Matt N
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I think it would actually be a pretty good idea to vaccinate teachers and school students. That way, you could open schools in future without anywhere near the same degree of worry.
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Coronavirus
Dave
TS Founding Member
I expect as vaccines become more widely available they will go down this route. There will come a point where more vaccine is available than the ability to get it to the elderly (it’s slow work driving to care homes, setting up a vaccine area and giving a vaccine to 20-30 people). At that point the quickest vaccine strategy becomes setting up in a school of 1000 people for a day.
Craig
TS Administrator
There is a huge problem with what's been announced. The government have said they're making schools more COVID-secure. But that's basically that they've allocated some lateral flow tests, promised they'll send them to schools and telling the heads **on the last day of term** to arrange it by issuing some guidance on how to set it up.
That's expected to be organised off the back of a single document, over the holidays, by the leadership who already have enough on their plate with very little further communication. For many they are teaching more themselves due to staff members being off sick, or year groups being out meaning they're having to split their staffing between remote and physical learning. The document asks for space to be allocated to carry out testing, yet those same spaces are being utilised for social distancing, or for exams that are due to take place this year.
This goes back to my original post that schools need to be supported and have the testing procedures arranged for them, not just handed out in a document. That's beyond the expectations for any teacher to have to manage. And that testing setup needs to be physically up and ready to go in every school before they even consider pupils returning.
Meanwhile in China
mass parties for NYE
a growing economy
A MUSEUM about Covid like it don’t exist anymore
And constant cover ups about its origins
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...arder-to-solve-the-mystery-of-how-covid-began
As for vaccines there is growing concern around scientists that doing a patch work approach to Vaccinations at a slow pace with multiple mutations will result in a new strain which can evade the vaccines in the future. We need to do a mass hit with the vaccines and get everyone done ASAP
mass parties for NYE
a growing economy
A MUSEUM about Covid like it don’t exist anymore
And constant cover ups about its origins
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...arder-to-solve-the-mystery-of-how-covid-began
As for vaccines there is growing concern around scientists that doing a patch work approach to Vaccinations at a slow pace with multiple mutations will result in a new strain which can evade the vaccines in the future. We need to do a mass hit with the vaccines and get everyone done ASAP
Matt N
TS Member
China has nigh on eliminated COVID from what I can tell; they can probably get away with more lax distancing measures because of how low their case rates are and how effective their contact tracing seemingly is. Wuhan, for example, has not had a locally transmitted case since May. China yesterday only had 19 cases of COVID-19 in the whole country, with a huge population, and it’s been similar since about April.
A lot of other Eastern countries are in a similar position. Taiwan has not had a locally transmitted case since April, for example, and New Zealand has few to no cases, either.
Islander
TS Member
That's what's being done though? We're vaccinating as quickly as we can, as quickly as stock allows
Jb85
TS Member
Of course that’s if you believe the images shown....
it’s debatable with the Chinese as to whether we are seeing the true picture
A covid museum though. Interesting
This is something I’m torn on whether to agree or not. As a young adult myself, I have followed every rule to the letter and won’t be taking any risks until I have received my own vaccination (after everyone vulnerable and older than me). I work in a well known UK theme park on rides and my team (also young adults) are very strict on guests with social distancing, mask wearing etc. We don’t take any crap basically, break the rules and you’re kicked out of the attraction/ride. One of my team members even stopped one of the rides to kick someone off who took their mask off halfway round. So I know a lot of young people who are sensible and are acting in everyone’s best interests.
But then I also know a lot of people my age who think the rules don’t apply to them, they don’t care about anyone else and do whatever they want. We’ve seen from New Year’s Eve a lot of young people think they are privileged enough to break the rules as if they get covid it probably won’t make them that sick. But I have a friend who is same age as me (20) and she ended up in hospital with covid in April so I really think we can take nothing granted for here- no underlying problems either.
From working in a theme park I personally can’t put a finger on which stereotypical group is causing the problem- I think it’s a lot of different people from a lot of different ages and backgrounds not following the rules. When we had rule of 6, there were repeatedly groups of 15-20 coming at the theme park and they were 3-4 households who had met up together for the day out, which is illegal. So there’s a lot of families too causing the problem. And categorically there’s a few older people who won’t wear a mask or follow any rules either. But the rule-breakers come from a variety of ages and demographics.
Yes the public are causing a massive problem now, but government messaging and response to this pandemic has been truly awful- enforcement of existing rules is non existent and unless the UK stepped up and actually got strict with penalties and enforcement there’s no way the situation is going to change.
Schools is completely another matter I don’t want to dive into right now, but the lateral flow tests are hardly a solution. They’ve been trialled in many areas and unis and missed a lot of the cases and transmission. Schools should be focusing on distancing, masks and ventilation rather than children being grouped in bubbles like they are at the moment. We could also look to have schools in 50% of the time and 50% distanced learning to allow for better distancing. With the new strain I now being 1.7x more transmissible, in theory we should now leave social distance of 3.4-3.5m rather than 2m.
I disagree it’s a small minority of old people, maybe I’m in a privileged position of living in what could be described as an affluent road with by its very nature majority old people but they are basically never in their house, all of them.
Already this morning Grandpa has been around next door to see his granddaughter, grandma across the road has been shopping in Sainsbury's like every day and the other neighbours have gone for a walk somewhere in the car. (Rucksacks and walking boots packed)
A small snapshot but it’s not unique to around here, I travel the whole of the UK with work and it’s the same everywhere.
We need a change of tact, lockdowns are not working.
Already this morning Grandpa has been around next door to see his granddaughter, grandma across the road has been shopping in Sainsbury's like every day and the other neighbours have gone for a walk somewhere in the car. (Rucksacks and walking boots packed)
A small snapshot but it’s not unique to around here, I travel the whole of the UK with work and it’s the same everywhere.
We need a change of tact, lockdowns are not working.
Craig
TS Administrator
Agree with you on the age group thing, it's been across the spectrum as far as I'm concerned. Remember the people who aren't adhering to guidelines are far more visible than those that aren't. For every person you see not adhering to guidance, there's plenty more who are.
On the schools front though, distancing, masks and ventilation is already built into the operation of schools at present. The problem is that whilst that's easy to enforce for secondary school kids, it's impossible to teach primary school kids to socially distance. That's why bubbles are so essential and can't really be got rid of.
Social distancing is done on a best efforts basis in schools, as room sizes and the number of pupils who are in each of those classes mean many schools are unable to cater for 2m, hence the reason why the likes of school sports halls have already been brought into use as classrooms in some cases so can't be used for testing. I don't think an increase in transmissibility can directly correlate with the amount of social distancing that's required either, but I've not really looked into that one. However, if there were any increases to social distancing, then the schools may as well close anyway. The vast majority really are at their limits in terms of accommodating pupils.
Dave
TS Founding Member
China has a traditionally authority compliant culture and a very centrally organised and controlled structure. Add that to the fact they have more experience with coronavirus’ in general and you get better outcomes. Most of that structure restricts personal freedoms in normal times as well as emergencies as it is a communist regime. Now if you prefer that flavour of governance then that’s your personal opinion. I am not sure I want that level of government control in my life and a pandemic isn’t going to justify it for me (and I’m fairly left wing).
I agree we need fast vaccine rollout, I agree the government isn’t being very confidence inspiring and I agree slow rollout increases the risk of mutation, not sure what the solution is
Jb85
TS Member
yeh that’s a bit over the top ;-)
Clearly worked though, or so they have led us to believe
it’s so tough for teachers atm. My wife is one, as are a lot of our friends. There is so much more to do to ensure bubbles are kept etc. Primary is where I think the real threat is. Secondary kids are young adults and thus should know better and be able to follow rules.
In terms of getting the vaccine out there. There is what 68m people in the country? We need to be hitting 2m a week surely to make this effective quickly?
I can only see military interaction as the way forward.
On another note - how do we as a country handle people coming into the country without vaccine? And what about our people who refuse the vaccine ? How should we deal with them? Everyone has a right to choose after all.
delta79
TS Member
Talking schools and colleges.
I work as a caretaker and first aider at a college.
Key staff are in on the 4th, we have bits to do for new requirements. However we are still waiting for the LFT protocol to be issued.
I see different groups of students when it comes to covid secure.
Student on courses with Infection prevention control or Biosecurity (animal) unit.
These know the science and are great at acting in a covid secure way.
Students that understand the importance and follows the government's mix messages.
These are doing whats asked, although they do make a few small mistakes.
Students that are fatigued by IPC
They miss covid secure rules out of being tired of it.
Students that don't give damn or believe its a government conspiracy.
These are a pain. They don't wear masks or follow 2 metres.
The extreme ones will pull your mask off and tell you it a F****** conspiracy.
Overall 16 to 18 year old get it. And fall into the first two groups.
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I work as a caretaker and first aider at a college.
Key staff are in on the 4th, we have bits to do for new requirements. However we are still waiting for the LFT protocol to be issued.
I see different groups of students when it comes to covid secure.
Student on courses with Infection prevention control or Biosecurity (animal) unit.
These know the science and are great at acting in a covid secure way.
Students that understand the importance and follows the government's mix messages.
These are doing whats asked, although they do make a few small mistakes.
Students that are fatigued by IPC
They miss covid secure rules out of being tired of it.
Students that don't give damn or believe its a government conspiracy.
These are a pain. They don't wear masks or follow 2 metres.
The extreme ones will pull your mask off and tell you it a F****** conspiracy.
Overall 16 to 18 year old get it. And fall into the first two groups.
Sent from my SM-A217F using Tapatalk
BarryZola
TS Member
Maybe, just maybe, Eastern countries who have suffered similar viruses in the past have resorted to very strict lockdowns because they've learned that it's the only way to actually deal with it. Something our government have not tried so far in this pandemic. This continued economic damage and an inevitable rise in cases and another fake lockdown in a couple of weeks is down to Boris and co not having the balls to do what was required.
Craig
TS Administrator
Short term pain for long term gain. In recent weeks and months we've done the complete opposite. Do we accept that and change it or do we carry on doing the same thing?
delta79
TS Member
Isn't doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different outcome a sign of delusion or madness?
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BarryZola
TS Member
Personally feel (and to be fair I was suggesting it a lot) that we should have had a few weeks of pretty much absolute lockdown a few months back when cases started to rise again. Not sure if we've gone past the point of that making financial sense now though as we've probably already spent or are spending more on furlough etc over these months than it would have cost us to just shutdown for a few weeks and then start again with little to no cases left. It's just all been pathetic management of this virus.
BarryZola
TS Member
We havn't tried a proper lockdown in this country. Our restrictions were lockdown in name only. Fact.
Dave
TS Founding Member
October should have been a hard lockdown in conjunction with an extended half term holiday. Most experts said it. It should have been national as well. Regional controls work when your regions are huge and it’s a 8-12 hr drive between them. They do not work when you can drive from a tier 4 region to a tier 1 region in less than 2 hours, the UK is waaaaay too small geographically to treat different parts of the country differently, but the government made that bed for itself when the North was in trouble and they didn’t want to upset their core voters in the south.