suffer from it in a population of 1.8 million.

    However the data hasn’t yet accounted for confounders (such as the fact in general the population is much less active due to the pandemic and people are less likely to seek medical help). Also conincidence isn’t always uniform (so 8 people have a clot now but then you might go ages without another one so the average drops pretty quickly into the background noise). Add to the fact Covid has a huge clotting risk I’m still not sure why so many countries have suspended use of the vaccine. Sure it needs looking at but it doesn’t seem a big enough data set to cause a suspension.

    Still interesting.
     
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  12. BigT

    BigT TowersStreet Member

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    Well I’ve another theory for you since you didn’t like my last one.
    How about the drug companies lobbying governments against the only vaccine that’s not for profit.
     
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  13. Matt N

    Matt N TowersStreet Member

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    The only reason the vaccine has been halted in certain countries is because they have concerns about safety and blood clots.

    I appreciate that some of you are concerned about ulterior motives at play, but during a global health crisis, I don’t think anyone would want to score political points or trip up a company for their own gain. I’m sure that safety concerns are the number 1 reason behind this halting; besides, the countries involved say that the ban is likely to be temporary. I think they’d just like some more evidence, which I think is fair enough.

    I personally have full faith that AstraZeneca’s vaccine is completely safe, and I’m sure that all of the countries that are currently halting it will have the same level of faith within time. They’re only trying to protect their citizens.
     
  14. Dave

    Dave TS Founding Member

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    Unlikely, at the moment no other drug company can fill the gap created if they don’t use AZ and even if they were ruthless enough to not care about the deaths and allow the gap to exist until they have ramped up production by that point another 2 or 3 vaccines are coming online so they don’t gain down that route.

    The drug companies don’t need to make a huge profit off the Covid vaccines as they have what they want. mRNA technology went mainstream overnight after decades of testing and viral vector and protein vaccines got a huge boost in their data as well. Also regulators have quickly developed faster ways of approving vaccines that will likely stick around for decades now.

    Nearly all the countries pulling vaccines either already have a lot of vaccine hesitancy in the first place or are in an election year. This is a political problem, it’s just not related to brexit despite what the Daily Hate says.
     
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  15. pluk

    pluk TowersStreet Member

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    My wife (42) has had a message to book her vaccination due to being vulnerable. As far as we know she's not vulnerable or ill, with no underling health conditions. Very odd.
     
  16. Dave

    Dave TS Founding Member

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    A relative of mine had the same but when she rang the GP they said the doctor had decided she needed it. Only thing we could think of was years ago they were a bit overweight and the last weight the gp had put their BMI over the threshold of 30 (their BMI isn’t that high now but I suppose the gp wouldn’t know that).
     
  17. pluk

    pluk TowersStreet Member

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    The only thing we are thinking is my wife has had Arterial Fibrillation a couple of times where her heart goes out of rhythm for a short time but the rights itself. This is the first we've heard of her being at any increased risk though.

    If they were look at BMI in isolation I'd have had it before the pensioners!!
     
  18. GaryH

    GaryH TowersStreet Member

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    It’s like a pantomime...

    Europe want the AZ vaccine
    Oh no they don’t
    Oh yes they do
    It’s not safe
    They’re not sure, it’s political
    Now they want it again

    ... and in a further tantrum they are now threatening to cut off our supplies.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-56426446
     
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  19. Rob

    Rob TS Forum Team Team Member

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    I'm sure there is more to it, but on the face of it then it does sound like Ursula von der Leyen in particularaly unhappy at the speed of our vaccine rollout compared to theirs and want to slow us down. They want more AZ vaccine yet many EU nations are going agaisnt the EU regulator and suspending use of said vaccine!

    It is all one ginormous mess. Hopefully we have decent stockpiles of Pfizer vaccine so that people can have their second doses. It would be pretty unethical if the EU blocked export of Pfizer doses preventing people from getting their second jabs.
     
  20. BigT

    BigT TowersStreet Member

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