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Scottish Independence yes or no?

I know the primary subject matter of this forum encourages juvenile discussion by its nature, but if it isn't possible to engage a semi-serious thread without sarcasm, it's unfortunate as it stifles what could be interesting debates.

Misrepresentation of what people say/twisting people's words is also unfortunate.
 
Oooh, I like the black background. :)

And Jem, "false flag" just means "fake attack by some kind of government conspiracy" to me. Maybe I've been reading too much ATS...
 
Tom said:
The government have selected the person they find most easy to pressurise and force into decisions that they can get away with.
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Although a civil service post, the governer of the BOE is employed from within the bank not the government.

Considering he pretty much said the Scots could have a monitory union after independence today, against the Westminster message I would maybe reassess your statement.

He was employed as he kept Canada in growth and is very well respected.
 
Tom said:
I know the primary subject matter of this forum encourages juvenile discussion by its nature, but if it isn't possible to engage a semi-serious thread without sarcasm, it's unfortunate as it stifles what could be interesting debates.

Misrepresentation of what people say/twisting people's words is also unfortunate.
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You actually compared Salmond's desire for independence to fascism, I think it's quite clear who the juvenile is here. :p
 
I am in different to be honest, while the outcome could have a significant impact on people throughout the UK, I don't think worrying about the flag, or the outcome of the next UK Election is of much importance to most Scottish people, although I am happy to be proved wrong.

The people of Scotland need to decide what they think is best for them, and I think when you try and look at it, it is very difficult to make a decision on whether an independent Scotland would be more prosperous. You can not deny that they will have more power to make decisions that affect them, but how much of that power will be lost when they rejoin the EU?

I think all the uncertainty will eventually lead to a successfully No vote, but it is going to be interesting to see what happens, and whether the Yes campaign can help reduce the uncertainty about what will happen in the future?

Ian
 
DiogoJ42 said:
Oooh, I like the black background. :)

And Jem, "false flag" just means "fake attack by some kind of government conspiracy" to me. Maybe I've been reading too much ATS...
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Its that you are not allowed to fly a different flag ( like the one of your enemies) so you can a sneak attack, you have to be flying your flag to attack.
So if Scotland leaves then our current flag would not be correct.
 
Jem8472 said:
The flag might need to be changed as you cannot fight under a false flag under the rules of war.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag
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How would it be a 'false flag' if the United Kingdom of Whatevers Left of Britain and Ireland [insert new name] chooses to retain it as it's own? It would just be the official flag of the new version of our country.

We're assuming as an independent nation Scotland would adopt their present flag of St Andrew as their official 'new country' one also. Now it could be constrewed as a 'false flag' if anyone in an independent Scotland fought flying the present British one. And vice versa if a Brit flew a Scottish one. But not under their own.
 
I didn't say he was, but a lot of the people that will vote for his campaign are driven by fascist values against the English. The same situation exists with those that consider the UK to be superior to the the rest of the EU and support withdrawal.

Fascism is combative (not necessarily physical violence) attitudes towards other groups that are seen as hampering or damaging. Petrol bombs are swastikas are not mandatory as it has evolved considerably in recent years.

An advance of a for seen misrepresentation yet again: I am not saying Salmon, everyone in the SNP or everyone in Scotland that wants faux-independence is a fascist by my definition or any other.
 
Surely the Scottish wanting their own government and to not be controlled by Tory elites in London is the opposite of fascism?

Voting yes out of a dislike of the English isn't fascism.
 
I'm sorry but you have to be a moron if you think the word 'fascism' is relevant to the vote over Scottish independence. ::)

Can we move on from this tedious flag debate as well? It's 2014, both countries can use whatever flag they like, we could keep the blue, take out the blue, put a picture of Stephen Fry on it if we like.
 
If you've never heard of Scottish sectarianism and how it manifests itself, then I don't think I should be engaging you any more.
 
The Scottish hate the English. The Welsh hate the English. The Irish hate the English. Half of Europe hates the English.

It's not Scotland that's the problem. It's England.
 
Regarding the worries over the flag. Even if Scotland goes independent the Queen will still be head of state so the union flag would stay the same.

Although it would be nice to have Wales marked on the flag!
 
Ignoring the flag faff Kelpie raises valid points that I don't think the SNP have ever truly answered.

If Scotland had to apply for EU member status what rules would they be given? Would the Euro be forced upon them? Would they get some kind of fastrack entry? Would they have to wait like other new member states?

Nobody really seems to know.
 
Well no one in the EU has had the Euro forced upon them, but the other questions are interesting.

As I've said before though, check the odds on this bogus independence offering being voted for, the bookies are rarely wrong.
 
Tom said:
Well no one in the EU has had the Euro forced upon them, but the other questions are interesting.

As I've said before though, check the odds on this bogus independence offering being voted for, the bookies are rarely wrong.
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Actually yes, they have - committing to adoption of the Euro is a requirement for all member states apart from the UK and Denmark. Now not all states have met the economic conditions yet to do so, but the proviso of joining the EU is that they will.
http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/euro/adoption/who_can_join/

So if Scotland wished to join the EU as an independent nation, while at point of formation they could keep the Pound Sterling, under present legislature they would have to commit to adopting the Euro at some point.
 
Tom said:
If you've never heard of Scottish sectarianism and how it manifests itself, then I don't think I should be engaging you any more.
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You're coming across as a mad conspiracy theorist, and an unpleasantly xenophobic one at that. Whipping up non-existent 'hatred' between different nations for no reason other than to justify your obvious dislike of the Scottish. Where is this hatred you speak of? The only part of the UK where there is genuine hatred about borders to any significant degree is Northern Ireland.
 
Where is this hatred you speak of?
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Well I don't know about Scotland, but I hear some parts of Merseyside hate the English ;)

Seriously though, there is a stereotype of the English-hating Scot. I suspect that for a small group of ultra-nationalists that's probably true, but you could say the same of pretty much any country or region towards their neighbours.
 
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