Incident on The Smiler 02/06/2015

[TheBeast]

I think that was why the block brakes didn't stop them- they were overridden by the operators. I don't really know why though (and none of us do, obviously), as a whole carriage is quite hard to miss in all honesty. Its another weird coincidence we can only speculate about, if I am honest

 

[AirFAN]

How likely is it the park would be able to ensure the ride doesn't stall again? The media are likely to take more of an interest given the recent events if this was ever to occur - "Disaster ride stalls again". Even with a more robust block system in place the media are still likely to have a field day.

 

[PeteA]

I agree, but as we know the block system did it's job initially in stopping the train at the top of lift 1. It was there for at least 5 minutes. If the ride randomly restarted itself then there was something very badly wrong with the block system. Now I assume all blocks can be manually reset, otherwise a coaster would never get going again after a stall. If, and I do emphasises the if, something like this happened there would have been a clear failure by both the ride system and staff to identify a stalled train (as well as a procedural failure). If a stalled train had been identified you would imagine that the ride would immediately have been E-stopped, even after the block had done it's job, and a standard lift-evac would take place.

This is they key to all of this. It also speaks volumes that Gerstlauer multi car coaster are still continuing to operate outside of Merlin parks around the world.

 

[AirFAN]

I also find it bizarre the media hasn't mentioned the manufacturer in any of their reports. Why isn't Sky (for example) inviting Gerst on for an interview?

 

[Rick]

@phildenholm Increasing the lift hill speed will just get the train to the top faster, it bears no relation to the speed of the train on the track. Think of a marble run, if you place a marble at the top it will roll down, if it encounters a hill it doesn't have the momentum to get up then it stalls, it doesn't matter how fast you push the marble to the top of the hill it will still roll down a the same speed.

It's not so much about the speed it climbs the lift hill, it's about the speed at which it begins it descent (which is more often than not the same). Take an Intamin coaster with a cable lift like Goliath or Millennium Force, you crest the lift hill three or four times faster than you do than on most coasters with a traditional chain lift.

If the train 'departs' the lift and goes into freefall at 20mph (like the above), rather than 5mph - the speed at which the train is travelling at the base of the first hill is faster, no? Someone get their Hot Wheels cars out, we'll check.

@Nemesis94 all good reasons why a stall could happen, except the burst tyre, I am not aware of any coaster with inflatable wheels, they are solid plastic or rubber usually (different compounds of plastic give different speed).

S&S built a couple of coasters with pneumatic tyres, for reasons I am not sure they are willing to talk about now. Hypersonic used them and maybe Dodonpa too? Not sure, didn't look.

I also find it bizarre the media hasn't mentioned the manufacturer in any of their reports. Why isn't Sky (for example) inviting Gerst on for an interview?

The same reason they don't invite Porsche or Lambo on when a celebrity wraps one around a lamp post in Hollywood.

 

[Dave]

I agree, but as we know the block system did it's job initially in stopping the train at the top of lift 1. It was there for at least 5 minutes. If the ride randomly restarted itself then there was something very badly wrong with the block system. Now I assume all blocks can be manually reset, otherwise a coaster would never get going again after a stall. If, and I do emphasises the if, something like this happened there would have been a clear failure by both the ride system and staff to identify a stalled train (as well as a procedural failure). If a stalled train had been identified you would imagine that the ride would immediately have been E-stopped, even after the block had done it's job, and a standard lift-evac would take place.

That is obviously the other potential cause, I doubt operators can override the block system (they can't on other coasters) but tech services probably can.

Im uneasy delving too much into the human error side of things what with the press attention and peoples feelings so soon after though so will leave that well alone.

 

[Rob]

How likely is it the park would be able to ensure the ride doesn't stall again? The media are likely to take more of an interest given the recent events if this was ever to occur - "Disaster ride stalls again". Even with a more robust block system in place the media are still likely to have a field day.

You make a good point, if it does stall again and any of the public catch on (or even us for that matter) the tabloids will be all over it, even if it is a fairly 'normal' thing to happen. The main reason for the stalling on The Smiler is design flaw, only re-profiling would help aid this. I can't see it being re-profiled though.

Anyway, here is the latest statement from Merlin in full:

"Since the accident of last Tuesday we have done our best to provide appropriate communication and support to those involved and to their families.

"We absolutely recognise what a difficult time this is for everyone, especially those who have been so seriously injured, and we have tried to do this in a way that is both sensitive and appropriate.

"Over the course of the weekend we have written again to all of the 16 people involved or to their families. These letters were all hand delivered by Alton Towers representatives.

"Irrespective of the outcome of the current investigations into the causes of the accident, in these letters we have accepted full responsibility to those who had been injured in the accident and confirmed that we will ensure that compensation will be provided to them.

"We have recommended each of the injured guests or their families instruct a lawyer and submit a claim for compensation which we will ensure is dealt with swiftly and sensitively.

"In addition we have engaged the services of Health and Case Management Ltd (HCML) – a leading firm of specialist independent rehabilitation providers - to provide all of those involved with the best support for their individual needs whether from the NHS or by providing additional support and services.

"HCML have already made contact with some of those affected in order to progress this."

 

[Alexsutton]

Although the stall itself wasn't the critical fault here, others have raised the interesting point that if The Smiler stalls again in operation it does seem pretty likely to cause panic and bad press after this incident, even if the system and staff react to the stall appropriately. I wonder if that is something they will consider once the cause of this accident is resolved.

 

[Dave]

Although the stall itself wasn't the critical fault here, others have raised the interesting point that if The Smiler stalls again in operation it does seem pretty likely to cause panic and bad press after this incident, even if the system and staff react to the stall appropriately. I wonder if that is something they will consider once the cause of this accident is resolved.

Purely from a quality point of view I wish they had reprofiled 3 parts of the Smiler. The stall point and the two big jolts, guess it isn't a cheap job though and if you trusted your safety systems not top priority.

They may re-explore the options now though I guess.

 

[Slugjc]

Merlin have done the first step into major damage limitation, and lets face it this is a good thing. To actually send someone to deliver the letter. Great touch. It gives the person involved a human touch that is always lacking these days. However I would not like the job of giving the letter. The people involved, even if they wanted to see them or not, they now have a face to relate to merlin with. Now all that's left is to see how the families react.

 

[Rob]

Towers was said to be very quiet yesterday. Well it looks like today is even more dead; the only attraction reporting a queue on ridetimes is Mr Bloom's Allotment (10 mins). Everything else is a 0 min wait.

 

[Rick]

Towers was said to be very quiet yesterday. Well it looks like today is even more dead; the only attraction reporting a queue on ridetimes is Mr Bloom's Allotment (10 mins). Everything else is a 0 min wait.

I guess it will take a little time for it to become clear why it is so quiet, it could be for a multitude of reasons but amongst the key ones I suspect it will be along the lines of:

1. General apprehension about visiting after the accident – completely understandable, of course
2. An understanding of the fact that half the rides on the ‘Thrill’ tab of Ride Times are closed and people will wait for them to reopen
3. Finally – the fact the park was closed until Sunday and yesterday was the first ‘working day’ where people could make the decision as to whether to book the day off or not, will play a part.

 

[phildenholm]

Purely from a quality point of view I wish they had reprofiled 3 parts of the Smiler. The stall point and the two big jolts, guess it isn't a cheap job though and if you trusted your safety systems not top priority.

They may re-explore the options now though I guess.

I guess now its going to be closed for far longer than normally possible it might happen. I accept your point about stalling on track being a fairly regular event but I do think something needs to be done to reduce the likely hood of this happening, as its been pointed out Nemesis has never and will likely never stall.

Regards the speed of the hill lift not changing anything I disagree, as someone else has already pointed out if the car enters the area doing 20 mph rather than 5 mph it is far less likely to stall on track.

Nice to see Merlin are still doing a good job of looking after the 16 guests, I guess this is so far the one good thing to come out of this tragic incident

 

[jon81uk]

Regards the speed of the hill lift not changing anything I disagree, as someone else has already pointed out if the car enters the area doing 20 mph rather than 5 mph it is far less likely to stall on track.

The speed of the lift hill doesn't determine the speed the car will travel on the track. Gravity and potential energy do, all the lift hill does is get it to the top of the hill. Think of Oblivion, if I speed up the lift hill, will the car drop quicker?

Launched coasters don't have lift hills such as the Incredible Hulk at IoA or Rita or Stealth, these are fired up the incline or along the track either by wheels or a cable at very high speed and therefore the start speed is based on the speed you are accelerated to by the launch, not the potential energy at the top of the drop.

So yes, you could replace the chain lift with a launch but then it is an entirely different type of coaster and it may affect the ride in other areas, such as needing more brakes or just being uncomfortable.

 

[Rob]

I have seen that yesterday on the coasters, trains were not being dispatched from the station until the other train had come to a stop in the final brakes. It appears this could be the extra level of safety, or it could be a temporary measure whilst the park is quiet.

 

[Nemesis94]

@Nemesis94 all good reasons why a stall could happen, except the burst tyre, I am not aware of any coaster with inflatable wheels, they are solid plastic or rubber usually (different compounds of plastic give different speed).

I am no expert so I am sure there are engineers that know a lot more!

The plastic/rubber wheel tyres can burst (or explode for want of a better word) if they get too hot/old. The little "mud guard" on the back of the Smiler's wheelset is not just for aesthetics, its to protect the riders from bits of plastic that could fly off if it happens.

Most coaster don't need these, as the floor of the ride car will protect you in such cases (hence why the Smiler often runs without them). The B&M floorless coasters have no such protection, hence each of the main running wheels has a little metal guard around it (as visible here http://www.coastergallery.com/1999/medusa10.jpg).

 

[Tarquin]

The speed of the lift hill doesn't determine the speed the car will travel on the track. Gravity and potential energy do, all the lift hill does is get it to the top of the hill. Think of Oblivion, if I speed up the lift hill, will the car drop quicker?

Launched coasters don't have lift hills such as the Incredible Hulk at IoA or Rita or Stealth, these are fired up the incline or along the track either by wheels or a cable at very high speed and therefore the start speed is based on the speed you are accelerated to by the launch, not the potential energy at the top of the drop.

So yes, you could replace the chain lift with a launch but then it is an entirely different type of coaster and it may affect the ride in other areas, such as needing more brakes or just being uncomfortable.

What I think people are referring to is the fact that if it starts off from the lift hill (down the first drop) at a higher speed than before, in theory it should be able to reach a higher speed at the bottom of the drop because it's starting at a faster speed already. Your comparison with Oblivion doesn't work because it doesn't go straight into a drop and in fact has a brake at the top to regulate the speed that the shuttles go into said drop.

I'm sure somebody will be able to explain it much better than I can though!

 

[Duffins]

They drop down to 3 ppl max when it rains on sonic already. So they already had some weather related procedures in place.

Not sure why the drop to 3 but it happens.

It's just the additional weight and the less effectiveness of the brakes in the wet, basically.

The changes they are having trouble making quickly are intriguing though.

Both Dragons Fury and Sonic Spin ball operate a lighter car weight in the wet due to the no braked block sections eg fury transfer track and station. Cars have "Slipped through" the transfer block and continued into the station (at a low speed) causing a system shutdown and ride evac and handing back over to engineering.

Also Fury has stalled previously between brake one and brake two.

I would presume that the changes being made are including updated cctv to fury as it is of poor quality and to the left of the operator and not directly in front. Makes it hard to use in real life unless in a shut down situation because the station is to the right

 

[Dave]

The speed of the lift hill doesn't determine the speed the car will travel on the track. Gravity and potential energy do, all the lift hill does is get it to the top of the hill. Think of Oblivion, if I speed up the lift hill, will the car drop quicker?

Launched coasters don't have lift hills such as the Incredible Hulk at IoA or Rita or Stealth, these are fired up the incline or along the track either by wheels or a cable at very high speed and therefore the start speed is based on the speed you are accelerated to by the launch, not the potential energy at the top of the drop.

So yes, you could replace the chain lift with a launch but then it is an entirely different type of coaster and it may affect the ride in other areas, such as needing more brakes or just being uncomfortable.

If you speed up the lift hill you are giving the train more potential energy, so it will progress around the track faster. But the difference will be small.

 

[Dave]

Towers was said to be very quiet yesterday. Well it looks like today is even more dead; the only attraction reporting a queue on ridetimes is Mr Bloom's Allotment (10 mins). Everything else is a 0 min wait.

It's not too quiet, Air & Octonauts is at 30min, Th13teen 25min, Nemesis 20.

For a Tuesday in term time it's a bit longer than you would expect actually but then factor in the closed rides and your probably looking at normal numbers