Scottish Independence yes or no?

[Martin]

God I hope they vote yes. A chance for them to break free from the Tories. A chance they'll never get again. I'm counting on them voting yes. But they'll probably vote no, people are scared of the unknown.

Too many people wrongly think independence = Salmond.

 

[DiogoJ42]

If this ever happened, would we have to alter the union flag to remove the diagonal white cross? No, wait, the whole blue background would have to go as well, wouldn't it?
See? No one is thinking about the important issues here. Blackpool will have to repaint all it's rides with St George's crosses!

 

[Rose Of Dawn]

If this ever happened, would we have to alter the union flag to remove the diagonal white cross? No, wait, the whole blue background would have to go as well, wouldn't it?
See? No one is thinking about the important issues here. Blackpool will have to repaint all it's rides with St George's crosses!

The flag is the main reason I want Scotland to stay in. I quite like the Union Flag, and the Scottish flag is all that is stopping this:

From looking like this:

I mean, they could always modify it to include the Welsh flag as well (I don't see why not, as the Welsh flag is the best in the world anyway), but still...

 

[Tom]

To be honest, we've got a public school cabinet and a Canadian governor of the Bank of England. I can see why Salmon wants out, but apart from his obvious fear and economic incompetence, not why he'd want to keep the pound.

 

[Adam]

Scotland leaving would mean the Tories would then have a massive majority in England, so for that reason I'm personally hoping that Scotland doesn't become independent as that would almost guarantee a Tory win in every general election. Unless Northern England became independent from them aswell, but that's not likely.

 

[Scott]

I hope they stay in. I'm half Scottish myself and as far as I can tell from my Scottish family, they don't want out.

It's going to be a case of who has the best propaganda come September. Which movement will be more persuasive, 'Better Together' or 'Yes'?

 

[Sam]

and a Canadian governor of the Bank of England. I can see why Salmon wants out

What does that have to do with anything? Personally I'd rather see the best man for the job running the Bank of England, rather than deliberately choose worse people but who happen to be English. :/

Also, if Scotland leave we can keep the flag exactly how it is. We have no obligation to take the blue out. We can have it however we like, as a sovereign nation.

 

[Tom]

and a Canadian governor of the Bank of England. I can see why Salmon wants out

What does that have to do with anything? Personally I'd rather see the best man for the job running the Bank of England, rather than deliberately choose worse people but who happen to be English. :/

Also, if Scotland leave we can keep the flag exactly how it is. We have no obligation to take the blue out. We can have it however we like, as a sovereign nation.

The government have selected the person they find most easy to pressurise and force into decisions that they can get away with.

The Scottish parts of the Union Flag (IE the blue bits) obviously represent Scotland, so there is no reason why it should be incorporated into the new UK's flag.

The majority of the people in Scotland do not want this shambolic offering of independence anyway. It will be voted against by a considerable majority. Fortunately fascism and exaggerated views of self-importance are now largely extinct in the world, with the exception of America.

 

[Alastair]

Doesn't quite have that same majesty...

 

[DiogoJ42]

Well any flag that had a freakin' dragon on it is win, but "red white and green" just doesn't have the same ring to it as "red white and blue".
And all the Commonwealth countries that have our flag in the corner would have to change as well.

 

[Martin]

Why would the flag have to change at all? They won't have to get rid of the blue, it'll just not have any meaning.

Or would they actually have to by law or something?

 

[Meat Pie]

Stop being so ridiculous. A flag doesn't have to change because of a separation and it undoubtedly wouldn't.

There is absolutely no requirement to change the flag.

Not that the changing of an empty meaningless graphic should be a consideration in the future of Scotland anyway.

 

[DiogoJ42]

Well historically the flag was created when Scotland joined with England to create Great Britain. So logically it should change if Scotland leave.

 

[Jem8472]

I am surprised that Aly has not got in on this yet.
But I can't see the point in keeping the flag the same if Scotland leaves. The flag would then be meaningless.

 

[Martin]

Flags are meaningless anyway. They're just bits of coloured cloth that mark one patch of dirt as being separate from another.

 

[DiogoJ42]

If flags are meaningless, why do countries make a point of changing theirs? Why didn't Russia keep the hammer and siccle when communism fell? Why did South Africa change their flag when Apartheid fell? Etc etc.

 

[Tom]

Stop being so ridiculous. A flag doesn't have to change because of a separation and it undoubtedly wouldn't.

There is absolutely no requirement to change the flag.

Not that the changing of an empty meaningless graphic should be a consideration in the future of Scotland anyway.

The argument is that it would not be representative. If a state became independent from the US, is it likely that they would keep 50 stars?

Our current flag has been modified over the years/centuries to reflect the changing configuration of the country, so it is not completely unreasonable to talk about the possibility of it continuing to do so.

 

[Martin]

If flags are meaningless, why do countries make a point of changing theirs? Why didn't Russia keep the hammer and siccle when communism fell? Why did South Africa change their flag when Apartheid fell? Etc etc.

Because sometimes they symbolise things the country no longer wants to be associated with. Like Russia not wanting to have the symbol of communism when they gave up wanting to establish communism and South Africa wanting a new flag to symbolise a new start for the country.

But it's just a blue background, it doesn't have to have any meaning to it.

Stop being so ridiculous. A flag doesn't have to change because of a separation and it undoubtedly wouldn't.

There is absolutely no requirement to change the flag.

Not that the changing of an empty meaningless graphic should be a consideration in the future of Scotland anyway.

The argument is that it would not be representative. If a state became independent from the US, is it likely that they would keep 50 stars?

Our current flag has been modified over the years/centuries to reflect the changing configuration of the country, so it is not completely unreasonable to talk about the possibility of it continuing to do so.

Difference is, the stars are a symbol. When you see 50 stars on a flag, you think USA, but a blue background isn't a symbol.

 

[Sam]

The majority of the people in Scotland do not want this shambolic offering of independence anyway. It will be voted against by a considerable majority. Fortunately fascism and exaggerated views of self-importance are now largely extinct in the world, with the exception of America.

Wow, Godwin's law on page 2!

As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.

Yes, I'm sure the Scottish people will vote against this as 'fascism' is 'largely extinct in the world'. Alex Salmond, Mussolini and Hitler, who could tell the difference. :

 

[Kelpie]

Some thoughts and points:

As a 'not fully independent' nation, as the SNP is proposing, would Scotland be able to remain in the EU with us? Or would they have to apply as their own country? Aside from the economic requirements, one of the rules of membership is the adoption of the Euro. I can't see that being attractive.

Forget the flag, a more pressing issue would be the name - could we still be able to title ourselves as 'The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland'? Great Britain is the consituent parts of England, Wales and Scotland, the name that came about because of the Union of England and Scotland.

But there is no reason our flag would need to change just because Scotland left.
Firstly, it features in so many other flags around the world, those of the Commonwealth nations and British soverign territories that to continue that bond and recognition of those states it should remain the same.

Secondly it is also iconic and recognisable - we've had this version of it since 1801! But for the sake of argument, the white of the St Andrews cross could switch to representing the white of the St Patricks flag, like the red St Georges one has the white outline. The blue could be both a historical nod to our island components and represent the sea. And let's be honest, whatever alternative design might be come up with, chances are the general public will agree they prefer the current one better.

Thirdly:

Hawaii's state flag - notice that British Flag in the corner there? THEY'VE never changed theirs!

If the flag were to change, we could be technical about it and represent Wales with use of the Flag of St David, matching the use of the flags of patron saints of the other members on the national flag. (Scotland also has the Soverign's flag of the red lion on gold). Which could make our flag this instead, if we so wished:
http://prntscr.com/2nr630
(sorry it's a hyperlink, photobucket is down...)

As a side note, the Welsh flag of the dragon was only made the official national flag of Wales in 1959.