Coronavirus

[pluk]

Sorry pluk, you do come across as a well resourced government supported officer sometimes!

if only that were true!! It's amazing how badly you can be treated when you are some of the only people in the country legally not allowed a union or to strike.

I know there's a lot of dreadful employers out there, and we've not done great ourselves as my wife's pay is commission based so she's on practically nothing as she'd only just come back from maternity, so on furlough hadn't earned anything to count towards pay. 80% of nearly nothing is even nearer to nothing!

But I have loads of friends in retail, a notoriously crappy area to be treated well, and practicality all of those have employers who are 'happy' to pay people to stay away so they don't lose all there staff to someone bringing it in. Aside from having any compassion or general decency it's good business.

 

[BigT]

To be fair my company has been amazing throughout and haven’t put anyone on furlough as it was unseen circumstances so footed the bill but this is completely different,
It’s basically self inflicted as the risk of this happening was always very high and so it is very selfish.
Ours is only a small company so other people will now have to have their leave cancelled at short notice as we can’t have people off together, that’s going to be a nice conversation tomorrow morning for me, everyone was asked to holiday in the UK to avoid this situation and everyone but one has, guess who will be the first on the redundancy list when it comes later in the year.

The government advise was unless I’m wrong to have a staycation this year, Boris said it himself, I don’t blame them for this one as they have been pushed into this by the holiday companies and other European governments, the two week quarantine was actually a good move for non essential travel.
All of the travel companies have been offering free changes as well so I don’t buy this I had it booked for along time.

@pluk with respect the police aren’t allowed unions but you have a guaranteed job for life, no need to worry about redundancy, full sick pay and a pension someone in the private sector could only dream of, retirement after 30 years service on 2/3 of final pay, so could be as young as 48 when you retire...
Maybe that last part has changed over the last few years for new recruits but you still are in a lot better position than most right now.

 

[rob666]

Sorry pluk, didnt mean to start another anti authority rant on here.
Anyone can apply to be a police officer these days.
Very few last as a lifetime career, because the work is so challenging.

 

[Benzin]

Is it selfish to still go abroad given I had booked my holidays at very start of the year?

Currently I can't change the November holiday either because the situation is still fluctuating so much. Especially given its meant to be California. God knows what situation the place will be come there, especially post election.

 

[imanautie]

Is it selfish to still go abroad given I had booked my holidays at very start of the year?

Currently I can't change the November holiday either because the situation is still fluctuating so much. Especially given its meant to be California. God knows what situation the place will be come there, especially post election.

Yes, but is it an acceptable level of selfishness? I can't say.

 

[RoyJess]

And yet the government said it was ok for people to travel to most of Europe...

When will people learn that this government can't be trusted? I've been listening to the scientist over the government. I've been closely following the daily figures and keeping a record. The data that I have here shows that the new daily cases here in the UK have creep'ed up slightly. Still too high for my liking to venture out Jess (even Just around the block let alone abroad).

Selfish to go abroad? - definitely yes, think of all of us that have been shielding, stuck at home for the past 6 months, don't you think that we would like to just leave the home just to go for a walk, let alone go abroad? (I know that Shielders are allowed to go out for exercise, but many still feel that it is unsafe to do so).

The closest thing that we will have to a holiday this year is a day out in our garden with the sand pit and pool

 

[Alsty]

It’s basically self inflicted as the risk of this happening was always very high and so it is very selfish.

I'm not sure the risk of it happening was very high. Most countries have had it under control without a second spike for months. In fact most have managed the situation far better than the UK. Normal life has to resume at some point. It seems like it will always be too soon for some people.

Ours is only a small company so other people will now have to have their leave cancelled at short notice as we can’t have people off together, that’s going to be a nice conversation tomorrow morning for me, everyone was asked to holiday in the UK to avoid this situation and everyone but one has, guess who will be the first on the redundancy list when it comes later in the year.

Somebody takes a holiday they were legally entitled to and which is sanctioned by the government, which wouldn't have impacted you or their colleagues, and now the rules change under their feet and you hold the employee fully liable? Nice.

The government advise was unless I’m wrong to have a staycation this year, Boris said it himself,

Until July, then travel corridors were opened and the FCO advice changed to allow international travel. One would question why this was done if the government didn't want you to travel.

 

[imanautie]

"your excempt from masks" is something a few people have said to me, they completely knock out my ability to use verbal speech so you would think it's an obvious thing to do wouldn't you?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-53539468
And ^ is why I don't, I don't think I'm the only person putting themselfs through pain and discomfort because they don't have the spoons for a confrontation
Why can't people just be nice to others who can't wear masks.

 

[BigT]

"your excempt from masks" is something a few people have said to me, they completely knock out my ability to use verbal speech so you would think it's an obvious thing to do wouldn't you?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-53539468
And ^ is why I don't, I don't think I'm the only person putting themselfs through pain and discomfort because they don't have the spoons for a confrontation
Why can't people just be nice to others who can't wear masks.

In an ideal world that would be the case but as seen this year there a lot of selfish people out there, the self entitled, the chavs the same groups of people all of the time and they constantly get away with it, we are not and never were in this together.
Look at peoples attitude now about the quarantine, it was obvious it was going to happen just a matter of when, it could also of been the other way around and Spain telling everyone arriving from the UK to quarantine, I can’t believe anyone was that silly not to think this was likely to happen but yet they still EXPECT to be paid for ANOTHER two weeks off when they get back from their DESERVED holiday whilst others have to cancel theirs by doing the right thing.

I’ll be straight here I don’t like wearing masks, in fact they give me a sore throat but I have reluctantly come to terms with the fact I have to wear one over the last couple of weeks, that’s life, we don’t always get what we want.
I won’t call out anyone who doesn’t wear one when I see them but also it’s quite easy to spot the ones who should be wearing one and aren’t.

 

[imanautie]

In an ideal world that would be the case but as seen this year there a lot of selfish people out there, the self entitled, the chavs the same groups of people all of the time and they constantly get away with it, we are not and never were in this together.
Look at peoples attitude now about the quarantine, it was obvious it was going to happen just a matter of when, it could also of been the other way around and Spain telling everyone arriving from the UK to quarantine, I can’t believe anyone was that silly not to think this was likely to happen but yet they still EXPECT to be paid for ANOTHER two weeks off when they get back from their DESERVED holiday whilst others have to cancel theirs by doing the right thing.

I’ll be straight here I don’t like wearing masks, in fact they give me a sore throat but I have reluctantly come to terms with the fact I have to wear one over the last couple of weeks, that’s life, we don’t always get what we want.
I won’t call out anyone who doesn’t wear one when I see them but also it’s quite easy to spot the ones who should be wearing one and aren’t.

It's not always as easy as you would think, some people make it obvious they should be wearing, others go to great lengths to hide it.

 

[Skyscraper]

It's not always as easy as you would think, some people make it obvious they should be wearing, others go to great lengths to hide it.

There was an article the other day about people who filmed themselves going into shops without masks on. Some people just don't care. They're going to make it harder for those who are legitimately exempt, like us both.
My dad doesn't like the whole mask thing at all, but even he will cover up if he really has to go to a shop.

 

[imanautie]

There was an article the other day about people who filmed themselves going into shops without masks on. Some people just don't care. They're going to make it harder for those who are legitimately exempt, like us both.

I've so far managed to use the excemption once in a shop and don't plan on repeating that experience.

 

[jon81uk]

Is it selfish to still go abroad given I had booked my holidays at very start of the year?

Currently I can't change the November holiday either because the situation is still fluctuating so much. Especially given its meant to be California. God knows what situation the place will be come there, especially post election.

well at the moment travel advice is not to go to the USA and I don’t see that changing soon, I think your November trip will be cancelled.


I’ve got an October trip to Gran Canaria that we booked before covid was an issue. Unless the government say we can’t travel and easyJet cancel the flights we are planning to go, but quarantine on return would be awkward if there are still issues at that point, but I should be able to work from home.

 

[Skyscraper]

My mum, who's also exempt, used one in a shop yesterday and one young person had a go at her and told her to stay away from him. He should stay away from her if he doesn't like that she's not wearing a mask!
Because of that I'm even more worried about going in to shops and on public transport now.

 

[Jonathan]

With all this talk about exemptions, I thought I should mention the past couple of days at work. In the main store, almost all customers have been wearing face coverings of some description, and nearly all staff members I've seen have as well, with those on checkouts being an exception due to being behind a perspex screen. Over at petrol, most have been wearing face coverings, but a higher proportion haven't - presumably because they've either forgotten, have a hidden disability, or think they're only going to be in the shop for a couple of minutes so it won't matter. Erm, that isn't the point. I'm not saying that that definitely IS the case - it's just one potential possibility. I'm also happy to report that I've had no issues with not wearing a face covering at all, though being on the till for most of the past couple of shifts has probably helped in that respect, and the sunflower lanyard has been fairly prominent. I even suggested it to a customer who said he might've had an exemption, which was a real positive! When I did my shopping after my shift yesterday (I've been doing that for months, even pre-covid, as it saves me going out again during the week), no questions or issues from anyone. I think I might've had one or two odd looks from some people, but that was all. I somehow got quite lucky. Having said that, I've accepted that I'm probably going to have to wear a face covering at some point when I'm out and about to avoid any issues. I'm just trying to avoid it for as long as I possibly can for the sake of my mental health, which has taken a real battering during lockdown.

 

[Benzin]

well at the moment travel advice is not to go to the USA and I don’t see that changing soon, I think your November trip will be cancelled.

Basically my thinking too, but given how much it costs to change the trip it's not going to move until Virgin say it won't go ahead.

The issue is of course with a lot of the holiday makers take the stance of if the flight leaves then your trip is fine. Even if your hotels are closed. Will probably sort it come October.

 

[Skyscraper]

One of the problems I have is I feel awkward around people wearing masks. Apparently that's natural as you can't read the facial expressions, and dogs are the same.

 

[pluk]

@pluk with respect the police aren’t allowed unions but you have a guaranteed job for life, no need to worry about redundancy, full sick pay and a pension someone in the private sector could only dream of, retirement after 30 years service on 2/3 of final pay, so could be as young as 48 when you retire...
Maybe that last part has changed over the last few years for new recruits but you still are in a lot better position than most right now.

It's certainly one of the most secure jobs around in that you can't be made redundant in the traditional sense, but beyond that you're a good decade or two out of date... and that's before the relatively high likelihood of being in a position where you've no right decision to make so whatever you do leads to the hindsight police telling you you were wrong in your split second decision and not only do you lose your job but you also go to prison. Or maybe die at the time if you got it wrong.

- full sick pay is kind of true, for 6months, then nothing even in the highly likely circumstances that it was doing the job that broke you.
- the pension is nothing like you describe and hasn't been for years, it's very comparable to the private sector now. There's no final salary, you work until you are at least 60 or later (which due to the physical nature will be an impossibility for many approaching that age)
The disruption to your life is massive, the hours are insane and saying no to basically any change in shift is not an option and a lot of extra hours are not paid (I don't mean at an enhanced rate, they are actually not paid). It consumes your life and is dangerous, and that's why the benefits were strong, to acknowledge and compensate for that.
When a lot of those benefits were taken away it wasn't just for new recruits, it meant officers nearing retirement suddenly had to work years extra (many over a decade), all the time paying more money into a pension that'd pay significantly less by the time they got there. You try doing that to another emergency service or unionised group and see what happens! It's recently been ruled in courts that the changes were unfair and ageist so compensation ahoy, but it's a great example of how they see they can treat us.
As a late starter I wasn't really effected in terms of working longer, but it's still a huge hit on what I was supposed to receive in retirement. Also as a late starter I had a previous career in the private sector so have seen both sides and can assure the chasm in conditions and benefits you think is there really is not.

All a bit off topic I know, but it doesn't come away from the point I was trying to make that it makes good business sense to not encourage ill people to come to work and make everyone ill. Travelling abroad somewhere against government advice, Corona related or not, should obviously come with personal consequences, but travelling to places that are deemed safe at the time but then you get caught out while you are there can't really be foreseen any more than staycationing and getting exposed to it here in a busy tourist town, which is surely where pockets will occur as tourism picks up. It comes to a point where it could be argued the only non-selfish thing to do is put yourself back into quarantine, but that's clearly silly.
It could well be argued that the net loss to the economy of a relitive few people getting caught out and not able to work for a couple of weeks having been abroad is going to be a lot less than the decimation of the whole of the travel industry for the longer term and the job losses that comes with if no one travels at all. Not so selfish then, is it?

 

[delta79]

I wonder if people who can't wear face covering could use face sheilds?
Not as good as a mask however would offer some level of protection.

Sent from my SM-J600FN using Tapatalk

 

[imanautie]

I wonder if people who can't wear face covering could use face sheilds?
Not as good as a mask however would offer some level of protection.

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Officially face shields don't count as masks, but I suppose they would be better then nothing.
I know some people who could probably managed a sheild instead and some who couldn't.