Secret Weapon 7 Discussion

[RyanY]

Isn't the track set to be on park today? Even if it is I doubt we'll see it for a few more days because of the concrete washing away.

As regards to the name, I an't see Smile being it. Because it doesn't sound sinister enough unless you know the theme and what the people who 'run' the ride try to do.

 

[James]

This topic is starting to turn into a bit of a spamfest. I've removed a few posts that add nothing to the topic. If you would like to joke about SW7 then please feel free to create a topic in the Courtyard Tavern.

Otherwise please ensure you add something to the discussion to engage with discussion and debate.

If anyone has an issue with posts being removed then please feel free to contact myself or another member of the team. Thanks.

 

[JB1985]

Isn't the track set to be on park today? Even if it is I doubt we'll see it for a few more days because of the concrete washing away.

As regards to the name, I an't see Smile being it. Because it doesn't sound sinister enough unless you know the theme and what the people who 'run' the ride try to do.

I seem to recall someone mentioned today as track day but i suspect they may delay until next week, who knows!

And for the last time (as has been proved in numerous posts) NO CONCRETE HAS WASHED AWAY

 

[rightbackgranty]

For those that don't have access to The Sentinel, this is in todays paper.

Building work is continuing on the site of the new ride ahead of its opening to the public on March 16.

Now designers have revealed elements of the new rollercoaster, which officials hope will become as iconic as the existing Air, Oblivion and Rita rides.

The new ride will have:

A top speed of 85 kilometres-per-hour – 10kph faster than Air;

A highest drop of 30 metres;

A track length of 1,170 metres –three times the length of Oblivion;

A ride time of 165 seconds – three times longer than Rita;

A capacity of 64 passengers on each ride.

Officials at the theme park say that next year's rollercoaster is on a different level.

An Alton Towers spokesman said: "It is felt Alton Towers is ready for a big investment and ready for a really big iconic ride.

"It has been 14 years since our last really iconic ride.

"Over the past few years we have been trying to strike the balance between being a family attraction and a site for thrill-seekers. We have now reached that balance."

The new ride – codenamed Secret Weapon Seven – will open on the site of the old Black Hole attraction.

Project designer Ben Dowson, who works for Merlin Magic Makers, said: "This ride is the largest investment ever put in to Alton Towers.

"Alton Towers has a good reputation as being a market leader and we are trying to push the limits with our rides.

"It is the biggest rollercoaster we have ever done at Alton Towers and it is not for the faint-hearted."

But theme park officials are still refusing to reveal what will make the ride a 'world's first'.

Alton Towers official Katherine Duckworth said: "Some details of the new ride are still a closely-guarded secret.

"We still cannot reveal the world's-first element."

Some good little facts there - most interesting is 64 passengers per ride! That must mean "riders on track" at one moment surely! Ride time seems a good length too, though I imagine this involves ~ 60 seconds on the "secret element"

In addition - further reinforcement that they are marketing it as a Worlds First.

Full story is here - http://www.thisisstaffordshire.co.uk/Latest-details-revealed-Alton-Towers-new-18m/story-17085124-detail/story.html

 

[Tim]

Ok the 64 passengers bit is confusing me but here's my assumption:

Like rightbackgranty I think it means 64 passengers on track at one time
(64 per train would be mental!),

so that means 64 passengers every 165 seconds roughly
(that's 2 minutes 45 which is a really good ride time!),

3600 seconds an hour divide by 165 = 21.82
This means 21 laps an hour for one cart, not including loading time but then does 64 passengers include those being loaded?

21 times by 64 = 1344pph

---

Well if that turns out to be true then that's good news

Now we just need to work out how...

 

[Nemesismad]

Isn't the track set to be on park today? Even if it is I doubt we'll see it for a few more days because of the concrete washing away.

As regards to the name, I an't see Smile being it. Because it doesn't sound sinister enough unless you know the theme and what the people who 'run' the ride try to do.

I seem to recall someone mentioned today as track day but i suspect they may delay until next week, who knows!

And for the last time (as has been proved in numerous posts) NO CONCRETE HAS WASHED AWAY

Today is supposed to mark the beginning of the track arrival yes, it could of been me that said it, in fact i think it probably was . After been held off now since the beginning of September and delayed due to adverse weather conditions making the site almost impossible to do anything with only re enforce the walls of the pit with steel work to prevent them from caving. If we don't see anything today i won't be to shocked, however from today i would be expecting to see something at least before the weeks out Work on the site has picked up quite a lot now, no concrete has washed away so don't worry, lots of footers are now down and we have a crane lowering concrete slabs into position for the pit wall nearest to Oblivions exit hole. I'am not sure they're ready for track yet though, however i think if anything the first piece to be laid out will be for the station, lots of rebar and footers around the area and to be honest it seems like the best place to start the track erection.

 

[rightbackgranty]

Ok the 64 passengers bit is confusing me but here's my assumption:

Like rightbackgranty I think it means 64 passengers on track at one time
(64 per train would be mental!),

so that means 64 passengers every 165 seconds roughly
(that's 2 minutes 45 which is a really good ride time!),

3600 seconds an hour divide by 165 = 21.82
This means 21 laps an hour for one cart, not including loading time but then does 64 passengers include those being loaded?

21 times by 64 = 1344pph

---

Well if that turns out to be true then that's good news

Now we just need to work out how...

---

Almost 3 minutes is a great ride time - the 2 lift hills on the plans will really split the ride up!

I was wondering about how there are 64 people on the track at one moment. Somewhere in the topic the newer trains that hold 12 people were mentioned. If we were go use those as an example, you could have 12 people loading, 12 people on final brake run, 24 people "on track" (2 halves of the ride) and 12 in the "secret element". If there was an extra train so there were 2 on the break run at any one time then this could lead to an approximate 60-70 people "on track" at one moment.

Then again, if we take the old "similar ride to Saw:The Ride at Thorpe Park" as seen in the Planning Document to heart, we could see 8 trains each holding 8, like the Saw has. Matches the 64 on track at one time perfectly.

Just a random guess, others with superior knowledge of block segments will probably correct me!

Or could the "worlds first" be that we will have the worlds longest train, with those at the front experiencing inversions while those at the back are still on the lift hill

 

[pluk]

Some good little facts there - most interesting is 64 passengers per ride! That must mean "riders on track" at one moment surely! Ride time seems a good length too, though I imagine this involves ~ 60 seconds on the "secret element"

From the no limits recreations made (which I accept are not going to be completely accurate) each block is about 30 seconds long and there are two at speed sections outside, which leaves 100 seconds to fill. Which seems like a long time.

64 is divisible by 8, so could be standard size cars. 8 active cars, and therefore 8 blocks, seems like a lot though. Hmmm.

 

[Nemesismad]

I think we could see 4 trains, each holding a capacity of 16, seems about right to me. 1 in loading, 1 in the secret element, 2 on track ?

 

[BigAl]

So we're probably looking at 8 of the standard 4x4 seater Eurofighter cars (booo! ) on the ride at once? Seems like quite a lot. I'd much rather see the newer Eurofighter trains but this information looks like that isn't going to happen. :/

I hope they aren't joining two standard cars together to make 4 trains of 16 riders. Two regular Eurofighter cars joined up would look a bit weird in my opinion.

 

[Nemesismad]

So we're probably looking at 8 of the standard 4x4 seater Eurofighter cars (booo! ) on the ride at once? Seems like quite a lot. I'd much rather see the newer Eurofighter trains but this information looks like that isn't going to happen. :/

I hope they aren't joining two standard cars together to make 4 trains of 16 riders. Two regular Eurofighter cars joined up would look a bit weird in my opinion.

I'am not saying it'll be 2 standard euro's joined to make 1 train, but i think it'll be a whole new car design for Gerstlauer, and 4 trains each holding 16 passengers seems more plausible than 8 standard eurofighter cars and adds up nicley to 64, 8 cars on a coasters is quite a lot !

 

[Tim]

Actually I've just worked out something else this news tells us. We can now be fairly certain this will use Euro-Fighter trains like on Saw, here's why:

64/1 = 64 people per cart
64/2 = 32 ppc
64/3 = 21.33 ppc, Impossible
64/4 = 16 ppc
64/5 = 12.8, Impossible
64/6 = 10.67, Impossible < This rules out a 6 seat cart or any cart design for 12 people.
64/7 = 6.14, Impossible
64/8 = 8 < Standard Euro-Fighter cart
ect...

Of course this doesn’t quite explain how they are going to get a throughput of 1344pph as I already calculated they’d need trains larger than 8 people to do so. It’s always possible they could have 4 16 seat trains?

---

Thanks to pluk and rightbackgranty for giving me the idea.

EDIT: I was slightly slow to post so it's pretty much already been said anyway

 

[BigAl]

Four trains does seem more appropriate in that respect. However, I'd think if it's going to be 16 riders per train that the cars would be 2x2 seaters and there'd be four cars to a train. However, would Alton really give money to Gerstlauer to make new trains when companies like Mack and Intamin already make those kinds of trains?

 

[pluk]

So, If the largest blocks are about 30 seconds long (which we pretty much know they are) and and each car holds 8 people the highest possible throughput would be 960pph. So does this confirm non standard Eurofighter? If the other throughput calculation based on now confirmed numbers is correct this old one can not be.

 

[Tim]

So, If the largest blocks are about 30 seconds long (which we pretty much know they are) and and each car holds 8 people the highest possible throughput would be 960pph. So does this confirm non standard Eurofighter? If the other throughput calculation based on now confirmed numbers is correct this old one can not be.

Correct but it confirm one of 3 different things:

1) The initial calculations from the no limits creations are wrong or (dare I say it) the finale track design is drastically different to the plans.

2) The calculations I've just made are wrong because the 64 people includes those being loaded and therefore the actual ride time is about a minute longer.

3) The carts have 16 seats which means the gaps between each Block Break is slightly longer than we predicted.

Make your pick (assuming I haven’t missed an option).

 

[rightbackgranty]

How did the ride run with 2x standard Gert trains connected? I seem to remember someone saying it valleyed at some point - though I may just be making that up!

If anything, 2 trains connected is more likely than a whole new train design. I always try to remember that it's always best to keep it simple. I'm certainly hoping that option 3 posted by Tim is the one we are going to see.

Random thought - NoLimits does speed readings doesn't it? Does the speed quoted in the article match the one seen on the recreations? How does the other data compare - may help put to rest the rumour we may see a completely different ride layout.

 

[Nemesismad]

How did the ride run with 2x standard Gert trains connected? I seem to remember someone saying it valleyed at some point - though I may just be making that up!

If anything, 2 trains connected is more likely than a whole new train design. I always try to remember that it's always best to keep it simple. I'm certainly hoping that option 3 posted by Tim is the one we are going to see.

Random thought - NoLimits does speed readings doesn't it? Does the speed quoted in the article match the one seen on the recreations? How does the other data compare - may help put to rest the rumour we may see a completely different ride layout.

Alton never keep things simple, you know that hahaha I want a new train design personally

 

[BigAl]

If the trains are going to hold 16 passengers each then I'd much prefer this...

to two of these joined together...

But I doubt Alton have paid Gerstlauer to make trains like the Intamin's. It'd be a bit of a waste of money really.

But it could always be eight ordinary Eurofighter cars rather than trains of any kind, but that just seems too much.

 

[rightbackgranty]

But I doubt Alton have paid Gerstlauer to make trains like the Intamin's. It'd be a bit of a waste of money really.

But it could always be eight ordinary Eurofighter cars rather than trains of any kind, but that just seems too much.

One work around would be to have space for 3-4 single trains on the break run and 2 trains loading at the same time much like Oblivion. Would this negate the need for the large number of block sections or am I thinking over simplistic? Mystery Mine at Dollywood seems to run on a similar system. That said, the throughput would be lower than expected, and much lower than the 1300 calculated from the data they've drip fed us.

I get the feeling that two of the standard trains joined together would lead to similar problems as Indian Jones at Disneyland Paris - unless you're on the front row, you cannot see anything at all. I've always thought it was an exercise in going upside down whilst staring at the back of a headrest.

Who knows, perhaps there is a new train design with the coaster, though I'm skeptical.

 

[Tim]

I've just done another quick calculation. If we assume the 64 people include loading (my option 2 above) and so we add 1 minute loading time to the ride time the capacity comes out as 1024pph (not far off the 960pph value pluk posted).

So this option now looks annoyingly accurate but I still live in hope that this isn't the case and we see 16 seat carts as that is a really poor throughput for a SW