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Nemesis: Sub-Terra

Personally, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they've altered it to be less actor-led and more akin to something like Hex, where the ride has announcements to guide you through the experience.

That would certainly save a lot on staffing costs and possibly make it a more viable proposition to run long term.
 
If it is actor-free then I would say that makes it *more* likely to be a one-season wonder, as actors were added mainly because of how poorly it was received initially. There's nothing yet to suggest it would be any more popular without actors, unless of course significant money really has been spent. We shall see...it has to actually re-open first.
 
Tom said:
If it is actor-free then I would say that makes it *more* likely to be a one-season wonder, as actors were added mainly because of how poorly it was received initially. There's nothing yet to suggest it would be any more popular without actors, unless of course significant money really has been spent. We shall see...it has to actually re-open first.
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It will likely be completely different to Sub-Terra, and potentially could have some sort of an element or ride that would make up for and nullify the need for actors.
 
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To be fair the actors were removed for its final season which I think many people forget. But the ride still needed 5 staff (operator, two inside, batcher/preshow and baggage) plus add break cover. You actually end up with more staff than Nemesis.

Unfortunately I’m not sure how you can cut staff on it, yes baggage could be removed but what do you do with bags then, without them spending money on cages or some kind of bag system. You’ll always need three staff inside the building. And some kind of batcher person.
 
zeock said:
We don't know what format this will take in 2023, so it might not be actor-heavy, which will make it less likely to close after a short time again.
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It’s not gonna have a major accident on another ride at the park speeding up its closure time either this time
 
Danscott22 said:
It’s not gonna have a major accident on another ride at the park speeding up its closure time either this time
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I think I speak for everyone here when I say I hope the park never have another accident, especially one as damaging as the Smiler.

But, on the flip side, non of us can see into the future. So attempting to factually state the park will never have another accident outright, is false.
 
If the baggage hold went, the only place bags could go would be the ride platform. Which wouldn’t work with the whole escaping after the drop sequence, and that’s before we go on to increased faff and affecting throughput.

By design there’s nothing that can be done to overcome the staffing issue. 5 staff is better than 10/11 they had in the opening year however!

Hopefully it can stay open beyond this year. I guess all depends on how much work has actually taken place on the ride/building, how it fairs with guests this season and what budgets in 2024 look like.
 
DistortAMG said:
I think I speak for everyone here when I say I hope the park never have another accident, especially one as damaging as the Smiler.

But, on the flip side, non of us can see into the future. So attempting to factually state the park will never have another accident outright, is false.
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Jesus Christ obviously me putting that is me obviously not wanting them to have one and it’s incredibly, incredibly unlikely. Didn’t think anyone would nit pick at that, but there we go. I’m aware I don’t have a crystal ball, but I seriously doubt anything will ever happen again.
 
Danscott22 said:
It’s not gonna have a major accident on another ride at the park speeding up its closure time either this time
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There's obviously a clear relationship between the accident and the way they chose to respond to cut costs. But the key word there was "chose". They didn't have to close and remove what they did at the time, including Sub Terra if they didn't want to or had any kind of even medium term strategy. They didn't have to keep everything closed for so long, they didn't have to make the decision to not invest in long term additions and it had no impact on all the axe swinging they did before the accident even occurred.

100% agree with what you're saying though as cutting their cloth accordingly was inevitable, of which I can understand why a cost heavy and not particularly well received attraction like NST was temporarily mothballed. I just think the accident gets blamed a lot for poor decisions over many years both before and since. I mean, in terms of NST it's been sat there for 6 years now. They would have known Submission and Ripsaw where on the way out a long time ago and this is the 7th season of widespread 4pm closes. Other than moving the deck chairs around, Food & Bev offering and CCL have never recovered.
 
Is it just me that thinks Sub Terra isn't coming back? Seems like such a lot of effort to re-install a ride that wasn't that popular to begin with. I could very well be wrong but it just seems so bizarre that they'd revive it. Could it be that they're just cleaning up the exterior so that it isn't such an eyesore?
 
Log Flume's Dennis said:
Is it just me that thinks Sub Terra isn't coming back? Seems like such a lot of effort to re-install a ride that wasn't that popular to begin with. I could very well be wrong but it just seems so bizarre that they'd revive it. Could it be that they're just cleaning up the exterior so that it isn't such an eyesore?
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They’re reinstalling the queue, which would seem like a strange decision to me if it wasn’t reopening or being reused in some form.

Also, the fact that they pretty much haven’t touched it in 7 years and are now doing work could be a pretty big sign that something is coming, in my view. If they didn’t clean it before, why are they cleaning it now?

Furthermore, if they did want to simply touch it up, wouldn’t 2024 be the year to do that rather than this year? There won’t be too much attention on FV this year with Nemesis closed, whereas next year, the attention will come flooding back when Nemesis reopens. With that in mind, surely they’d want it looking at its best for 2024 rather than 2023 if they were simply making it look nicer?

I don’t deny that they could simply be cleaning the exterior, but Sub-Terra reopening or being reused in some form seems more likely to me.
 
Was really excited of the anticipated rumours going around, about Sub Terror return in some form, well until I read this forum…Now I feel depressed.


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It's either going to be another scare maze or it's going to be coming back as sub terra (which they've renewed copyright for) with quite a few changes
 
Maybe it'll be like The Sanctuary was in early 2013, temp scare maze while other rides aren't available. It'd be cheaper to have a handful of scare actors than reconstruct all the internal machinery, which I believe was stripped down and sent to a Dungeons attraction.

Also towards the end of Sub Terra's life, they had issues with wider seats. They had some wider seats put in but then the entrance staff would have to discreetly batch the larger guests into different lines at the start and it just became awkward. I dunno man, there's something fishy about this. Fishier than North American bear droppings.
 
Tom said:
Sub-Terra, at least in its old format, is staff heavy, it will not be a shoo-in to be retained as its operating costs are much higher than a fairground flat which one person can staff. I would say there is a reasonable chance it will remain into 2024, but that it's by no means certain.

A reminder that they are charging £68 before discounts to enter this year. Presumably we will be at about £75 this time next year. They're interested in maximising income without peeving too many guests off and generating damaging "I only got on X rides" comments/reviews online. Sub-Terra has been stood there for years - obviously hired flats were preferential to running it in the past, and that is worth remembering.
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I get that, but there’s a difference between choosing fairground rides over spending money on a ride to get it functional again and actually spending the money on the ride to get it functional again and then still choosing to replace it with flats.

If they bring back NST with any kind of ride hardware (ie not a scare maze) it will be here for the forseeable, I’d be pretty stunned if it wasn’t as it would represent a total waste of resources in getting it functional again.

Obviously it could be a ‘Welcoming’ style attraction in which case, yes, I’d imagine it would only be temporary.
 
Log Flume's Dennis said:
Maybe it'll be like The Sanctuary was in early 2013, temp scare maze while other rides aren't available. It'd be cheaper to have a handful of scare actors than reconstruct all the internal machinery, which I believe was stripped down and sent to a Dungeons attraction.
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As much as I would love a maze that didn't exclusively run at Scarefest, I believe that it will be unlikely that Towers are doing all the work they are on the NST site for whatever is coming to be temporary.
 
Matt.GC said:
There's obviously a clear relationship between the accident and the way they chose to respond to cut costs. But the key word there was "chose". They didn't have to close and remove what they did at the time, including Sub Terra if they didn't want to or had any kind of even medium term strategy. They didn't have to keep everything closed for so long, they didn't have to make the decision to not invest in long term additions and it had no impact on all the axe swinging they did before the accident even occurred.

100% agree with what you're saying though as cutting their cloth accordingly was inevitable, of which I can understand why a cost heavy and not particularly well received attraction like NST was temporarily mothballed. I just think the accident gets blamed a lot for poor decisions over many years both before and since. I mean, in terms of NST it's been sat there for 6 years now. They would have known Submission and Ripsaw where on the way out a long time ago and this is the 7th season of widespread 4pm closes. Other than moving the deck chairs around, Food & Bev offering and CCL have never recovered.
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The Smilers reputation never recovered fully from that accident and the park hasn't either. Had the crash not happened I believe they would have found a way to run this ride on reduced staff. The fines they paid out could have gone towards a decent replacement for Ripsaw if it was BER
 
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