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Lightwater Valley

Rick said:
"They" is a bit of a misnomer when it comes to that park. The planning permission was obtained by Heritage, who sold the park to Livingstone who have now sold it to Brighton Pier. The park has transformed quite considerably in that time, for good or for ill, depending on your point of view, against the background of a pandemic.

I don't think the lack of thrill rides is inherently problematic, it's a very nice part of the world and people stay locally without access to any entertainment or rides. It'll come down to how it's priced and marketed.

I think your conclusion may well be right. Brighton are still working out what to do with the park, there were some specific challenges with The Ultimate, but ultimately ;) it was a bit Hobson's Choice given the widescale removals and sales under Livingstone who tried to model the park around Flambards in terms of the offer and how it was operated. Adding that ride back into the offering without three or four other significant rides would have been difficult to pull off.
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Surely the planning permission is attached to the property rather than the owners though - you can sell a house that has already has planning permission approved for an extension so I'd assume this would follow the same pattern. Plus, they've had planning permission since at least 2012 (maybe 2005, but the documents aren't complete on the planning portal) to build some form of holiday lodgings and they had steady ownership from 2001 to 2017.

I agree it's not inherently problematic not aiming at the thrill market, but when you look at other similar offerings in the area I'm not sure why you'd pick LWV over Flamingoland unless the price point was very competitive or they went for a more 'quality' lodging option. I suspect that Brighton Pier Group won't be building luxury chalets if they build anything at all. It'll be whatever they can throw up cheapest to get some extra income.

Livingstone did remove a huge chunk of rides without decent replacement, but I think you could have brought back the Ultimate if you still had Raptor Attack to supplement but you're right, bringing just the Ultimate back was definitely unfeasible without bringing in more attractions of the same ilk.

I think they've painted themselves out of huge target market though, when I was younger our school offered a trip to LWV as an incentive for good behavior, there's no chance you'd take a school trip there now unless it was a primary school.
 
I think the planning for lodges was time limited, and that time is now up.
They would have to reapply now.
Waste of a really good well located family park in a woodland setting.
Lack of investment on a regular basis, change of ownership and management, slow slip down the hill.
Had some fantastic days there over the years.
 
@Fuct 100%, the planning permission moves with the ownership. I was trying (and perhaps failing) to suggest that the ambition to do anything with it maybe wouldn't.

I think each owner has struggled to work out where to peg the business and have perhaps been somewhat stifled by decisions made before their tenure.

I think in part investment has perhaps been difficult to come across because it's not a great proposition. A new threat in the form of Gulliver's Valley and Flamingo Land moving forwards (sometimes backwards) are almost certainly factors.

What it couldn't have been is what it always was. It stood alongside Camelot, American Adventure, Granada Studios, Pleasure Island etc in terms of scale. All parks can't grow and grow, there just isn't the demand for it.
 
It might be for the parks long term benefit it has picked an approach (younger kids) and gone for it. I imagine their best bet would be make the place appealling and be bought out by Gullivers
 
That's a pretty dull sentiment.

I did congratulate Kings Island at the time though on Twitter for the Beast claiming the second longest in the world. Now there's some good fun.
 
I do agree that in theory it's not going to be possible for all parks to keep on growing. At the same time, over the last 20 years the UK theme park industry has contracted quite a bit while the population has grown significantly. You could explain some of this with the fact the UK also has an aging population, increased competition from 'midway' style attractions and maybe the industry becoming too bloated in the early 2000s, but that only goes so far.

There have been a couple of notable accidents which accelerated any problems at the park, but I don't think they fully explain it. The changes in ownership probably haven't helped either. But to an extent the accidents and ownership changes might be a symptom of underlying problems as well as the cause.

The fact so many young people spend such a high proportion of their income on housing, are in poorly paid insecure jobs, and the UK economy doing badly is obviously a factor. I don't think the decline of Lightwater Valley was in any way inevitable though.
 
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Even with Exodus' impressive size, it might even hit that too five.

That ride will be compensation for something if you know what I mean and get the joke. ;)
 
Funcone said:
The fact so many young people spend such a high proportion of their income on housing, are in poorly paid insecure jobs, and the UK economy doing badly is obviously a factor. I don't think the decline of Lightwater Valley was in any way inevitable though.
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Is it a decline or is it just a transition to something that makes more sense to operate in the current climate on that site in that location ? From the owner's perspective, I suspect what they are doing will not be a decline and represent growth with the removal of some fairly eye watering costs.

I suspect the Big One is shorter now with the reconfiguration of the turnaround, but that it is still longer than Silver Star.
 
It depends how you look at it, but I think to most people it would be a decline. It's like saying, "My football club's been relegated a couple of times, but it might be a success because we won't have to spend as much on players". I understand where you're coming from, but certainly in the context of the Towers Street Forum it feels like a decline.
 
Fair but I would argue it's not like a football club though. Anyone who is a fan of a club wants their team to play the best, most high profile football.

The changes that the park has made are opening up to a new audience and arguably taking it back to what it started as and perhaps what it should have remained.
 
The football team comparison is a little skewed TBH as nowadays there is more than just a team winning games as if anything there is more money to be made from the hospitality industry as it helps those clubs that don't have the luxury of a big PL type TV deal, little wonder why many clubs have jumped into that and in some ways maybe Lightwater see that as more a successful business venture despite what many on TS and many other enthusiasts will say.

Time will tell ofc if this will see the park thrive in the long term and even if it does prove successful despite many naysayers, then you could say it was a right choice.
 
QTXAdsy said:
The football team comparison is a little skewed TBH as nowadays there is more than just a team winning games as if anything there is more money to be made from the hospitality industry as it helps those clubs that don't have the luxury of a big PL type TV deal, little wonder why many clubs have jumped into that and in some ways maybe Lightwater see that as more a successful business venture despite what many on TS and many other enthusiasts will say.

Time will tell ofc if this will see the park thrive in the long term and even if it does prove successful despite many naysayers, then you could say it was a right choice.
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That might be true, but I doubt you'll hear many football fans saying, "We got relegated, but we sold plenty of wedding receptions and hosted the local sixth form centre's prom, so overall it was a good season.
 
Funcone said:
That might be true, but I doubt you'll hear many football fans saying, "We got relegated, but we sold plenty of wedding receptions and hosted the local sixth form centre's prom, so overall it was a good season.
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Unless you're the chairman! As long as the money is flowing in despite what others might think, those at the top won't care and if the same is happening with Lightwater if this change of direction is actually working then they'll be thinking the same.
 
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