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SeaWorld Orlando: General Discussion

For me it’s nothing to do with the way they may be trained, I don’t doubt they are looked after by people that care - it’s the basic fact that their existence in the park is purely to perform for the entertainment of humans.

Seaworld’s work in animal conservation and rescue is fantastic - it’s just a shame that these Orcas need to perform in these shows in order to raise funds for that work to happen. I feel that isn’t necessary and those two separate issues don’t need to be linked.

Scrap the Orca shows - make money from investing in rides, attractions, live (human) entertainment instead and use that to fund all the good stuff they do. I would be happy to return if this happened, until then it’s just not for me.
 
I appreciate where you're coming from @AT86, and at the end of the day it is a good thing that you are concerned about animal welfare. Let me try to adress your concerns.

The shows are entertaining, no doubt about it, but their purpose is also excercise. Each whale has an excercise schedule calculated based on age, gender, pregnancy status etc. Shows are a great way for the whales to participate in high energy behaviours such as breaches (which you also see in the wild) and get their heart rate up. They also seem to find the shows very reinforcing, and often the biggest trouble is keeping a whale out of a show and letting others have a go. Takara at SeaWorld San Antonio gets particularly frustrated when she cannot participate in a show!

Having the whales at SeaWorld also has a whole range of other benefits. It not only brings Orcas into the public conscience, but having close access to the whales allows researchers to gain information that would be impossible to gain in the wild. One example is Dr Ann Bowles, who studies acoustic patterns and social structure in the Killer Whale pod at SeaWorld San Diego. This helps her better understand social patterns and abnormalities in wild Orcas, which directly benefits these populations.

The shows at SeaWorld are not going anywhere, but they are changing. The current theatrical productions are being gradually replaced by new presentations that whilst still being entertaining, are also highly educational and have stronger conservation messaging. Perhaps this will be more to your taste :)

@DiogoJ42, I admit there are bad zoos. Places of torture and punishment for animals, (that's what the accreditation process is for) but to tarnish all zoos and aquariums with the same brush is even more ridiculous than Merlin claiming their staggered openings are due to power issues. I expect more sensible suggestions from a fellow learned merlin bashing member :p
 
DiogoJ42 said:
They wouldn't need "exercise" if they weren't kept in glorified swimming pools... ;)
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All whales need excercise, even wild whales.

I'm not pretending that Shamu Stadium is the ocean. It clearly isn't, but it's the best environment for Orcas born under human care, just like the wild is the best environment for whales born in the wild.
 
Thought it might be.

Just out of interest, what is it that makes you hate us so much? Blackfish?

I mean, it can't be a lack of animal welfare as (unlike most zoos & aquariums) the parks have got every welfare accreditation going, so I'm just curious.
 
There's no place for keeping such huge animals in captivity, they need to roam. As others have mentioned SeaWorld can still find conservation while refocusing on the rides.
 
speedy said:
There's no place for keeping such huge animals in captivity, they need to roam. As others have mentioned SeaWorld can still find conservation while refocusing on the rides.
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Wild Orcas put themselves in danger by swimming miles every day in order to find food, not for the thrill of it.
When we see a higher abundance of food, the distance that wild Orcas swim reduces dramatically and they often remain in the same general area.

At SeaWorld, the whales have all their food provided, there is no reason to swim miles as the scenario replicates the wild scenario of food abundance.

At the same time, of course man made habitats cannot replicate the ocean. But the whales at SeaWorld display reproductive behaviour and most marine biologists would agree that reproduction only occurs in animals that are mentally and physically stimulated.

The American Humane Association's Humane Certification (which SeaWorld has) takes this into account, and as an expert independent animal welfare organisation they agree that having whales at SeaWorld has no negative effects, mentally or physically.

Life at SeaWorld is different, but that doesn't mean that it has to be worse.
 
The whole thing is going to keep rollin on for years, the parks can’t free the whales they have but from a PR perspective keeping large mammals in captivity is never going to be a popular move.

I personally won’t go to the shows, I don’t really take pleasure from watching a forced performance of such beautiful creatures even if it is making the best of a bad situation by providing exercise and stimulation. That said I really don’t see what SeaWorld can do as they are stuck with the captive orcas for the lifespan of the remaining animals. PETA is an unpleasant organisation and I don’t condone its actions but I think Sea could go a long way by dramatically changing the atmosphere of the whale shows. I know they have started but I would look to change things a bit quicker.

Do think Thomas Cook are using this as a Pure PR exercise though.
 
@Dave I agree with your analysis except for the "forced" part.

The whales aren't forced to perform, they know they will recieve all of their food every day regardless of participation in shows :)

The way I look at it is to see what kind of organisations are on each side of the argument:

Supporting/accrediting SeaWorld:

-American Humane Association
-Association of Zoos & Aquariums
-IMATA
-AMMPA
-Federal regulators
-Texas Marine Mammal network
-World Wildlife Fund (WWF)
-Dr Guy Harvey Ocean Foundation
-OCEARCH Conservation Foundation
-Hubbs/SW Research Institute


Attacking SeaWorld:

-PETA & associates
-People who have watched Blackfish
 
MakoMania said:
Life at SeaWorld is different, but that doesn't mean that it has to be worse.
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This is ridiculous straw-man logic when you're dealing with intelligent animals captured and forced to breed and expected to perform in an environment outside of it's own!

I am also confident that their are other bodies and proffesionals against Seaworld's practices, aside from PETA loons and 'people who watched Blackfish'. You don't need to be an expert in marine biology or an activist to see an animal that large and intelligent in a relatively small pool in Central Florida and think, "Hang on a second, maybe this isn't something I should be supporting."

Agreed though, that the company have a problem on their hands, in that they are now burdened with the whales for the rest of their lifespan. I don't know what the answer is, but I think killing the performative element would be a start.

As has been said in this thread before, I don't think Seaworld are evil, I think their animal rescue programme is entirely credible and important, but they are a corporation, and their central product is out-of-time to the public. It's just progress.
 
MakoMania said:
Wild Orcas put themselves in danger by swimming miles every day in order to find food, not for the thrill of it.
When we see a higher abundance of food, the distance that wild Orcas swim reduces dramatically and they often remain in the same general area.

At SeaWorld, the whales have all their food provided, there is no reason to swim miles as the scenario replicates the wild scenario of food abundance.

At the same time, of course man made habitats cannot replicate the ocean. But the whales at SeaWorld display reproductive behaviour and most marine biologists would agree that reproduction only occurs in animals that are mentally and physically stimulated.

The American Humane Association's Humane Certification (which SeaWorld has) takes this into account, and as an expert independent animal welfare organisation they agree that having whales at SeaWorld has no negative effects, mentally or physically.

Life at SeaWorld is different, but that doesn't mean that it has to be worse.
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I am sure they are well cared for and happy. However they have been trained to perform, which is pretty much "forcing" them and I think that's unnatural. Personally I feel we should keep animals in their natural habitat
 
Plastic Person said:
This is ridiculous straw-man logic when you're dealing with intelligent animals captured and forced to breed and expected to perform in an environment outside of it's own!
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No, this^ is ridiculous.

The only correct thing is that these are incredibly intelligent animals.

1)Blackfish talks about capturing Orcas, but in reality SeaWorld has not captured whales or dolphins in decades. Everyone at SeaWorld totally opposes wild capture, however it is still a practice that we get accused of for no reason whatsoever.

2)You say that SeaWorld is not an Orca's own environment. But the vast majority of Orcas at SeaWorld were born there. This is the environment that they know and are familiar with. They do not know how to hunt and their immune systems have insufficient appropriate antibodies to cope with foreign ocean bacteria. There is no better environment for them, just like there is no better environment than the ocean for wild whales.

3)People who talk about forced performing have no understanding of modern animal training. Performances are not a chore for the whales. They seem to really enjoy the interaction with their trainers and the high energy behaviours. If you are in the stadium before or after a show, you will often see the whales go (without instruction) and interact with the crowd as well. They are not forced to perform (punishment or food deprivation based training would not be accredited). They recieve all their food every single day regardless of show participation. If a whale does not want to participate, that is absolutely fine and there is no consequence.

Please, if you are going to attack SeaWorld, use facts and don't sound like the Daily Mirror talking about people getting stuck upside down on Galactica.

@speedy I agree with you that animals that are in the wild should be left in the wild :)
 
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Martin said:
It's entirely possible to praise their conservation efforts in the wild, and not praise keeping orcas in goldfish bowls, they're two separate things and one is not an excuse or licence for the other
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What is your alternative? Releasing them?
 
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