Gardaland

[Alastair]

Oblivion isn't an IP. It is a one off piece of creativity. It's an icon.

Harry Potter is an IP. Disney is an IP. Oblivion is not an IP.

(Before this post gets jumped on, I am going to clarify. Everyone knows what is meant by "AN" IP, rather that simply IP meaning of course intellectual property. A piece of music is IP, a drawing, anything made by someones intellect is by definition IP. When someone refers to AN IP in these terms, it's obvious it's referring a large widely recognised consumer/entertainment brand etc)

Anything Alton Towers has generated itself is an IP. Any piece of original creativity essentially. Oblivion's theme is most certainly an IP, it's fairly detailed and has a defined characteristic. I don't see the issue with them reusing it in one of their others parks. It is literally no different from what the big parks do - after all, Disney create all of their films themselves and then build multiple rides based around them. How is it different at all?

 

[TheMan]

How is it different at all?

Because the idea of Disney is to create mass marketable brands. When people go to a Disney park there's a certain thing they'll expect to experience and Disney aim to provide that, when people visit independent theme parks with no supporting films etc, there's little reason to essentially clone what is a classic.

I'm not saying it wont be popular, but why use the same brand for what looks like a totally different story?

It weakens the originals theme, which being debated on the other thread, is a world class ride.

Look at the annoyance around N:I, a decent ride, but using the brand again was ridiculous as it didn't make sense, and neither does this.

I'd probably be less annoyed about it if they'd flat out cloned it. At least that way they're respecting the fact the original was an near perfect theme. They just picked and chose bits of the theme that doesn't make sense.

Also, with infinite creative ideas, why reuse them?

It's not like Oblivion is something synonymous with Merlin.

 

[Dave]

Oblivion isn't an IP. It is a one off piece of creativity. It's an icon.

Harry Potter is an IP. Disney is an IP. Oblivion is not an IP.

(Before this post gets jumped on, I am going to clarify. Everyone knows what is meant by "AN" IP, rather that simply IP meaning of course intellectual property. A piece of music is IP, a drawing, anything made by someones intellect is by definition IP. When someone refers to AN IP in these terms, it's obvious it's referring a large widely recognised consumer/entertainment brand etc)

We all know Oblivion isnt an IP, this whole debate has been around the carbon copying of brands over IP's.

That said Neither is Space Mountain, it has no commercial IP source yet Disney copy it in most of their "Magic Kingdom" style parks.

And it doesn't weaken any brand as 99.9% of guests in both parks will never ever know. Yes it's lazy, yes I hate it but pretty much ALL multi-park owners do it.

Inferno isn't comparable as that was a brand copy in the same geogeaphic market place where the whole point was people would notice.

It's simply Merlin cutting corners.

Definately, the point is how is it different from all the other multi-park operators?

As said I hate it and if I was in charge I wouldn't do it, but I don't see this as being a uniquely Merlim problem, compared to their shoddy theming, dodgy planning and over pricing:

 

[Tim]

I'm not offended by them copying the theme. I am by the execution but I'll wait to judge that and you never know the original design might have been more creative that it's worked out.

The name though does bother me. It's a different ride, not a carbon copy. Someone has had to design it so why not spend a few moments to think of a unique name. Oblivion isn't even an Italian word, like I said before they could have called it Oblio, at least then it is different.

 

[_nemesis_]

Disney can so it because all their parks have the exact same brand. The 'Magic Kingdom' parks are all almost exact clones. Merlin's park however are not. They have individual targets, individual brands, and individual rides. There is no reason they should virtually clone one of their own rides at a sister park. They're sisters, not twins.

 

[smudge]

Wasn't it shown on a m£rlin presentation that it WILL be called 'Oblivion'?

Personally not bothered, I've never been (and never will go) to Gardaland & would happily take Raptor as SW8. Yes its lazy, but why on earth would they not copy successful brands, ones that they have derived themselves too. I would... An example of this that I can think of is a teacher re-using a lesson plan for multiple classes. I know some of you can relate

 

[Sazzle]

This now begs the question..

Do we start to view all Merlin parks with a Six Flags running theme? Rides being installed of the same variety, with the same theme/name...?

I do hope not. If we end up with the amount of Oblivion and Nemesis names as Batman, I'll cry!

 

[_nemesis_]

With them all being so close together (in the UK) I doubt it would go down too well with the GP.

They would lose the power of "well that was good, now we need to go to Alton Towers" if they all became the same.

 

[Rob]

For me Disney's 'copying' is totally different. A Disney castle park is expected to have certain rides to an extent. Things like Space Mountain, Big Thunder, Haunted Mansion and It's a Small World etc are part and parcel of the parks. Funnily enough Disney are having a complete re-think in Shanghai. But the point is that people almost expect some of these staple rides from Disney. You don't however go to a Merlin park expecting a Nemesis, an Oblivion and a Raptor.

Maybe Merlin do want their parks to lose their individuality though? I'm not sure, I can't think they would. They have the Legoland parks for that which are more comparable to Disney in the way rides are rolled out. Merlin's resort theme parks are all individual and for that reason I feel they should have their own rides and themes rather than being lazy and taking copying previous successful themes.

It's the type of thing that Cedar Fair and Six Flags have done in the past, especially Six Flags. Although they do use pre-existing IPs that they rights to use so even that is slightly different.

 

[TheMan]

It's the type of thing that Cedar Fair and Six Flags have done in the past, especially Six Flags. Although they do use pre-existing IPs that they rights to use so even that is slightly different.

Just how do they get away with calling such different rides names with big IPs?

Perhaps there aren't as many as I think, but how many Batmans can you have lol?

EDIT: In fact that's another point about a ride losing identity. Space Mountain. Most people know a Disney has one, it's part OF the Disney parks IP, therefore you want a go on it - it's almost as synonymous with the parks as the characters themselves nowadays in being instantly recognisable.

They also, always, look brilliant - for someone who's never been to one, the pictures online, they do look epic.

Merlin just don't have the brand to do this, and instead of being creative and coming up with something new and exciting they're taking what was a classic for Alton Towers, and half baking it into a goodness knows what.

As for comments about more in depth story lines backing up a theme. This isn't the best example what enthusiasts wanted in a deeper story/theme.

BECAUSE IT'S CRAP!!!!

THIS HAS A FULL EDITORIAL/VIDEOS ETC, AND...

IT STILL MAKES NO SENSE

 

[Dave]

Unlike Six Flags though Merlin to give then credit are not copying brands in similar geographical areas UNLIKE Tussauds who did in the end. Merlin stopped the duplication of rides and Brands we got with Tussauds such as Inferno/ nemesis, Spinball/ Dragon, Stealth/ Rita in the same country.

So I see them as a bit better than the Six Flags model

 

[Martin]

It's tacky and lazy, showing a lack of ideas, enthusiasm and makes a mockery of the original. But it's in Italy, in a park I'll probably never go to, meanwhile the original, better ride is 90 minutes away. So I'll not lose sleep over it.

And I'd be happy if they made an exact copy of Raptor at Alton, it still seems to me to be the best wingrider that B&M have made and the best themed Merlin coaster. Wouldn't be delighted but certainly wouldn't say no to it.

 

[Rob]

A few photos from Damylv on TPR:

It really does look horrible!

 

[Martin]

More theming than I expected. But I expected pretty much nothing, so don't think I'm praising it.

That helix looks arbitrarily, needlessly high, could they not have built it closer to the ground?

 

[Ted]

Merlin build a completely white coaster which will get dirtier far quicker and they won't clean it, it's like they're a self parody. The very least they could have done was make the supports and rails black so it would look a bit better.

 

[TheMan]

Merlin build a completely white coaster which will get dirtier far quicker and they won't clean it, it's like they're a self parody. The very least they could have done was make the supports and rails black so it would look a bit better.

They couldn't apparently. The whole thing as white doesn't make sense though because as you say it's not like it will stay clean.

 

[Benzin]

To get the ride built it had to be white, much like Flug...

 

[DiogoJ42]

"No, you must paint everything white. Black is not allow- oh, never mind."

 

[Dave]

Must be a height thing, it's a stupid rule!

 

[DiogoJ42]

Stupid doesn't come close. White is not going to make a structure any less visible. If they are that concerned, then paint everything pale blue / grey.