Coronavirus

[Rob]

Anyone else in the mindset that we should be stopping all but essential international travel?

I get this is ruinous for the travel industry, but surely it has got to be better to ban holidaying abroad than it would be to risk importing further mutations?

I'm not saying Australia have got it right, but you can't take away that their citizens have been able to live a perfectly ordinary life while we've been in various shades of restrictions and lockdown.

There is too much essential travel in and out of the UK for a policy like in Australia or New Zealand to work, mainly lorries travelling to and from the EU. Absolutely essential if we want food and other goods.

I have family in Australia and although the situation over there is very different they are equally as frustrated with how things are being done in their country (no travel, very poor vaccine roll out etc.).

 

[GaryH]

I don’t see a problem with travel provided people are correctly tested prior to going, and are tested on arrival when they get back. We won’t ever stop all these variants and life needs to carry on again but being as cautious and safe as we possibly can.

 

[Matt N]

In a promising development, cases are now seemingly slowing in every region bar the South East, and scientists say that it’s looking good for 19th July: https://apple.news/AiIEvEaRsT8-KeH2Nw3I9Bg

Interestingly, it’s even been said by the scientists cited in this article that delaying step 4 past 19th July would even end up being detrimental to our progress, or at least, it would have little tangible benefit.

Promising stuff, don’t you think?

 

[GaryH]

I think it is yes. Its clear that although cases have shot up, it has not been reflected in hospital admissions or deaths, which means the vaccines are having a considerable effect. Provided we dont get a new variant which evades vaccines even more then we should be ok although just listening to the news and in Israel they are brining in mandatory mask wearing when indoors due to the increase in cases.

https://www.europeworldnews.com/isr...ors-due-to-the-increase-in-coronavirus-cases/

 

[pluk]

At the start of all this there were signs that we should have locked down sooner, the WHO said we should act, but we waited until the last minute to lock down. Everyone died, the government is incompetent etc etc

Also

Going into the final easing, the numbers were rising rapidly, the WHO was saying action was still required, the new variant brought unknowns and there hadn't been time to see if this would reflect in hospitalisations, so we held back. No-one died, the government is incompetent etc etc.

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing? Some of you need to have a listen to yourselves. It's embarrassing.

 

[D4n]

I disagree. It has been clear for week now that rising cases aren't resulting in rising hospitalisations and the situation is now very different as all adults have been offering some immunity through the vaccine.

In the previous case it was very clear that cases were going to result in hospitalisations (due to events in Italy and China previously) and therefore it was a clear-cut decision that we should have locked down sooner.

I'd argue that, WHO guidance aside, the situations are night and day.

 

[RoyJess]

I don’t see a problem with travel provided people are correctly tested prior to going, and are tested on arrival when they get back. We won’t ever stop all these variants and life needs to carry on again but being as cautious and safe as we possibly can.

This is not just about us.

Yes we might have a successful vaccination program, but other countries are no way near as vaccinated as us and the Delta variant cases here in the UK currently supersedes covid cases in the EU. Having the double jab is not 100% in stopping you getting or transmitting the Delta variant. We are still a threat of passing the delta variant to other counties that are not as well vaccinated as us.

We need to fully lift our own restrictions first and worry about travelling abroad once the rest of the world have caught up with us. I know that this isn't just about holidays, many people have family or second homes abroad.

However one needs to question why the G7 were able to meet and flout covid restrictions rules a few weeks ago and that VIP are allowed to come into the country without quarantine for the football final at Wembley coming soon. It's one rule for them and two fingers up to the rest of us

 

[pluk]

I disagree. It has been clear for week now that rising cases aren't resulting in rising hospitalisations and the situation is now very different as all adults have been offering some immunity through the vaccine.

In the previous case it was very clear that cases were going to result in hospitalisations (due to events in Italy and China previously) and therefore it was a clear-cut decision that we should have locked down sooner.

I'd argue that, WHO guidance aside, the situations are night and day.

Its easy to say now, but at the time of the delay we didn't know that hospitalisations wouldn't follow. This was a new variant, not widely studied against the vaccine and with no historic data to look at. This was coupled with a sudden leap in infant mortality in Brazil which was/is little understood. Yes, there were indications deaths wouldn't follow as they had last time but there was no way of knowing.

Put yourself in the decision makers shoes, then not now. You go one way, against WHO advice, and tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of people die if you are wrong. You get, as they do now for the way the initial lockdown was implemented, criticism all round for going against medical guidance.

We've had 4 more weeks of, frankly, not very restricting restrictions. How was that ever worth the gamble?

 

[monkeyboy]

Wow newspapers are actually telling the Uk public normal death totals.
The government won’t be happy

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[Rob]

I tend to avoid newspapers on the whole these days, all they do is publish article that support their own various agendas.

Its easy to say now, but at the time of the delay we didn't know that hospitalisations wouldn't follow. This was a new variant, not widely studied against the vaccine and with no historic data to look at. This was coupled with a sudden leap in infant mortality in Brazil which was/is little understood. Yes, there were indications deaths wouldn't follow as they had last time but there was no way of knowing.

Put yourself in the decision makers shoes, then not now. You go one way, against WHO advice, and tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of people die if you are wrong. You get, as they do now for the way the initial lockdown was implemented, criticism all round for going against medical guidance.

We've had 4 more weeks of, frankly, not very restricting restrictions. How was that ever worth the gamble?

Completely agree with this. At the time a decsion had to be made regarding 21st June there was no way to be sure what was going to happen with hospital admissions. There had been an increase in the North West which is where the Delta variant was more prevalent and there was legitimate worry that this could keep rising and also be reflected around the country.

As it turns out hospital admissions in the North West have flattened and even gone down slightly, which is great. But there was no way of knowing this at the time a decision had to be made.

 

[Alsty]

It has been clear for week now that rising cases aren't resulting in rising hospitalisations and the situation is now very different as all adults have been offering some immunity through the vaccine.

The large number of rising infections does concern me a bit, even if they're not translating into hospitalisations, because that's how new variants form.

I agree we can't live like this forever and we need to learn to coexist with it but this virus has thrown us so many curveballs along the way just when we think we're on top of it. I can't help but expect something to go wrong at the eleventh hour again.

 

[Dave]

At the start of all this there were signs that we should have locked down sooner, the WHO said we should act, but we waited until the last minute to lock down. Everyone died, the government is incompetent etc etc

Also

Going into the final easing, the numbers were rising rapidly, the WHO was saying action was still required, the new variant brought unknowns and there hadn't been time to see if this would reflect in hospitalisations, so we held back. No-one died, the government is incompetent etc etc.

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing? Some of you need to have a listen to yourselves. It's embarrassing.

I genuinely haven’t heard anyone say delaying the final easing of lockdown was government incompetence. People are disappointed obviously but In general supported the decision (ironically enough the only people who didn’t where a bunch of Tory MP’s and donors). It was strongly suspected that the delta variant wouldn’t evade vaccines but we had to be sure.

The delay at the start of the pandemic was incompetence, as was the poor testing, lack of PPE, sending untested into care homes and test and trace.

As it stands we keep hearing about the sleaze in government when it comes to procurement and giving people jobs, and certainly the travel rules are a complicated mess (it’s either safe to go somewhere or not, the amber list is stupid ). Delaying putting India on the travel ban so as not to upset India during a trade negotiation was absolutely negligent as well.

The government has got 1 single thing right in the pandemic and that was vaccine procurement (they like to take credit for the vaccine roll out but that was lead by the NHS, unlike test and trace which was run by capita).

 

[RoyJess]

Well I won’t be wearing a mask after 19th July and I call on the rest of the public to do the same.
It’s time to stand up and say enough is enough and this is the most visible way of doing that.

Well most people said sod it to the social distancing rules when cummings had his eyes tested.

I now think the rest of us are all going to say sod it to the rules now Hancock has broken his own rules by getting his tonsils tested

 

[Matt.GC]

Well most people said sod it to the social distancing rules when cummings had his eyes tested.

I now think the rest of us are all going to say sod it to the rules now Hancock has broken his own rules by getting his tonsils tested

Well if this is the case, then there's going to be a lot of people turning up to work tomorrow to find their boss has dimmed the lights and put some champagne on ice with Barry White playing in the background.

 

[Jonathan]

Well if this is the case, then there's going to be a lot of people turning up to work tomorrow to find their boss has dimmed the lights and put some champagne on ice with Barry White playing in the background.

Sign me up for that.

 

[delta79]

The government has got 1 single thing right in the pandemic and that was vaccine procurement (they like to take credit for the vaccine roll out but that was lead by the NHS, unlike test and trace which was run by capita).

I have said for a long time the best thing they did was to get the NHS and the MOD to deal with vaccine program.

Well most people said sod it to the social distancing rules when cummings had his eyes tested.

I now think the rest of us are all going to say sod it to the rules now Hancock has broken his own rules by getting his tonsils tested

I had problems getting people to follow the rules after mr cummings incident. Now i should just give up.

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[WillPS]

The counter point to that would be how long would we prevent international travel for? There's a huge chunk of the world who would not be able to get anywhere near the level of vaccination countries such as ourselves have got to. Where would we draw the line when it appears that we're seeing the hospitalisation link broken or substantially reduced so far?

In terms of Australia, whilst they do have an "ordinary life" a lot of the time, they are still living under the threat of constant short term lockdowns. Sydney and Bondi Beach are just about to go into another week long lockdown from tomorrow, so with that and a foreign travel ban they are far from living what anyone would call normal life.

I get what you're saying - but all the good work with vaccination could be broken if a variant that busts them emerges. I get that variant could emerge in the UK (again) but it is so much more likely to happen in the rest of the world and particularly where incidence of the virus is that much higher.

If you were to tell me the winter might have 2 or 3 week-long local lockdowns but otherwise pubs, restaurants, hotels and leisure available, I would take it. What I can't contemplate is another Autumn/Winter like we had last year where the controls were ever-changing, life-limiting and often completely futile - followed by a 3 month strict lockdown.

There is too much essential travel in and out of the UK for a policy like in Australia or New Zealand to work, mainly lorries travelling to and from the EU. Absolutely essential if we want food and other goods.

I have family in Australia and although the situation over there is very different they are equally as frustrated with how things are being done in their country (no travel, very poor vaccine roll out etc.).

Obviously HGV drivers can't be subject to the same controls and there is always a risk of importing variants there which Australia doesn't have to deal with. They are already subject to a relatively stringent test regime and I think that situation can't really be improved and more without disruption to essential supplies.

We can't live a normal life without that stuff, I get it.

People can live a normal life without holidays abroad tho - and none of the reasons I've seen for allowing travel abroad without a strict quarantine period are compelling enough to risk that vaccine-busting future variant being imported.

And I know that Australians aren't happy about the lack of travel, but you know as well as I do that they have had a better (more 'normal') lifestyle day to day than we have, far and away.

One of my best friend's wife lives in Australia - it's a bizarre situation frankly but it has worked for them for the last 20 years living on separate sides of the globe but seeing eachother more than half the time. You can imagine how disruptive the pandemic and travel restrictions both sides have been for them and how difficult it was for them to go 15 months with no way of seeing eachother. Our friend finally managed to get a place on a flight last month but in order to do so he had to fly business class (at a ruinous cost) as well as all the tests and quarantining - the total cost was about 7x more than what he would normally pay to get to Australia, and he's relatively lucky that he can do his normal job (writing) in that situation, otherwise there would have been a cost there too.

Trust me, I get that there are problems with the approach and there are a small group of people it totally dicks on, as well as a larger group who it causes dissatisfaction, but unfortunately if that is the cost of keeping every other business viable and more importantly not locking down the entire population, it's got to be worth it.

 

[Matt N]

Interestingly, the government are planning to gradually phase out quarantine from amber list countries over the summer. Initially, it will be fully vaccinated British residents who won’t have to quarantine on return from amber list countries, but it will eventually extend to anyone coming from amber list countries: https://www.connexionfrance.com/Fre...-free-travel-from-amber-countries-this-summer

 

[Matt.GC]

My hopes for a joint Efteling and Phantasia trip are still on ice.

 

[Skyscraper]

My hopes for a joint Efteling and Phantasia trip are still on ice.

Yeah Euro trips are still a long way off unfortunately. Even when fully vaccinated brits don't have to quarantine on return, they'll still have to take tests, plus they'll still have to quarntine on entry to most countries anyway.