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Flat Rides: What would you like to see come to the park?

There seems to be a bit of an obsession lately with trying to re-create the park of the past by bringing back retired rides.

Whilst I have fond memories of Alton Towers in the 90s and want to see the park return to using some of the formula that contributed to that period, simply bringing back rides that have gone isn’t really feasible.

Increase the quality, add a better mixture of ride types, improve entertainment - sure, but do it by moving forwards into the future, not by hanging onto the past.
 
AT86 said:
There seems to be a bit of an obsession lately with trying to re-create the park of the past by bringing back retired rides.

Whilst I have fond memories of Alton Towers in the 90s and want to see the park return to using some of the formula that contributed to that period, simply bringing back rides that have gone isn’t really feasible.

Increase the quality, add a better mixture of ride types, improve entertainment - sure, but do it by moving forwards into the future, not by hanging onto the past.
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Completely agree with this. Just because a ride was successful 20-30 years ago, doesn't mean it would be now. Nostalgia can be fantastic, but at the same time you also have to move with the times to attract and entice new audiences. The likes of Fabbri and Mondial produce some great rides that turn heads, but in the case of Fabbri (especially the ones you've posted) they're very "fairgroundy" and many of Mondial's offerings are in the same vein. The main issue - neither are known for a great deal of reliability.

Towers should be fighting to compete with the best in Europe, never mind just the UK. Innovation and uniqueness is needed, rather than rides which you can find in other parks of a lower quality across the world.
 
AT86 said:
There seems to be a bit of an obsession lately with trying to re-create the park of the past by bringing back retired rides.

Whilst I have fond memories of Alton Towers in the 90s and want to see the park return to using some of the formula that contributed to that period, simply bringing back rides that have gone isn’t really feasible.

Increase the quality, add a better mixture of ride types, improve entertainment - sure, but do it by moving forwards into the future, not by hanging onto the past.
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I never grew up with any of these older flat rides, having only recently ridden Quantum and Zodiac at Thorpe Park out of all the flats mentioned in this thread. But damn, these flats look wicked!!

The only reason we really bring up these flats is because:

1) Have you seen most Flat rides nowadays? Back then told have something that would flip you upside down, shoot water in your face, or something that was pulling a lot of Gs on you while nearly vertically up in the air like a fairis wheel (Enterprise). Most new flat rides are mostly just swinging rides that spin you, sitting down on a a group of spinning seats, while also being span by a giant motor, or a basic air powered drop tower with cheesy lighting. There's little variety, but it doesn't mean there are any out there. There are a few unique new flat rides, but these standard spinning while also spinning on a large disk rides just outnumber them HUGELY.

2) What's wrong with older rides coming back? Really, it's not like a huge negative thing that will cause anything bad. Why is it even negatively looked down upon? If I see a ride nearly 40 years old, looks really fun, is still safe to ride, I don't care how old it is, I wanna ride it. Theme Parks aren't really about moving forward in their core with the latest ride tech everywhere, they're about having a simple, good and fun time. I agree there needs to be improvements for entertainment purposes, but, why remove a still incredibly fun and pretty popular ride 'just because it's old'? Outside of safety laws? Why?

Anyway, check out these rides here, and say hello to some familiar faces as well :)

Major Rides - Sartori Rides

Are you ready for some thrill? Choose a category or scroll down and discover all of our Major Rides!
www.sartoriamusement.com www.sartoriamusement.com
 
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I totally get the reservations of bringing back old flats, but I think we can all agree that waking up tomorrow and seeing Ripsaw, Dynamo and Boneshaker on the queue time app would be awesome.

A supernova would be the perfect flat for Dark Forest - it just needs some theming into a possessed tree. Call it Vine Twister or something similar and just stick a few themed vines all over it.
 
I firmly agree with the arguments @AT86 and @Craig have made, and I mostly have the mindset of “what’s done is done; let’s move forward into the future” when it comes to the debate of bringing back old rides.

With flat rides, though, I do kind of get where @Trooper Looper is coming from. Flat rides have advanced remarkably little even since Towers first opened back in 1980, and there are only so many ways you can spin people or otherwise move them about in some fashion without track being involved. As such, what do modern flat rides really offer that some older ride types can’t? Aside from a select few exceptions, there really isn’t that much difference between the flat rides being built today and the flat rides being built 30 years ago or so.

I would mount a friendly challenge to this one point, however:
Trooper Looper said:
2) What's wrong with older rides coming back? Really, it's not like a huge negative thing that will cause anything bad. Why is it even negatively looked down upon? If I see a ride nearly 40 years old, looks really fun, is still safe to ride, I don't care how old it is, I wanna ride it. Theme Parks aren't really about moving forward in their core with the latest ride tech everywhere, they're about having a simple, good and fun time. I agree there needs to be improvements for entertainment purposes, but, why remove a still incredibly fun and pretty popular ride 'just because it's old'? Outside of safety laws? Why?

Anyway, check out these rides here, and say hello to some familiar faces as well :)

Major Rides - Sartori Rides

Are you ready for some thrill? Choose a category or scroll down and discover all of our Major Rides!
www.sartoriamusement.com www.sartoriamusement.com
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I would disagree with the bolded to some extent. If a park stays stagnant and coasts on the value of its old rides forever, it will grow dated and people will stop coming. New technology is arguably part of the appeal of theme parks, and the latest and greatest ride tech advancements are arguably a large part of what tempt people to theme parks. And often, new rides offer an experience that is widely considered superior to their older counterparts.

In terms of why parks remove incredibly fun and popular rides “just because they’re old”; often, this is because the park feels that they can do something even better with the space. For the most part, newer rides are often more highly rated than older ones, so for instance, if a park’s weakest link is a 1995 B&M Sitting Coaster that’s moderately highly rated, but they have the opportunity to replace it with a 2022 Intamin Blitz Coaster that’s phenomenally highly rated and the cutting edge of technology, surely it would be a no brainer to get the Intamin Blitz in there?
 
There's preservation of old rides. There's replacing rides like for like as they age, especially when they fit with a certain theme or are one particular component of a wider experience. Then there's just bringing back rides from the past for the hell of it.

I get that some of the younger members would like to experience things we have. But just buying new versions of rides that have long gone won't rewind the clock. That time has passed and I'd prefer to see some new experiences. I wouldn't say no to a new magic carpet, a floorless top spin and some back ground flats as filler attractions here and there. But ultimately I'd like to see money plowed into something the park hasn't had before.

Anyway, Energiser/Boneshaker wasn't very good. Not to me anyway. I found it quite dull.
 
Matt N said:
I firmly agree with the arguments @AT86 and @Craig have made, and I mostly have the mindset of “what’s done is done; let’s move forward into the future” when it comes to the debate of bringing back old rides.

With flat rides, though, I do kind of get where @Trooper Looper is coming from. Flat rides have advanced remarkably little even since Towers first opened back in 1980, and there are only so many ways you can spin people or otherwise move them about in some fashion without track being involved. As such, what do modern flat rides really offer that some older ride types can’t? Aside from a select few exceptions, there really isn’t that much difference between the flat rides being built today and the flat rides being built 30 years ago or so.

I would mount a friendly challenge to this one point, however:

I would disagree with the bolded to some extent. If a park stays stagnant and coasts on the value of its old rides forever, it will grow dated and people will stop coming. New technology is arguably part of the appeal of theme parks, and the latest and greatest ride tech advancements are arguably a large part of what tempt people to theme parks. And often, new rides offer an experience that is widely considered superior to their older counterparts.

In terms of why parks remove incredibly fun and popular rides “just because they’re old”; often, this is because the park feels that they can do something even better with the space. For the most part, newer rides are often more highly rated than older ones, so for instance, if a park’s weakest link is a 1995 B&M Sitting Coaster that’s moderately highly rated, but they have the opportunity to replace it with a 2022 Intamin Blitz Coaster that’s phenomenally highly rated and the cutting edge of technology, surely it would be a no brainer to get the Intamin Blitz in there?
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In terms of offer roller coasters being replaced with newer ones, that's something I absolutely agree. Newer coaster are a lot more fun and unique as well when compared to coasters of the 70-90s which most are off the shelf models, and can be pretty rough, excluding types such as Arrow Suspended Coasters and schwarzkopfs rides, which are really unique and still give out a really good experience.

On flat rides though... it feels like the other way around. What replaced Ripsaw when that closed? Absolutely nothing for 5 years until an extremely common flat ride came in its place. Same for Boneshaker, which was replaced by something a lot worse, A BLIMMING WALTZERS, which by the way literally every fun fair has.

Why would Merlin have trouble with running cost for these older Flat rides anyway? The companies still make them, and Merlin are the 3rd biggest Theme Park Chain outside of Universal and Disney innterms of success, why would they have trouble when the few carnivals that run the same ride models, can still run them and keep up maintenance absolutely fine? That's pretty inexcusable by itself.
 
Trooper Looper said:
On flat rides though... it feels like the other way around. What replaced Ripsaw when that closed? Absolutely nothing for 5 years until an extremely common flat ride came in its place. Same for Boneshaker, which was replaced by something a lot worse, A BLIMMING WALTZERS, which by the way literally every fun fair has.
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I think the RetroSquad were the exception rather than the rule when it comes to modern flat rides. Most parks ripping out flat rides replace them with things like drop towers or frisbee/gyroswing rides, which are more impressive in scale than the flat rides we’ve seen during the RetroSquad’s tenure at Alton Towers.
 
Matt N said:
I think the RetroSquad were the exception rather than the rule when it comes to modern flat rides. Most parks ripping out flat rides replace them with things like drop towers or frisbee/gyroswing rides, which are more impressive in scale than the flat rides we’ve seen during the RetroSquad’s tenure at Alton Towers.
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Yeah, maybe I should've said 'In Merlins parks'. My bad sorry :/
 
Trooper Looper said:
In terms of offer roller coasters being replaced with newer ones, that's something I absolutely agree. Newer coaster are a lot more fun and unique as well when compared to coasters of the 70-90s which most are off the shelf models, and can be pretty rough, excluding types such as Arrow Suspended Coasters and schwarzkopfs rides, which are really unique and still give out a really good experience.

On flat rides though... it feels like the other way around. What replaced Ripsaw when that closed? Absolutely nothing for 5 years until an extremely common flat ride came in its place. Same for Boneshaker, which was replaced by something a lot worse, A BLIMMING WALTZERS, which by the way literally every fun fair has.

Why would Merlin have trouble with running cost for these older Flat rides anyway? The companies still make them, and Merlin are the 3rd biggest Theme Park Chain outside of Universal and Disney innterms of success, why would they have trouble when the few carnivals that run the same ride models, can still run them and keep up maintenance absolutely fine? That's pretty inexcusable by itself.
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Of course if it were a case of the likes of Ripsaw and Energiser Vs travelling rides Vs plain patches of grass or pavement the former would win out.

But they're gone. We're expected to be grateful that they've been replaced temporarily with fun fair rides after years of nothing but replacing them like for like with long removed attractions is really only one step up from that and possibly even a bit weird. If you have, for arguments sake, a few £million to spend on new attractions, would you buy what you've had in the past or spend it on something new?
 
Matt.GC said:
Of course if it were a case of the likes of Ripsaw and Energiser Vs travelling rides Vs plain patches of grass or pavement the former would win out.

But they're gone. We're expected to be grateful that they've been replaced temporarily with fun fair rides after years of nothing but replacing them like for like with long removed attractions is really only one step up from that and possibly even a bit weird. If you have, for arguments sake, a few £million to spend on new attractions, would you buy what you've had in the past or spend it on something new?
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That's it though, it's the whole "it's better then nothing I guess"

If the retrosquad was a last minute thought by Merlin, I'll let that slide. Its fair, they needed more rides for The Park, knowing how many people wanted to go out after Lockdown. Yes, they're temporary rides, but I feel that they're gonna be there for quite a while... 5 years perhaps? I think they should bring the advanced topspin in, because everyone loved Ripsaw, and it's one of the best flat rides currently in the market.
 
Was thinking back to what I class as the golden age of the park - essentially 1994 - 2002 for me. The park wouldn’t think twice about moving and retheming permanent flats around the park. A far cry from the level of love and care we see today. Am I right in thinking that the last large permanent flat the park purchased was Submission in 2001? That’s 21 years of flat ride decline.
 
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The biggest problem we all can agree on is that when Tussaud’s removed a flat ride it replaced it with a another ride or moved it to another area of the park but Merlin have neither removed it completely or left attractions SBNO and it took Covid and social distancing for them to notice that they not got enough attractions across the park and with no Nemesis next season It will more than likely have a 3rd season with the retro squad with maybe a new flat added in 2024 in Forbidden valley.
 
The rise of the coasters has contributed to the demise of the flat ride portfolio.

The annual maintenance budget for one of those coasters can match or exceed the capital cost of a flat ride.

The lack of flat rides isn't unique to Alton but it's probably the most acute example of it. Cedar Fair did something similar as did Six Flags, but those chains have almost reversed that position now and build fewer coasters and more flat rides.

The newest significant coaster at Valleyfair!, for example - opened in 2007 and there are plenty of other examples along those lines.
 
Apologises if this has already been picked up on elsewhere, but if you go to 1:16:05 on this IAPPA vlog, Lars Hartmann from HUSS Rides confirm that ‘a big surprise is coming’ in regards to their Breakdance 5 model, then perhaps unrelatedly goes onto to say that they’d been at Alton Towers only a few days ago - this was only filmed a couple weeks back.

From: https://youtu.be/8zWmv-uLRTQ

Certainly an interesting watch. Would adore HUSS Rides back at the park - a new Top Spin Suspended and a Breakdance 5 would be absolutely ideal! Just not sure if I can see Merlin working with them, when SBF are available… But why else would they have been on park? 🤔
 
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James Watkins said:
Apologises if this has already been picked up on elsewhere, but if you go to 1:16:05 on this IAPPA vlog, Lars Hartmann from HUSS Rides confirm that ‘a big surprise is coming’ in regards to their Breakdance 5 model, then perhaps unrelatedly go onto to say that they’d been at Alton Towers only a few days ago - this was only filmed a couple weeks back.

From: https://youtu.be/8zWmv-uLRTQ

Certainly an interesting watch. Would adore HUSS Rides back at the park - a new Top Spin Suspended and a Breakdance 5 would be absolutely ideal! Just not sure if I can see Merlin working with them, when SBF are available… But why else would they have been on park?
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A Huss Breakdance 5 on the site of the removed Huss Enterprise would go down very nicely indeed.
 
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