General Queue Times Discussion

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Craig, 12th Apr 2021.

  1. Matt.GC

    Matt.GC TowersStreet Member

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    Since Academies became a thing, this has been alot harder to guage. Although North Somerset in general broke up Friday, one Academy trust my younger 2 are under did this, my eldest sons school which is run by a South Bristolian trust have their final day today. Went to Woodlands yesterday in Devon, schools must have been still on down there as it was really quiet. Loads of families speaking with south east accents and very few local.
     
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  2. JAperson

    JAperson TowersStreet Member

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    Its not just the academies its also the local councils. They are also controlling the term dates particularly. I think its all very complicated but sometimes certain schools will end up working on different term dates to others in the county due to there academy being in a different county. As happened with me a few years ago. This makes it hard to predict when term time is for most attractions.

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  3. AstroDan

    AstroDan TS Forum Team Team Member

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    The vast majority of academies maintain local authority term dates.

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  4. Ethan

    Ethan TowersStreet Member

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    Anyone know what the operations are for Galactica and oblivion atm. I've noticed those 2 with long queues so are they on reduced capacity or something (both on 1 station?)
     
  5. JAperson

    JAperson TowersStreet Member

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    oblivions queue are ridiculous overstated. 40 mins advertised with at 10 minute queue. I have seen it a few times. Galactica seems to be on one station a lot at the moment probably due to staff shortages.
     
  6. John

    John TowersStreet Member

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    It was the other way round yesterday - Galactica on 3 trains with a queue much less than the posted time, whilst Oblivion was on one station and apparently one of the longest queues for most of the day. I wasn't tempted to find out how accurate (or otherwise) those times were. Galactica seems to be stuck on 1 station during the week though.
     
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  7. Matt N

    Matt N TowersStreet Member

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    Is Oblivion’s theoretical throughput on 1 station notably lower than on 2, or does 2 stations just help the staff to maintain a more consistent throughput? (I’m assuming that it’s far easier to get a consistently high throughput when you’ve got a longer interval to check 32 riders than if you’ve got a shorter interval to check 16 riders)
     
  8. Ethan

    Ethan TowersStreet Member

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    Well I imagine it pretty much halves the throughput, hence the diabolical throughput whenever it's on 1 station
     
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  9. Alsty

    Alsty TowersStreet Member

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    Why would the interval be different? There's two hosts assigned to check each shuttle, so in theory it takes the same amount of time to check one shuttle as it does to check two.

    Another factor I noticed on my last visit was one of the hosts was doing both the bayloading and checking harnesses (and not doing a particularly good job of multitasking). A few times they were so distracted with the bays they were holding up the dispatches.
     
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  10. spinba11

    spinba11 TowersStreet Member

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    When do they open the air gate on Oblivion?
     
  11. Matt N

    Matt N TowersStreet Member

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    I wouldn’t think it would be quite that simple, as surely some throughput must be gained from not having trains needing to wait at the bottom of the lift hill like they would on 2 stations? On dual load, the cars in the station can’t dispatch until both cars from the previous dispatch have cleared the lift hill (taking approx. 60 seconds), whereas on single load, they’d surely only need to wait for 1 car to clear the lift hill (taking approx. 30 seconds), or possibly even only for the car in front to clear the block before the lift hill (taking 5-10 seconds at most).

    I could be completely wrong there, however…
    Apologies, I should have phrased myself more clearly.

    What I meant was; Oblivion has a theoretical throughput of 1,900pph. Technically, it wouldn’t be impossible to attain that on one station, but it would require merely 30 seconds between dispatches of singular 16 rider cars, which is probably extremely hard to achieve in practice. And when your required dispatch interval is so short, there’s little margin for error, so if operations even slightly miss the mark, then it will have a profound impact on throughput.

    By comparison, if you do dual loading, it doubles the amount of riders sent out with each dispatch to 32, thus meaning that you could do a dual dispatch every 60 seconds to attain the same throughput. With the time interval being longer, the allowed margin for error is greater, and slight operational slip-ups have less of an impact on overall throughputs. Doing dual load is presumably more akin to dealing with a coaster with less trains of more riders (Oblivion when dispatching 2 cars at once has the same number of riders as a Nemesis train within 1 dispatch), therefore maintaining consistently fast dispatches is perhaps somewhat less important, and a higher throughput can be attained more easily & consistently due to the dispatch interval being longer, therefore the margin for error being greater.

    Is that making a little more sense?
     
    Last edited: 27th Jul 2021
  12. Matt N

    Matt N TowersStreet Member

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    I wouldn’t think it would be quite that simple, as surely some throughput must be gained from not having trains needing to wait at the bottom of the lift hill like they would on 2 stations? On dual load, the cars in the station can’t dispatch until both cars from the previous dispatch have cleared the lift hill, whereas on single load, they’d surely only need to wait for 1 car to clear the lift hill?

    I could be completely wrong there, however…
    EDIT: Could the mods please delete this, if they wouldn’t mind; I’m posting this in my post above.
     
  13. rob666

    rob666 TowersStreet Member

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    Simply put Matt, Oblivion appears to double its throughput when operating both "stations".
    It has done this for nearly a quarter of a century.
    Seems very obvious, you are overcomplicating things!
     
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  14. Dave

    Dave TS Founding Member

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    You are not factoring in the second shuttle parking, if you watch Oblivion on single station mode from the point the first shuttle is dispatched to the next shuttle parking you have already eaten into 15-20 seconds of your 30 second dispatch time to achieve theoretical throughout on one station op.

    You can’t practically speed up guest boarding on one station compared to two, so you effectively halve the total number of guests per dispatch.

    The train waiting at the bottom of the lift hill isn’t impacting throughout as it’s only taking up time still being used to board the next set of shuttles. Even in its early days when they really pushed throughputs it was very rare that a dispatch was held up because shuttle 2 hadn’t cleared the next block (they can start the dispatch sequence before the 2nd shuttle gets to the top of the lift hill, you just might get a slight pause at the bottom of the lift hill for the next shuttle). With oblivion it’s easier to think of both shuttles as one train rather than two when it comes to throughout and dropping to one station is the equivalent of locking off half the seats on said train.
     
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  15. Skyscraper

    Skyscraper TowersStreet Member

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    It's possible that they were a staff member down, so that person had to do two roles.
     
  16. Matt N

    Matt N TowersStreet Member

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    Ah, apologies; when it comes to throughputs, I always have a tendency to assume that it’s probably not as simple as I initially assume it is, so I guess I subconsciously add elements of “difficulty” so to speak in order to make it seem more nuanced than it is.

    In this case, though, it would appear it really is as simple as it appears…

    So would I be right in saying that if Oblivion gets 1,000pph on 2 stations (hypothetically speaking), it would get 500pph on 1?
     
  17. Alsty

    Alsty TowersStreet Member

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    Perhaps it is clearer if they're plotted on a graph. If you dispatch one shuttle (16 riders) every minute, the throughput is the same if you dispatch two shuttles (32 riders) every two minutes, i.e. 960pph.

    Since it doesn't take twice as long to check and dispatch two shuttles (even with the differences in parking etc), the throughput must be higher on two station operation.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Rick

    Rick TowersStreet Member

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    I can get more interested in capacity if @Alsty is going to produce graphs.
     
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  19. Plastic Person

    Plastic Person TowersStreet Member

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    This also seems like the perfect time for @Rick to share his classic memory of when he witnessed two Oblivion shuttles engaged with the lift hill chain at once in 1998.

    Sure you did buddy, sure you did.
     
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  20. Rick

    Rick TowersStreet Member

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    I realise this makes me sound like a flat earther, but it happened.
     
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