Nemesis: Sub-Terra

[James]

Having not been to the park recently I have a question about the Scare Maze that they held on this site. Did it actually go inside the Sub-Terra building? Or was it just using the queue? Or am I completely ignorant and it just borrowed the attractions theme.

I'm mainly asking because if it used the building it must have passed through the main ride area at some point. The ride system would have had to be in place and in a reasonable condition for this to be allowed as they are structurally integral to the rooms floor.

Also as an aside I'd recommend not responding regarding ML27's pictures until some context is also posted. They've made good posts I'm the past (they were the first one I'm aware of to suggest the structure in the queue could be a viewing platform) but the random pictures don't add anything to the discussion. If these are recent photos we'll likley get an explanation when they realise we aren't giving them the attention they'd expect.

Just to add to the above posts, when you did go through the chamber as a part of Project 42, it was a rather short part of the scare maze (you literally walked quickly through the room and past the egg in the centre) and there was always a staff member in the room (not an actor) to ensure guests did not stay/go wandering/touch anything in the room. That indicates that (at the time) at least there was some form of component of the ride/theming in that room Towers wanted to stay untouched and not become damaged.

 

[Danscott22]

The above post actually brings me to another point. I know some people have said well what if this building is being used as a walkthrough and not the ride? It would be far too short IMO, you’d be out of the building probably like a minute after you’ve entered it. It’s not actually that big and wouldn’t warrant a full queue line rebuild I wouldn’t have thought. I genuinely think it’ll either be the ride, or nothing

 

[Matt N]

The above post actually brings me to another point. I know some people have said well what if this building is being used as a walkthrough and not the ride? It would be far too short IMO, you’d be out of the building probably like a minute after you’ve entered it. It’s not actually that big and wouldn’t warrant a full queue line rebuild I wouldn’t have thought. I genuinely think it’ll either be the ride, or nothing

If that were to be the case, how did it ever function as a scare maze? If they were able to accommodate Project 42 within the building for two Scarefests, then surely a walkthrough attraction would be perfectly feasible?

 

[RIPCorky]

If that were to be the case, how did it ever function as a scare maze? If they were able to accommodate Project 42 within the building for two Scarefests, then surely a walkthrough attraction would be perfectly feasible?

Yep and if it's a small building it will be able to take less people hence it'll get a pretty big queue even for a maze attraction. I don't go in them myself but I remember some whopping queues for them down the years

 

[Danscott22]

If that were to be the case, how did it ever function as a scare maze? If they were able to accommodate Project 42 within the building for two Scarefests, then surely a walkthrough attraction would be perfectly feasible?

Correct me if I’m wrong, but bits were attached before the main building and at the end of it (black tarpaulin) it was also made into a maze section utilising the lift sections. Im just saying with how many different elements the attraction had, I don’t think a standard walkthrough attraction would be suitable. This whole post probably doesn’t make sense but I know what I mean in my own head it worked fine as a scare maze, but as a standard walkthrough with nothing additional attached to it, not sure it would be long enough or warrant a full queue line redo. Apologies if this doesn’t really make sense

 

[James]

Project 42 used different extensions and tents. The Sub-Terra building would be far too small to accommodate a walk-through attraction.

With P42 you had the scaffolding at the old Sub-Terra exit that served as a part of the maze and the finale of the scare maze.





Source: TowersStreet

Then a part of the Sub-Terra queue line had tents/tarpaulin to extend the experience also.





Source: TowersTimes (they have a great gallery on that page of the interior of the maze)

The main issue I found with Project 42 was the length of it. Compared to other mazes in the park it was very short, and not that good at all.

 

[Danscott22]

Project 42 used different extensions and tents. The Sub-Terra building would be far too small to accommodate a walk-through attraction.

With P42 you had the scaffolding at the old Sub-Terra exit that served as a part of the maze and the finale of the scare maze.





Source: TowersStreet

Then a part of the Sub-Terra queue line had tents/tarpaulin to extend the experience also.





Source: TowersTimes (they have a great gallery on that page of the interior of the maze)

The main issue I found with Project 42 was the length of it. Compared to other mazes in the park it was very short, and not that good at all.

This was conveyed much better than how I did it

But yeah I just can’t see it being a walkthrough, particularly if it was cleared off project 42 stuff. They’d have to block off the drop towers again most likely, and I don’t believe they are currently blocked off. I’d have thought they’d have kept them blocked from project 42 days if it was going to be a walkthrough

 

[WillPS]

My guess, and this is all that is...

They've fixed the queue so they have the ability to use the queue, potentially at short notice, this year. I suspect too that the ride has also been serviced and either certified or made ready for certification at short notice, Merlin will have enough experience of maintaining these rides within the group that I'm confident this would be something they could achieve internally.

It's basically a strategic reserve, a rabbit they can potentially pull out of the hat if, say, a major ride went down for a lengthy period (ala Smiler a couple of years ago) or if attendence levels are higher than expected. They are particularly exposed this year because of Nemesis, obviously, but perhaps they think that enough people will be put off by Nemesis being down this year (which has been deliberately very widely publicised) that they can just about get by without it - so long as there's no major upsets along the way.

If they don't need it, happy days - they've lost whatever the cost of cleaning up and redecking a queue is (not much in the grand scheme of things) and regained a useful bit of infrastructure for a future halloween attraction, plus the knowledge that the ride system is potentially good to go for another couple of years (if, say, they have major problems with Nemesis when it reopens).

(Now I've said this, I presume the next post will contain a tweet confirming Sub Terra will be open on March 18th.)

 

[Dave]

My guess, and this is all that is...

They've fixed the queue so they have the ability to use the queue, potentially at short notice, this year. I suspect too that the ride has also been serviced and either certified or made ready for certification at short notice, Merlin will have enough experience of maintaining these rides within the group that I'm confident this would be something they could achieve internally.

It's basically a strategic reserve, a rabbit they can potentially pull out of the hat if, say, a major ride went down for a lengthy period (ala Smiler a couple of years ago) or if attendence levels are higher than expected. They are particularly exposed this year because of Nemesis, obviously, but perhaps they think that enough people will be put off by Nemesis being down this year (which has been deliberately very widely publicised) that they can just about get by without it - so long as there's no major upsets along the way.

If they don't need it, happy days - they've lost whatever the cost of cleaning up and redecking a queue is (not much in the grand scheme of things) and regained a useful bit of infrastructure for a future halloween attraction, plus the knowledge that the ride system is potentially good to go for another couple of years (if, say, they have major problems with Nemesis when it reopens).

(Now I've said this, I presume the next post will contain a tweet confirming Sub Terra will be open on March 18th.)

I don’t think it’s a strategic reserve, I think they plan to open it (I’m not convinced it will open on the 18th however).

My bigger question is will this be a one year wonder or will they keep it running once Nemesis is back open.

 

[Josh555]

I don’t think it’s a strategic reserve, I think they plan to open it (I’m not convinced it will open on the 18th however).

My bigger question is will this be a one year wonder or will they keep it running once Nemesis is back open.

I would imagine it would continue to operate until they replace it (which might not be anytime soon given the unique layout of that building).

I could be wrong but I can’t see the merit in having a functioning attraction SBNO, especially when the park is having to draft in temporary funfair rides the add capacity to the park, but then that begs the question as to why it’s been sat in its current state for as long as it has (when all the other rides which closed in 2015 have either been replaced or reopened).

 

[WillPS]

I could be wrong but I can’t see the merit in having a functioning attraction SBNO, especially when the park is having to draft in temporary funfair rides the add capacity to the park, but then that begs the question as to why it’s been sat in its current state for as long as it has (when all the other rides which closed in 2015 have either been replaced or reopened).

Staff cost.

 

[Josh555]

Staff cost.

Staff cost may be one of the reasons, but if so, why has it not been removed or replaced?

Working on the assumption these recent photos are legit (and even if they aren’t, most people seem to agree the ride system is still in situ,) why have they not removed it, taken the parts to be used on other attractions etc?

 

[rob666]

Removal or replacement costs...
Mothballing is cheap.
Removal of parts means it isn't mothballed anymore, and it loses "value".

 

[WillPS]

Staff cost may be one of the reasons, but if so, why has it not been removed or replaced?

Working on the assumption these recent photos are legit (and even if they aren’t, most people seem to agree the ride system is still in situ,) why have they not removed it, taken the parts to be used on other attractions etc?

What would the advantage of removing it have been?

 

[Josh555]

What would the advantage of removing it have been?

Being able to replace it with something else? As I said before, out of all of the attractions which closed in 2015, this is the only one which hasn’t been removed or replaced.

 

[WillPS]

Being able to replace it with something else? As I said before, out of all of the attractions which closed in 2015, this is the only one which hasn’t been removed or replaced.

Like what though? The context of the closure was The Smiler cuts. The park built basically nothing new between The Smiler crash and Wickerman. If they wanted to build a flat ride they had half a dozen plots they'd created by other closures, including a better one in Forbidden Valley.

Site clearance costs money and would have meant they couldn't have done the walkthrough things they did.

Leaving it there doing nowt costs nothing.

 

[James]

If they had nothing planned for the site, may as well keep it SBNO rather than go through high costs of removal.

 

[Tim]

Based on how the parks run I'd be very surprised if Alton would willingly close and remove an attraction just so that some Dungeon somewhere has some spare parts.
When this normally happens (a train being stripped for parts) it's an in house maintenance decisions to reduce the capacity of an attraction in favour of having parts available, not close it entirely.
On top of that the Sub-Terra and Drop Dead ride systems aren't identical, and therefore only some of the parts would be useful.

Apologies I’ve just seen this photo shared on Facebook.

It looks completely separate from NST queue line, and looks like it will be for the general public to go up and view the area. The way they’ve put black tarp up to make it look presentable and a roof over the platform makes me think it is for the public.

It won’t affect NST because of its placement, it feels random but the addition of this platform feels like NST is coming back. I think they will want to continue the story line for this season and this is how they will do it.


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Looking at this picture again, there is a clear sign that they intend to use the building for something. The ramp could have so easily been worked into the queue. It splits in a way that looks like this was the original plan. Instead it goes over the rocks, that couldn't have been an easy work around. When also considering the Sub-Terra queue has been repaired it's clear they intend to use it for something. And I hardly think the ramp will be popular enough it needs an extension queue...

 

[Josh555]

Based on how the parks run I'd be very surprised if Alton would willingly close and remove an attraction just so that some Dungeon somewhere has some spare parts.
When this normally happens (a train being stripped for parts) it's an in house maintenance decisions to reduce the capacity of an attraction in favour of having parts available, not close it entirely.
On top of that the Sub-Terra and Drop Dead ride systems aren't identical, and therefore only some of the parts would be useful.

What I’m getting at is that the claim has been made several times that the ride was closed with no intention to reopen it. I struggle with the idea that once that decision had been made they then wouldn’t salvage what they could from the ride and get the building into a sensible state to leave it vacant.

It’s somewhat redundant anyway as you touch on, as clearly there is a plan in place for the building.

 

[rob666]

Was there any substance to the original claims?
Just because something is said several times, it does not make it true.
Mothballed ride...bit like battery storage...there handy in the background, but needs topping up.
Will be used, probably peak only, and might last another year when nemesis reopens.
Then back to being a slow pulsing cocoon...ish.