Coronavirus

[Dave]

You have made the cardinal sin that everyone seems to make on this subject. It's not just about whether you've been vaccinated or not. What about all the people abroad who haven't yet been that you could be potentially mixing with?

The Vaccine does not stop you getting Covid and therefore spreading it. In fact my understanding of it is that your chances of getting it are the exact same with or without the jab. The major difference comes in the fact you're clearly far more unlikely to be hospitalised after having the jab. That's why it is so important we all get one.

So to answer you it's not about keeping us all locked up. It's about keeping this thing under more control so we don't have to continue to live our lives like this.

You are actually making the same cardinal sin, making assumptions regarding the transmission risk of vaccinated people.

The actual answer is, we are not certain but the data suggests vaccination is reducing transmission, but not likely to zero.

The issue actually boils down to viral load, If the immune system gets an early go at shutting down viral replication it may not stop “infection” (which is simply defined as a pathogen being able to reach some reasonable level of replication), but it probably reduces viral load. Viral load is actually critical when it comes to transmission as the body has a whole host of indiscriminate protections against infection and if only a small proportion of viral particles enter the body these will likely prevent replication themselves. The more viral particles involved in initial contact the more likely replication takes hold. This is why health care professionals have a higher risk of severe disease than most, they do procedures that increase viral shedding (intubating a patient for example).

This is seen in many virus’s, for example a HIV positive person on medication can’t transmit the HIV virus, they still have it in their body and it’s replicating but it’s to such a low level that the viral load they have in their bodily fluids isn’t high enough to transmit to another person.

Vaccination rarely causes sterile immunity (because the long term response to vaccination is rarely antibody related and more often t-cell related), but it can have a massive impact on the ability for a virus to spread. Effectively you get the immune system to bring the R rate down instead of physical barriers (potentially, we need to see the data develop).

 

[RoyJess]

Jess has finally got her Jab booked for next week.

Looks like our GP surgery outsourced the vaccine priority to someone from outside the surgery. Unless you are an expert in Jess rare medical conditions or know her situation personally, it is very easy to over look her as a priority. It took us several calls and messages to them to find out why she was overlooked and to get her booked in

 

[Jonathan]

Jess has finally got her Jab booked for next week.

Looks like our GP surgery outsourced the vaccine priority to someone from outside the surgery. Unless you are an expert in Jess rare medical conditions or know her situation personally, it is very easy to over look her as a priority. It took us several calls and messages to them to find out why she was overlooked and to get her booked in

Wonderful news. At least you’ve got to the bottom of why Jess’ first vaccine appointment was taking so long to get sorted!

 

[Dave]

The solution is already existent , provide a negative PCR test. It would be lovely if testing could be made free for those who can’t be vaccinated but that simply will not happen , it wouldn’t be justifiable as a taxpayer cost , and it won’t be taken on by any private company .

Holidays and travel for the most part require some level of disposable income , so for the few months where vaccines aren’t available (remember the projections suggest everyone will have had a first dose by July and both by September) it’s going to be one of those things where there is an additional cost in the short term

When do you have the PCR test? Example:

I want to go to the cinema on Wednesday, it takes 24hrs to get the results. So I take the test on Tuesday but viral replication takes about 48hrs to show on a PCR test so that’s effectively telling me I was negative on Sunday.

Im then sat in the cinema happily shedding virus particles from the infection I caught on Monday.

Welcome to the window period of diagnostic testing. People need to realise population testing only stops asymptomatic spread, it won’t stop all spread.

In the next 12 months society needs to decide what level of death it is comfortable with, like it has with every other disease.

 

[spinba11]

Jess has finally got her Jab booked for next week.

Looks like our GP surgery outsourced the vaccine priority to someone from outside the surgery. Unless you are an expert in Jess rare medical conditions or know her situation personally, it is very easy to over look her as a priority. It took us several calls and messages to them to find out why she was overlooked and to get her booked in

About bloody time.

 

[Dave]

Jess has finally got her Jab booked for next week.

Looks like our GP surgery outsourced the vaccine priority to someone from outside the surgery. Unless you are an expert in Jess rare medical conditions or know her situation personally, it is very easy to over look her as a priority. It took us several calls and messages to them to find out why she was overlooked and to get her booked in

Its one of the more unknown facts of the UK healthcare system that GP surgeries have for the most part always been private enterprise contracting services to the NHS. It’s sad that your GP chose to outsource this, as the whole reason GP’s where responsible for the vulnerable group rather than the vaccine centres was because they should know their patients.

 

[tayspru]

When do you have the PCR test? Example:

I want to go to the cinema on Wednesday, it takes 24hrs to get the results. So I take the test on Tuesday but viral replication takes about 48hrs to show on a PCR test so that’s effectively telling me I was negative on Sunday.

Im then sat in the cinema happily shedding virus particles from the infection I caught on Monday.

Welcome to the window period of diagnostic testing. People need to realise population testing only stops asymptomatic spread, it won’t stop all spread.

In the next 12 months society needs to decide what level of death it is comfortable with, like it has with every other disease.

I don’t know why you’re talking about cinemas . My point is , other countries are requiring proof of vaccination (or a PCR test) for entry - that is a fact. Therefore it would be beneficial for our government to provide an easy way for us to display whether we have received a vaccine or not , in order to gain access to those countries . If we don’t have that , nobody can go anywhere which helps nobody

 

[Dave]

• I don’t know why you’re talking about cinemas . My point is , other countries are requiring proof of vaccination (or a PCR test) for entry - that is a fact. Therefore it would be beneficial for our government to provide an easy way for us to display whether we have received a vaccine or not , in order to gain access to those countries . If we don’t have that , nobody can go anywhere which helps nobody

You used testing as a way to travel safely, I was simply pointing out that testing is useless for preventing spread when traveling across borders if it can’t even protect against a trip to the cinema.

Now my perspective is at some point we need to accept a level of morbidity and continue to live our lives like we have done with every other virus. Testing certificates and vaccine passports provide fluffy comfort for transmission at best (vaccines provide enormous protection for actual harm but the populous has now been ingrained in the idea the infection rate and harm are linked which was true prior to any interventions but will become less so as vaccination takes hold).

Short term (now) we need to protect by limiting transmission (trust me our hospitals are still struggling), but long term once we get a better handle on morbidity (not a perfect one) we have to find a way of moving beyond frivolous comforts such as testing.

 

[tayspru]

That’s not what I’m talking about . What I mean is that other countries are not allowing entry without proof of a vaccine . That is already the case . It would simply be obstructive of our own government not to provide a simple way for people to show they have been vaccinated.

 

[Alsty]

This is mentioned in the government's Covid response plan (136-138). There clearly is an interest in doing what you propose, but it's not that simple.

Firstly they want to be sure vaccines are suitable at controlling transmissibility, even in the face of new variants.

Secondly, there needs to be an international framework and agreements, and it will take time to implement a suitable system. There's no point the UK doing something if other countries don't accept it, or if it makes fraud easy to commit.

There are of course also legal and ethical considerations.

 

[GaryH]

Just had second dose of the Pfizer vaccine today. Forgot how much my arm aches after the first one!!

 

[BigT]

I’m a bit late into this conversation but no way should anyone be allowed to go on a foreign holiday this year until the rest of Europe catches up with their vaccine roll out and every adult has been offered the vaccine in this country.
This is exactly what caused the spike in September / October last year, lots of selfish people that had to have their “well deserved” holiday from furlough in Benidorm or wherever.

Never in the history of this country have the older generation owed such a huge debt to the younger generation that have basically given up their schooling and mental health to keep them alive and this is the thanks they get? They want to clear off on holiday whilst the hard working young have to pay off the debts? No chance.
How about a 500% tax on the price of these holidays to anyone over 60?

 

[GaryH]

So I had my second dose of Pfizer yesterday - wow, I was so ill last night with side effects it was crazy. Obviously I had a sore arm but the "fun" started late evening with intense shivers for an hour couldnt stop shaking I felt so cold, then intense splitting headache and body aches, nausea and followed by fever and soaking with sweat! What a night. I know they say the second dose causes side effects but I never imagined it would be like that! Apatrt from the headache and nausea today i'm feeling a bit better!

But if you are due to have your second dose, just be aware you may get side effects too! I had nothing for the first dose apart from a sore arm.

 

[James]

I has exactly the same, fine on the first jab, very ill after the second. Had symptoms the day after the second jab, shivers, headache, nausea, aching all over, no energy. Seems to be common with the second dose, I know quite a few people who have been the same.

But then I will take a day of being ill over potentially contracting a life-changing virus.

 

[Dave]

I’m a bit late into this conversation but no way should anyone be allowed to go on a foreign holiday this year until the rest of Europe catches up with their vaccine roll out and every adult has been offered the vaccine in this country.
This is exactly what caused the spike in September / October last year, lots of selfish people that had to have their “well deserved” holiday from furlough in Benidorm or wherever.

Never in the history of this country have the older generation owed such a huge debt to the younger generation that have basically given up their schooling and mental health to keep them alive and this is the thanks they get? They want to clear off on holiday whilst the hard working young have to pay off the debts? No chance.
How about a 500% tax on the price of these holidays to anyone over 60?

That’s the plan, by June the adult population of the country will have had the jab so in theory that’s by the time foreign travel will be allowed. There is a lot of media regarding the European vaccine programme but it’s not as far behind as the Express suggests (I mean it is behind and it has been problematic but if the supply stabilises it won’t take them long).

Also the peak in cases last October wasn’t related to foreign travel as the Kent variant started in the UK.

It wouldn’t surprise me if the date for foreign travel gets pushed back though, I think they will prioritise domestic normality over holidays (not the worst idea in the world).

So I had my second dose of Pfizer yesterday - wow, I was so ill last night with side effects it was crazy. Obviously I had a sore arm but the "fun" started late evening with intense shivers for an hour couldnt stop shaking I felt so cold, then intense splitting headache and body aches, nausea and followed by fever and soaking with sweat! What a night. I know they say the second dose causes side effects but I never imagined it would be like that! Apatrt from the headache and nausea today i'm feeling a bit better!

But if you are due to have your second dose, just be aware you may get side effects too! I had nothing for the first dose apart from a sore arm.

Side effects are very unpredictable with vaccines as it’s not the chemicals in the drug that cause them directly like with other medications, it’s your bodies response to the immune stimulus. That said in general a second exposure causes a more pronounced immune response, it’s why people who have had Covid are more likely to get side effects with the vaccine as the immune system has a strong response.

 

[Skyscraper]

So I had my second dose of Pfizer yesterday - wow, I was so ill last night with side effects it was crazy. Obviously I had a sore arm but the "fun" started late evening with intense shivers for an hour couldnt stop shaking I felt so cold, then intense splitting headache and body aches, nausea and followed by fever and soaking with sweat! What a night. I know they say the second dose causes side effects but I never imagined it would be like that! Apatrt from the headache and nausea today i'm feeling a bit better!

But if you are due to have your second dose, just be aware you may get side effects too! I had nothing for the first dose apart from a sore arm.

I has exactly the same, fine on the first jab, very ill after the second. Had symptoms the day after the second jab, shivers, headache, nausea, aching all over, no energy. Seems to be common with the second dose, I know quite a few people who have been the same.

But then I will take a day of being ill over potentially contracting a life-changing virus.

If you both don't mind, can you clarify if you've actually had Covid before receiving the vaccine?

 

[James]

I haven't had Covid prior to having the vaccines.

A lot of my work colleagues have had the virus, however symptoms following the first and second doses of the vaccine has also varied between them.

 

[Dave]

If you both don't mind, can you clarify if you've actually had Covid before receiving the vaccine?

People who have had Covid tend to react to dose 1. The symptoms people have are something called seroconversion illness, basically the body thinks it’s actually fighting a real virus so starts the things it does to kill it (increases core temperature etc).

 

[BigT]

That’s the plan, by June the adult population of the country will have had the jab so in theory that’s by the time foreign travel will be allowed.

There is not a chance every adult will have been offered both vaccines by June.
It will be September at the earliest.

 

[Skyscraper]

I've got my first dose on Friday, but am a little bit worried about it.