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Nemesis Reborn: General Discussion

Nemesis was always at its best before the loop. Excellent layout. Now it seems even more so.

The first drop right up to the pull up of the loop is probably smoother than it's ever been (maybe). And it's brilliant.

But then that's where things go down hill against the original for our "Rebo". It then starts rattling and tapping your ass like you're some sort of 'naughty' boy/girl. But it's very subtle, it's more the rather loud rattling of the drip trays that draws your attention to it.

In reality, it's pretty much the same speed that it's ever been. So it's probably perceptual as to whether anyone finds it more or less intense. I rode the original from 1994 more than any coaster on earth and was very used to it. I knew exactly, without giving it a thought, when to put my head forward and tense my neck through both corkscrews and the zero-g to avoid any head banging so it wasn't a problem for me. The distinctive roar made it feel more intense to me, but it's probably exerting similar forces on my body as it did before. That's fine, because theme park attractions are supposed to manipulate your senses through design. And it did indeed feel more intense later in the season.

Despite my familiarity with it, it's sustained intensity used to hit home when I hadn't ridden it in a while. Rides on Nemesis after a period of absence were always the best for me.
 
Steve74 said:
We all have to remember that we are comparing a ride that hasn't even had a year to bed in with a ride that had had 30 years to bed in!
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Exactly. Whilst there will be members who rode since 1994…

Our most recent memories of the OG will be in the last 10 years, at which point it would have still had 20+ years of bedding in.
 
Matt.GC said:
In reality, it's pretty much the same speed that it's ever been. So it's probably perceptual as to whether anyone finds it more or less intense.
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I think this is a really important point. Perception has an important part to play in the ride experience.

The physical nuts and bolts of the ride will always provide a baseline, but it is your perception of the ride that defines your personal experience.

I know the forum has previous discussed at length whether the changes in theme or paint job matter, but in this regard they do.

The ride is now a significantly different colour, which means its contrast with the environment has now changed. And when travelling at high speeds, this can change your perception of how fast you are actually travelling. This is also one of the reasons why night rides often feel more intense, because the colour profile of the experience has changed.

Also, the ride now has significantly more theming elements around it, which means that during your ride your attention is being pulled in more directions, especially in places where previously you'd be more focused on the sensation of the ride itself. This means that even if you're still travelling at broadly the same speed, your mind is 'travelling' faster, as it takes in the helicopter and the gun and the eye as you whizz by.
 
Exactly this. We all experience senses differently as we are all built differently.

I don't like the new theme as much as others, and the old theme, thundering red water, and distinctive roar draw my attention to happy memories riding it. If you don't have those memories, then your experience is likely to be different to mine.

It's a bit like when you hear a crap piece of music and crank the volume up. Others look at you weird, but it takes you to a place when you were happy.

It's likely that those that prefer Nemesis now are more partial to the new sensory experience it provides. It's likely that I prefer the original because my brain is trained with nostalgia. But the physical experience between the two is probably miniscule in reality. My attention is drawn to old the music, the roar, and how it used to be in the 90's because it made me happy. Others may like helicopters etc and focus on that.

It's interesting that I was extremely disappointed when I rode Rebo for the first time. But in reality, I was probably trying to not like it because I didn't like the theming direction it went in. But a few more rides, and coming to terms with the change, and I started to enjoy it more.

I think it's why artistic direction and theming are so important. I don't think I'd like Nemesis half as much if it was built above ground on a car park
 
The comments about perception are very interesting.

With regard to the theming; I am a big fan of the new theming and aesthetic, but other than the smoke, I didn’t really find myself noticing any of it from on-ride. The improvements were mainly from off-ride for me.

Because of the way those invert trains are, I don’t really think you see an awful lot unless you’re sat in the front, and I’m yet to have a front row ride on Nemesis Reborn (and only ever had 2 or 3 on the original, from memory).

One interesting thing I have found about Nemesis is that I have sometimes had a previous tendency to do the ride down somewhat when I haven’t ridden it in a while, but when I get back on it, it seems to go up in my estimations again and I remember how much I actually like it. With the ride having been shut for a year, perhaps that’s a contributor to my relatively rosy opinion of Nemesis Reborn compared to the original?
 
Matt N said:
but other than the smoke, I didn’t really find myself noticing any of it from on-ride.
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On the front row it can be pretty good going through the cloud, but I would arue it is mainly an off-ride thing, watching it impact the smoke adds more kenetic energy to the land and makes it more intresting similar to the eye, standing at the turn arround and seeing the train appear through the smoke can look really good at times
 
Matt N said:
The comments about perception are very interesting.

With regard to the theming; I am a big fan of the new theming and aesthetic, but other than the smoke, I didn’t really find myself noticing any of it from on-ride. The improvements were mainly from off-ride for me.

Because of the way those invert trains are, I don’t really think you see an awful lot unless you’re sat in the front, and I’m yet to have a front row ride on Nemesis Reborn (and only ever had 2 or 3 on the original, from memory).

One interesting thing I have found about Nemesis is that I have sometimes had a previous tendency to do the ride down somewhat when I haven’t ridden it in a while, but when I get back on it, it seems to go up in my estimations again and I remember how much I actually like it. With the ride having been shut for a year, perhaps that’s a contributor to my relatively rosy opinion of Nemesis Reborn compared to the original?
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But none of that matters. That's what I'm saying.

I don't like helicopters, warzone themes and shipping containers. I like a loud roar, rivers of blood, and an organic theme.

So I decided the new Nemesis was crap before I even rode it, but warmed to it when I got used to it. But in actual fact, gravity and science hasn't changed since 1994, and definitely hasn't changed between November 2022 and May 2024. Wheel compounds, temperature, lift hill speed, and bearing grease may do, but science doesn't.

I subliminally knew exactly when my ears could potentially smash against the restraints on original Nemesis, and braced as such without thinking about it. Like an impulse, I did so without thinking because my brain was trained to it. A bit like how you can drive home from a place of work without remembering a single thing about the journey through muscle memory. Whereas that's a bigger issue for you, so it would stick in your mind.

There is a difference between the new ride and the old. But it's likely that all of us have different experiences with the old and new, and are creating biases in our heads.

Who knows if it's worse or better now than before? The truth lies in how we all experience it. I was wound up by a mostly boring queue line that mainly gave me views of a laughably cheapo gun, the lift hill, a shipping container and the car parks. Whereas others may have been focusing on the eye, the smoke, and the veins. I remember the old ride so well that I know for certain that those vibrations and loud rattling were never present before. Whereas others wouldn't notice as much and focus on the smoothness of the first half. I was looking for faults whilst others were cooing over the new stuff. Heads turned in different directions, experiencing different things.

But the facts remain that it probably isn't faster or slower than the original to notice a tangible difference. I think the first half is smoother, yet the second half ruined. Others may have a different experience. But it's the same layout and the laws of gravity haven't changed.

The only thing I will say is that it's quite remarkable that it's almost the same speed as the original so early on.
 
I think the new land is a triumph success and has really brought Forbidden valley alive, it already had one of the best landscaped settings of immersion for any land in the uk. But with all its moving animated props, sound affects, smoke effects, tentacles, animated monster screen eye, enclosed entrance theming etc. the way they themed the inside of nemmy to look like your inside him makes it one of the best ride stations in my opinion, it’s completely immersive.

Correct me if I’m wrong but is it’s a worlds first design in track artwork? With the hand stenciled veins? I must admit they pulled it all of so well and really have brought the area back alive.

To me it’s my favorite themed and immersive lands in the whole of the uk, I also feel the theme is very unique worldwide and the tec they use to animate Nemmy eye and with added smoke and animation claws the way it follows the ride and reacts is genius!

One thing Alton doesn’t do is copy and paste it’s beautiful unique, it’s a shame of the recent budget cuts. As with this and curse it was all getting back on track, but we still have these incredible lands/areas it may slow down a little but it will just keep building on this in time I’m sure of it.
 
TBoy535 said:
Correct me if I’m wrong but is it’s a worlds first design in track artwork? With the hand stenciled veins? I must admit they pulled it all of so well and really have brought the area back alive.
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I believe so, yes.

I was surprised at how fresh the track looked at the end of the season. I half expected it to look grubby by the end. I guess the off season will be the true marker with all the wet weather. I’d hope seeing as they must have spent a fortune on the veins they’d want to make sure it looks good every year and give it a good jet wash every closed season. But time will tell.
 
AltonLover123 said:
I believe so, yes.

I was surprised at how fresh the track looked at the end of the season. I half expected it to look grubby by the end. I guess the off season will be the true marker with all the wet weather. I’d hope seeing as they must have spent a fortune on the veins they’d want to make sure it looks good every year and give it a good jet wash every closed season. But time will tell.
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Obviously not to the same level of detail at all but I believe original Nemesis’ track was also hand painted to give the ‘bone’ texture as below. Certainly the photos of the track in the car park waiting to be installed are just plain white/grey.


From: https://x.com/etparchive/status/1572526575094202368?s=46
 
Mi-Nigle said:
I have to assume that that glorious shade of red of the water is a characteristic of the film stock used to take these pictures? I first saw Nemesis in 99 and, from memory, the water colour was more akin to Ribena.
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Probably is enhanced by the film! However, whilst it was usually Ribena coloured I do remember going once when they had just added the dye and it was a properly deep blood red. So I guess it’s maybe how regularly they added the dye that affected it.

Love that photo of the blood river running down from the Helix, with the original track colours. That’s Nemesis as I remember it!
 
JamesP said:
Probably is enhanced by the film! However, whilst it was usually Ribena coloured I do remember going once when they had just added the dye and it was a properly deep blood red. So I guess it’s maybe how regularly they added the dye that affected it.

Love that photo of the blood river running down from the Helix, with the original track colours. That’s Nemesis as I remember it!
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I definitely remember it red like those photos (last time I saw it was 1995, was probably peak maintenance then of course and we typically visited at Easter).
 
JamesP said:
Obviously not to the same level of detail at all but I believe original Nemesis’ track was also hand painted to give the ‘bone’ texture as below. Certainly the photos of the track in the car park waiting to be installed are just plain white/grey.
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Yeah, you’re right. The rust and such was added afterwards.

Though, in its later years it’s a shame they repainted the supports but left them a bluey grey without the rust effect and even the track was noticeably whiter.
 

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On track colours, I think Towers' is getting a bit monotonous personally! I appreciate the detailing, but its's still black (and how long the red veins will last without being jet washed every year I don't know!)

Nemesis: Black tracks, black supports
Th13teen: Black track, black supports
The Smiler: Black track, black supports
Oblivion: Black track, black supports

The only real "colours" we have left are

Rita: dark red, brown supports
Runaway mine train: dark brown, dark brown supports
Wicker Man: light brown
Galactica: light blue, deep green supports
Spinball Whizzer is the only coaster with

The three of those which have more "colour" are all the most likely to go within the next decade!

Welcome to Alton towers! - Where the blackness never ends!
 
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