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Scottish Independence yes or no?

It's the same with Wales.

When playing sport, the Welsh speak openly and proudly of their hatred for the English. But once the game is over, the hate disappears with ten minutes.

The sole exception to this are small towns and villages dotted around the country, mainly in the north-east or in the valleys. But they generally hate anyone from over the Big Hill - especially other Welsh people (whom they wouldn't consider 'proper welsh' as they don't have the accent or can't speak the language - or in some cases, they hate those who can speak welsh.)
 
Kelpie said:
Tom said:
Well no one in the EU has had the Euro forced upon them, but the other questions are interesting.

As I've said before though, check the odds on this bogus independence offering being voted for, the bookies are rarely wrong.
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Actually yes, they have - committing to adoption of the Euro is a requirement for all member states apart from the UK and Denmark. Now not all states have met the economic conditions yet to do so, but the proviso of joining the EU is that they will.
http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/euro/adoption/who_can_join/

So if Scotland wished to join the EU as an independent nation, while at point of formation they could keep the Pound Sterling, under present legislature they would have to commit to adopting the Euro at some point.
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Sweden also doesn't use it. While countries can make a 'commitment', it is meaningless as no one would join until it is in their economic interests to do so. It's basically just an open-ended principle that you're in favour of joining. There is no 'you will join or be kicked out eventually' law.
 
Tom said:
Sweden also doesn't use it. While countries can make a 'commitment', it is meaningless as no one would join until it is in their economic interests to do so. It's basically just an open-ended principle that you're in favour of joining. There is no 'you will join or be kicked out eventually' law.
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They presently don't, but they have committed to joining it eventually, as per the terms of membership. No there isn't a time limit, and it can be put off (presently 18 of 28 EU members are in the Eurozone - as two are exempt, eight are in theory working towards adopting it), but the point is that if Scotland joined the EU as an independent nation they would have to agree to the eventual adoption of the Euro in principle (even if not in practice) but that principle may be very offputting to voters.

Of course Scotland is perfectly welcome not to join the EU. Further questions then arise about migration, foreign employment etc etc if they are not a member of the EU and not a member of the Schengen area (Switzerland as a non-EU member is, the UK isn't). Would similar rules as have applied to Romania and Bulgaria until this year apply to Scotland for example?

The SNP have to make it clear which option they would be looking at if they gained independence because there are a lot of potential ramifications. They can't pick and choose terms of EU membership or say 'the UK was allowed this and we were in the UK so we should be allowed the same'. As a new, independent country they would be subject to the same as any other country looking to join the EU. Look at places like the former Yugoslavia - Slovenia and Croatia are members (2004 & 2013 respectively), Serbia, Montenegro and Macedonia are looking to be members (Serbia and Montenegro only themselves split into two independent nations in 2006), Bosnia & Hertzegovina hasn't applied. They havent all been given membership just because one of them met the terms and they all used to be the same country. (Yes I know Yugoslavia wasn't in the EEC at the time, whereas the UK is in the EU but that shouldn't make a difference).
 
Listen, as a Proud Scot myself and who shares a Scottish/British identity, all I can say is this is leaving would be a BIG mistake.

The main problem is many things are still unanswered such as oil tax rises, border controls, the EU and the current problem with the currency. Many years ago, Salmond and the SNP said the Euro was the way forward and we'd copy Ireland...well the Euro crisis happened and those plans all went the window and out of nowhere, he then said we'd have a currency union with the rest of the UK, pretty much making things up as they go along and trying to look cool and collective.

The main problem they have left it too late, as soon as they went into power back in 2007 or 08, they could've done it then, but no, they've left it 8 YEARS late and in that time, has left a Scottish nation divided. Then again with it being the 700th anniversary of Bannockburn and the 80th of the SNP, you can understand why they'd want a big celebration. Also including the Commenwealth games, I'm amazed they didn't get the chance to host the 2014 World Cup in Scotland then they'd have the whole set, though saying that if England did win the world cup (not saying if they did but could you imagine :p) at Hampden Park...less said the better!

What I would do is perhaps after the referendum if it's a no vote, let the english have a referendum for their own parliament and then have four countries sharing the rule of the UK, and having Westminster become the spot where the leaders come together to meet and discuss nationwide matters I.E Military, foreign relations that sort of stuff. There you'd get the best of both worlds and would help build better relationships with each other. Just my thought but hey.

Though as my late Granddad put it..."If we couldn't get along with our closet neighbours, what chance do we have with other nations?"

And here's a little something I did of my own version of the Union Jack below. For our Welsh friends out there and those in Northern Ireland :)

updated_union_jack_by_qtxadsy-d4h1a84.jpg
 
I think the most notable thing about this campaign has been the rediscovered national pride of Scottish people and the way this has propelled debate and dreams of a new political utopia. I admire their optimism but some seem to take pleasure in ignoring the facts along with Alex Salmond who seems to dismiss every argument as ‘scaremongering’.

We have a shared and entangled identity with Scotland. The first king of Britain was a Scotsman and the Union Jack was created by a Scotsman, the NHS was conceived by a Scot as was the Labour party and even the Bank of England was founded by a Scot. There have been about eight Scottish prime ministers of the UK. Together we have been able to pool and share resources such as investments in extraction of North Sea Oil. The UK system also supports Scottish employment industries such as shipbuilding on the Clyde. These are just a couple of examples of working together.

In my opinion, the whole of the UK needs to have better system of governance not just Scotland and we must work together to modernise and devolve powers to allow communities to prosper.
 
Why do we need this union for all this though? Isn't the point of the EU that countries can all work together? Scotland doesn't have to be a half country ruled over by another, neither does Wales or Northern Ireland. If the union doesn't ever get broken up completely, all the countries should have their own parliament. Almost no one in Scotland voted for the Conservatives, it's not democratic they should have to live under a conservative government.

I hope they vote yes and another remnant of the empire dies. I envy Scotland, they've a chance to banish the Tories. All the people who have fought and died for independence, none of their countries would go back, Scotland has the chance to free itself democratically, they'd be mad to turn it down.

Although if they do vote yes, things are going to get very nasty. They're not going to let all that oil go without a fight. There will be a reaction.
 
Personally, I'm not sure where I stand on the prospect of Scottish independence. However, whichever way you look at it, the debate has divided the country, and whatever the outcome of tomorrow's vote is, these divisions will remain for a long time. I'm not sure if this has been touched on yet in this topic, but the vote could have wider implications, most notably for the independence movements in two of Spain's autonomous communities - Catalonia and the Basque Country.
 
If Scotland do manage to gain independence, they will still have at least 40% of Scots to satisfy who didn't want independence. How are they going to fix that, I hear you all cry!
 
The independence movements in Catalonia and the Basque country are much larger than in Scotland, Yes doesn't have it's own terrorist organisation, so tomorrow's result could impact the chances of the movements in Spain.

The up to 49% who don't want Scotland to be independent can all move down to England and all us here who want out of the Tories can take their place. As a fan of local democracy I'd rather Scotland be ruled by its own corrupt bourgeoisie elite than England's, it's not a great improvement, but it is an improvement.
 
We're #BetterTogether. What would Scotland gain they don't have but can't ask for under devolution?
 
I'm not Scottish, but I am a Socialist, so I genuinely hope they vote yes tomorrow and rid themselves of the self serving tories in Westminster. Would be awful for them to pass up the chance of getting rid of them just because of some events that happened over 300 years ago.
 
If Scotland get their independence, I wonder how long it will be till Wales go to the polls for independence
 
delta79 said:
If Scotland get their independence, I wonder how long it will be till Wales go to the polls for independence
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It's not likely for Wales to go independent, IMO. The independence movement there is nowhere near as strong as it is in Scotland, and they'd face more problems if they split from England.
 
And so its over, it's a NO vote! :D

As the Scot on here, let me tell you my thoughts, it really was the right choice and you won't believe the amount of crap I'd get from the Yes supporters calling me a traitor and all that, thank god I won't hear no more from them. Have to agree with Dan here, I'm not a fan of the Tories nor Cameron, but that was a good speech I'll admit.

So then my fellow English and Welsh folk on here, don't mind us Scots staying!;)
 
Now it's a no vote, it seems as though Scotland have completely wasted their time! :p

GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!
 
Bottleless. Scotland has decided to remain a colony, controlled by toffs they don't vote for in a country that has killing the Scottish in its national anthem. Absolutely disgusting seeing the Labour party hand in hand with the Tories. Fear has won. Lies have won. David bloody Cameron has won.
 
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One more positive thing from the vote.

Piers Morgan is leaving the UK as a result of Scotland voting 'No'. :D
 
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