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Russia vs NATO
- Thread starter GaryH
- Start date
An issue I have with all of this...
Ukraine has one of the most corrupt economies in the world, third to Colombia and Brazil.
Repeatedly described as the most corrupt nation in Europe.
You want your car MOT'd, queue up and pay a bribe.
Health issues, need an appointment...pay a bribe.
Want to get into higher education...leave your little bundle of cash in the drawer.
The political and economic systems are "rotten to the core", you want something done in the corridors of power...bribes up to a million dollars are commonplace.
All this is well documented, from solid world sources that have been peer reviewed and accepted.
We only suddenly love the area because the big red bully next door is scratching the boundaries.
I feel sorry for the people, but the government is reaping what has been sown for years.
Ukraine has one of the most corrupt economies in the world, third to Colombia and Brazil.
Repeatedly described as the most corrupt nation in Europe.
You want your car MOT'd, queue up and pay a bribe.
Health issues, need an appointment...pay a bribe.
Want to get into higher education...leave your little bundle of cash in the drawer.
The political and economic systems are "rotten to the core", you want something done in the corridors of power...bribes up to a million dollars are commonplace.
All this is well documented, from solid world sources that have been peer reviewed and accepted.
We only suddenly love the area because the big red bully next door is scratching the boundaries.
I feel sorry for the people, but the government is reaping what has been sown for years.
Tim
TS Member
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- Air / Blue Fire
All of that might be true (I assume it is but I know very little of Ukraine's political situation). However it doesn't mean what Russia is doing isn't wrong.
If Russia's was really concerned for the people of Ukraine and wanted to end their corrupt political system they could have tried winning over the Ukrainian people to the point that they want to overthrow their government and reunite. This however is just a straight up invasion.
If Russia's was really concerned for the people of Ukraine and wanted to end their corrupt political system they could have tried winning over the Ukrainian people to the point that they want to overthrow their government and reunite. This however is just a straight up invasion.
Ukraine might be a bit corrupt but it is no where near as bad as Russia. Ukraine has elections in which they elect there president. Russia has elections in which the president decides who's the president. What Russia is doing is both illegal and morally wrong. Putin is causing hundreds (and probably eventually thousands) of civilian and military lives for a war which will achieve very little.
I don't know much about Ukraine. The UK has quite a bit of corruption (did someone say dodgy PPE contracts?), but it's certainly more in your face in some other countries than it is in the UK. But then you could say the same thing about Afghanistan. Their government was notoriously corrupt, but that doesn't excuse what the Taliban's did/are doing. Seeing huge numbers of innocent people dying for a man's ego is absolutely appalling.
There are shades of Afghanistan in the West's response to this. The sanctions have got a lot tougher since the invasion, but they're still a lot weaker than what they could be, because we don't want to hurt our own economies. They say they'll review sanctions in a couple of months and look at thing like gas and swift payments, but are they honestly expecting the Ukranian soldiers to hold out for that long?
There are shades of Afghanistan in the West's response to this. The sanctions have got a lot tougher since the invasion, but they're still a lot weaker than what they could be, because we don't want to hurt our own economies. They say they'll review sanctions in a couple of months and look at thing like gas and swift payments, but are they honestly expecting the Ukranian soldiers to hold out for that long?
I agree the sanctions are a bit weaker than I was hoping for however it does leave them more options in the future to respond to anything worse Putin does, or if he manages to seize the whole country.
They're doing quite well at the moment from what we can tell however Russia's overwhelming superiority will probably win out within a month. However the Ukrainians will likely then start a gorilla war, there's thousands of them with weapons and they can carry on the fight as a resistance force. I predict that Putin with have lots of trouble with a Ukrainian resistance, who will be both fairly well armed for a resistance movement and very determined.
I do wonder what Putin will do once he's got the whole country under his command, will he make it a state of the Russian Federation, make it an independent country that is controlled by a puppet regime or somewhere in the middle.
Putin is saying he does not want to occupy Ukraine, but he can’t expect to just pull out his army and expect withering to be ok. He will need to take out the government and install his own pro-Russia government before he can withdraw. It will then become heavily controlled like as we see in Russia and China, with protests being made illegal and people sent to detention camps.
Well he said he wasn't going to invade it so we can't trust a word that comes out of his mouth. I imagine he'll do similar to what he did in Crimea and hold onto it making out its an sovereign state. Putin will probably have the real power but like I say how long can the Russian's contend with a massive gorilla resistance.
My apologies @rob666 my spelling has never been my strong point, I do use a spell checker however I sometimes forget to check everything. I'm getting better at spelling but please forgive my dreadful spelling and gramma, I think it's at least understandable.
No need to apologise, it cheered me up on an awful news day.
Homophones and homonyms are too/to/two tricky!
Now threatening Sweden and Finland. This isn’t just about Ukraine
https://eurasiantimes.com/russia-se...tary-implications-if-they-go-the-ukraine-way/
https://eurasiantimes.com/russia-se...tary-implications-if-they-go-the-ukraine-way/
delta79
TS Member
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- Nemesis, Air
I was getting planet of the ape VIBES. A spelling mixup that brightened up my day.
Don't apologies, it was funny.
Sent from my SM-A217F using Tapatalk
Plastic Person
TS Member
Eurasian Times is a privately funded Canadian-Indian news source with a serious Russian leaning, reflecting the Indian government and ruling class. You only have to look at how they're reporting the foundations of the invasion there as a call-for-help from breakaway regions to observe this. They're reporting that 'threat' in Moscow's favour. It's not a press conference or statement hat has been reported by Reuters or other, more credible sources.
More than ever before, people need to be cautious as to the legitimacy of what they are reading.
Plastic Person
TS Member
Nonetheless, it's probably best to avoid getting your updates via 'Sputnik News Agency', at least for the time being.
Matt N
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I must admit I got myself properly scared about this yesterday, particularly after reading that conscription might return in the UK if the crisis escalates. Being in the prime demographic for getting called up in the event of conscription (male, young), I must say that really spooked me... I'm not a fighter at heart, I'm not even vaguely prepared to go to war with Russia, and I know that I'd be absolutely useless on a battlefield.
My parents, thankfully, seem to think that the chances of conscription returning are slim to none, even if WW3 does occur (they also think the chances of any major impact on Britain beyond a financial one and perhaps the odd cyber attack are extremely low, let alone a full blown WW3; my dad told me of how the defence secretary has ruled out a "boots on the ground" war with Russia), and they said that even if conscription did come back (which they insisted it wouldn't; apparently national service in Britain ceased to be a thing not long after WW2), I would likely be exempt on the basis that I'm autistic (which they think would count as an underlying health condition). My mum also said to me "with how useless you are at fighting, what value would you even bring to the British army? The Russians could probably tickle you to death without even touching a gun!".
I must ask, though; how likely do you think it is that conscription will return if this crisis escalates? Is it extremely likely, or am I worrying over nothing?
I am starting to grow slightly more reassured that it won't escalate further, though; the invasion effort is apparently going nowhere near as well as Russia had hoped, and Ukraine is mounting a strong defence. They've allegedly managed to fend off quite a few Russian attacks on Kyiv thus far.
My parents, thankfully, seem to think that the chances of conscription returning are slim to none, even if WW3 does occur (they also think the chances of any major impact on Britain beyond a financial one and perhaps the odd cyber attack are extremely low, let alone a full blown WW3; my dad told me of how the defence secretary has ruled out a "boots on the ground" war with Russia), and they said that even if conscription did come back (which they insisted it wouldn't; apparently national service in Britain ceased to be a thing not long after WW2), I would likely be exempt on the basis that I'm autistic (which they think would count as an underlying health condition). My mum also said to me "with how useless you are at fighting, what value would you even bring to the British army? The Russians could probably tickle you to death without even touching a gun!".
I must ask, though; how likely do you think it is that conscription will return if this crisis escalates? Is it extremely likely, or am I worrying over nothing?
I am starting to grow slightly more reassured that it won't escalate further, though; the invasion effort is apparently going nowhere near as well as Russia had hoped, and Ukraine is mounting a strong defence. They've allegedly managed to fend off quite a few Russian attacks on Kyiv thus far.
Unless things escalate real bad the chances of being called up are zero. I remember the same stuff being banded about at the time of the first gulf war when Iraq invaded Kuwait. Remember there are the reserves to call up first anyway. Then after that it will be volunteers. Only in the extreme scenario is there a likelihood of conscription.
It’s just the usual scaremongering from a few people which Is much easier spread now thanks to social media
It’s just the usual scaremongering from a few people which Is much easier spread now thanks to social media
If this turned into WW3 (very unlikely) which involved NATO conscription wouldn't start instantly although there would be a big recruitment drive for the forces. Conscription would only start if all else failed. Your parents are right, you'd almost certainly be exempt, as would I. Although there would likely to other ways to play our part, such as working in intelligence or working in administration.
Anyway this is all very unlikely, Russia knows it cannot invade a NATO country because it would loose even with half of NATO's power. In my opinion Taiwan is far more likely to escalate due to other claims China is making of the south china sea (basically china is making fake islands in other countries water and then claiming that water). The situation is Asia is far more likely to go into a bigger war, one of which we would only likely be involved with boots on the ground if somewhere like Australia were being attacked.
Basically, Matt I really wouldn't worry you wouldn't be conscripted and in fact even if you applied to the army/navy/air-force you'd be rejected (as would I) but you'd likely still be able to be of service somehow if you wished.