Dreamland Margate: General Discussion

[Stuie]

Last year was a great year from Dreamland Margate, which continues to go from strength to strength. They've released a 2018 highlights clip, which gives you an idea of the progress being made.



Also announced today, is that Eddie Kemsley is returning as CEO, which is excellent news, in my opinion. Unfortunately, she took the majority of the blame when the company entered administration in 2016, when the reality was that the business wasn't sufficiently funded to be successful.

https://theisleofthanetnews.com/201...msley-returns-to-head-up-amusement-park-team/

 

[Skyscraper]

BUMP!

Went to Dreamland Margate for the first time yesterday. Atmosphere was nice and the ride selection is good. Scenic was fun, but not as much as Pinball X. Really enjoyed it, having survived a Reverchon one last year. Was really smooth and enjoyable compared to that! LWV should get a new Zamperla mouse to replace their old, rickety Reverchon one.

 

[Burbs]

BUMP!

Went to Dreamland Margate for the first time yesterday. Atmosphere was nice and the ride selection is good. Scenic was fun, but not as much as Pinball X. Really enjoyed it, having survived a Reverchon one last year. Was really smooth and enjoyable compared to that! LWV should get a new Zamperla mouse to replace their old, rickety Reverchon one.

I enjoyed my visit earlier in the year, though I have to respectfully disagree about Pinball X. I much prefer the Reverchon models, considering you actually get a spin on them.

 

[D4n]

I think it has to be assumed that this place is really struggling. The number of days it spends open is ridiculously few, pretty much weekends only besides a 6 week stint for the school summer holidays.

I visited Margate Monday to Friday last month but was unable to visit for that reason - it must have been the only amusement park in the UK closed on weekdays in June.

 

[Funcone]

The restraints are better on the Zamperla models. Not having to faff around with seatbelts speeds up the loading on what is potentially a very low throughput ride. It’s also allowed them to slightly lower the height restriction. Being a newer design the Zamperla ones also have more safety features compared to the Reverchon ones. However, the block breaks do trim the cars quite heavily. Arguably it’s intense enough for a ride with a 1.1 metre height restriction, but enthusiasts are likely to enjoy it less because of the way the brakes keep on grabbing the cars.

 

[Stuie]

I think it has to be assumed that this place is really struggling. The number of days it spends open is ridiculously few, pretty much weekends only besides a 6 week stint for the school summer holidays.

I visited Margate Monday to Friday last month but was unable to visit for that reason - it must have been the only amusement park in the UK closed on weekdays in June.

As a local, who's followed this park and the campaign to save it for about 15 years I couldn't disagree with you more. What they seem to be doing is only opening when there's a chance that they will get good footfall and not just be paying 50 staff to stand around doing nothing. Those early season week days are nothing but money losers.

The park seems to be constantly improving - each time we go there's some new landscaping, tables, bar, a new restaurant etc. and the events calendar is just crazy - constantly showcasing bands and DJ's that wouldn't normally play Margate.

I'll be there for Rudimental on Saturday night, it sold out months ago, starts at 7pm and is on the outside stage with the rides all open and park all illuminated. That's just one of a summer full of sold out events running alongside the day time amusement park business.

 

[SuperMuscleMan]

I think it has to be assumed that this place is really struggling. The number of days it spends open is ridiculously few, pretty much weekends only besides a 6 week stint for the school summer holidays.

I visited Margate Monday to Friday last month but was unable to visit for that reason - it must have been the only amusement park in the UK closed on weekdays in June.

It opens on days where they can make a profit. In the last few years more rides than ever have been added (probably more than any other park in the UK).

Yes it's closed alot to make it a viable attraction but it probably has similar opening hours in the year in total as Alton. - It does not close at 4/5pm on most operating days!!!

 

[KolonelKlink]

The local council have decided to sell Dreamland to the current leaseholders, Sands Heritage, who supposedly want to re-open the bingo hall and cinema at the front of the site and build a new hotel:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-49204532

Quite a telling quote from the council leader in that piece, however:

"Dreamland represents a current and potential liability to the council, with current and future costs which are unsustainable."

 

[Stuie]

The local council have decided to sell Dreamland to the current leaseholders, Sands Heritage, who supposedly want to re-open the bingo hall and cinema at the front of the site and build a new hotel:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-49204532

Quite a telling quote from the council leader in that piece, however:

He is referring to the Cinema Building and car park which is outside of the current lease agreement and is costing the council money on maintenance and refurbishment and also the settlement to the previous landowner for the compulsory purchase order.

The park is doing very well these days and the operator wants to invest more money to bring the additional buildings back into use.

 

[Rick]

Dreamland had a really cool summer advert on the tube last year, this year's isn't quite as good and it doesn't seem to be as widespread.

 

[Funcone]

It certainly isn’t boring at Dreamland. We knew they were losing around £3.5 million a year, but it now turns out that the hedge fund property developer who owns them has lost about £3 billion in the last year as investors withdrew their money due to poor performance, and now the hedge fund’s getting wound up. Their hotel has been put on hold and it’s not clear how much longer the park will be able to carry on trading. All this has happened while the Council were in negotiations to sell the freehold to the property developer. You couldn’t make this stuff up.

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/thanet...ByR84j4JbP66yX4_98qEfS6BbZoJ5hBpR1mN3tks1Si60

 

[Matt N]

It certainly isn’t boring at Dreamland. We knew they were losing around £3.5 million a year, but it now turns out that the hedge fund property developer who owns them has lost about £3 billion in the last year as investors withdrew their money due to poor performance, and now the hedge fund’s getting wound up. Their hotel has been put on hold and it’s not clear how much longer the park will be able to carry on trading. All this has happened while the Council were in negotiations to sell the freehold to the property developer. You couldn’t make this stuff up.

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/thanet...ByR84j4JbP66yX4_98qEfS6BbZoJ5hBpR1mN3tks1Si60

Oh dear; hopefully Dreamland's finances will bounce back somewhat before long!

 

[Rick]

You would hope the council will be able to keep their hands on the freehold if it gives them some power in any future issue. I'm no fan of local government but it's in their absolute best interest for Dreamland not to go backwards.

A "build it and flip it" mentality is probably not the best for Dreamland, or any park for that matter. With a history as patchy as Dreamland has, it needs sustainability.

 

[Plastic Person]

A shame this has happened, because it really felt like it was starting to come together in terms of their events scheduling.

 

[Funcone]

A shame this has happened, because it really felt like it was starting to come together in terms of their events scheduling.

It isn’t easy to make money out of seaside amusement parks. There are a lot of costs with engineers, ride operators, electricity, insurance, parts for rides etc But an amusement park or theme park the size of Dreamland wouldn’t normally lose £3.5 million a year. Most of the loses seemed to come from the events.

 

[Stuie]

It isn’t easy to make money out of seaside amusement parks. There are a lot of costs with engineers, ride operators, electricity, insurance, parts for rides etc But an amusement park or theme park the size of Dreamland wouldn’t normally lose £3.5 million a year. Most of the loses seemed to come from the events.

There is no way that Dreamland has made a loss this year. It's been packed all summer, busy amusement park days and sold out events all summer long.

The park has turned a corner but now the owning hedge fund is screwed!

What they've done however is proven the business model, the demand for it and the overwhelming importance of it to the regeneration of the area. In case it's ever required, the Dreamland Trust will be there ready with the Save Dreamland Campaign 2.

 

[Rick]

You can be extremely busy with sold out events and still lose money. If they rent the site and built the park with debt that's an interesting position to be in given the trends in the industry.

 

[Stuie]

You can be extremely busy with sold out events and still lose money. If they rent the site and built the park with debt that's an interesting position to be in given the trends in the industry.

The operator is still in a 7 year rent free period which was negotiated to allow investment in the park.

And long term liabilities does not mean that the company isn't turning a profit.

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/thanet/news/dreamland-is-having-its-best-year-ever-212107/

 

[Funcone]

In the end we will find out in time what the next chapter will be for Dreamland. I’m very much hoping that things will work out for the park. It’s true that they have the site rent free, and I doubt they do actually have much debt. Given that the company only recently came out of administration and has a really bad credit score, no ‘normal’ financial institution is likely to lend them money. If they are in debt, it’s presumably with someone or some organisation linked to the Hedge Fund.

Clearly the current news won’t help the park. If the company were to fold then all kinds of people could lose out, from the staff, to Members (annual pass holders), people who’ve booked tickets in advance for events, people who’ve booked weddings. The last one is particularly significant as weddings were a big part of their business plan and they’ve only been getting two or three weddings a year, perhaps partly because people are dubious about booking such a big event when the park’s finances are far from certain.

The article Stuie posted certainly does sound very positive, although it does also read like a PR statement from the park, rather than something impartial that actually analyses things. The park went from pay to enter last year to free to enter this year. This year the park also started letting people bring in their own picnics (last year people even had bottles of water confiscated in bag checks) and adults can now ride for free with small children on certain rides, something they couldn’t do before. As it’s free to enter the visitor numbers are primarily based on an estimate. Given that they’ve been wanting planning permission for a hotel and then to buy the freehold off the Council, cynics could argue that they have a vested interest in fluffing up the numbers.

To be fair it does sound like they’ve had a reasonably successful summer, but also one with quite a few challenges. The Scenic spent another chunk of time closed due to re-occuring problems. Pinball X had its height restriction raised from 1.1 metres to 1.25 metres following an ‘incident’. The Vintage Caterpillar disappeared out of the park due to unresolved problems. The Helter Skelter is still standing but not operating…

 

[Stuie]

To be fair it does sound like they’ve had a reasonably successful summer, but also one with quite a few challenges. The Scenic spent another chunk of time closed due to re-occuring problems. Pinball X had its height restriction raised from 1.1 metres to 1.25 metres following an ‘incident’. The Vintage Caterpillar disappeared out of the park due to unresolved problems. The Helter Skelter is still standing but not operating…

Pinball X had it's height restriction increased due to the six year old boy falling from Twister at Lightwater valley. I'm not sure when the Scenic was closed - we've ridden it every couple of weeks at least, throughout the summer at weekends and events.

Helter Skelter is not reopening, it's going to be converted to a food outlet. This is due to someone trying to claim for friction burns - something that has happened since forever on Helter Skelters! The vintage caterpillar remains a mystery but this ride is owned by the Council and was restored by Littleboys.

In all honesty, I can't see the park closing and I'm not just talking with my rose coloured glasses on here. I have been there at so many music events, inside and outside, food and drink festival, random days off and weekends - the business is booming this year. Scenes like this, all summer long.