Secret Weapon 7 Discussion

[Ian]

See I would agree with you if it wasn't for the compact track layout shown, and the tight elements. I just can't see how a Nemesis length train will be able to get through some of those elements. Especially the verticle lift, if the plans are to be believed.

The reason Gerst designed and produce the Eurofighter shuttle is because it's compact and agile. It can make very tight, snappy manovures which other trains would find near impossible.

Now I know the layout shown on the plans is debatable, but at the same time Towers have a limited space to fit several inversions and a lot of track into. Regardless of layout I think it's fair to say the track is going to be snug. I don't think we'll be seeing any more than 4 rows of 4, or 6 rows of 2 if we are to see a train. Any more is really pushing it I'd say.

I still think a standard EF vehicle is likely, personally. Maybe with a third row slotted between the normal two if they're that concerned about throughput. Dual shuttles will be a must with normal shuttles. Hopefully after Saw they've managed to perfect the system they use.

Towers aren't dumb. They will know this ride needs to at the very least achieve 1100pph to meet the demand it will have. The ideal target is 1400, like Nemesis I'd say. Any higher is a bonus.

 

[Sam]

I will actually cry if this is just standard 4x2 Eurofighter cars.

 

[Rob]

As promised, a photo update from the weekend.

The banners now advertising The Sanctuary:

Top of the site:

NOTE: I'm thinking the red steel beams will indeed be for the main station building structure.

Here you can see where footers are going to be placed at the bottom of the hole:

Close up:

Overview of the rest of the site:

Here you can see them continuing working on what looks like the cut and cover walls:

Sunday 14th October, completion of the wall at the bottom of the site:

Here you can see that there are also footers in the hole towards the edge of the site, suggesting that the underground section will be far more substantial than first thought:

All photos taken from areas of the park accessible to the public. Please don't copy these photos. TowersStreet as you know are free to use these!

 

[BigAl]

As much as I want Dare Devil Dive trains, I won't hold out for them. There really isn't anything remotely impressive about the standard Eurofighter cars at all. This coaster needs to be impressive and intimidating and I think they'll struggle with regular cars.

Even Saw doesn't really look that much with the gory IP and beyond vertical drop under some blades, etc... It actually looks quite cute, darting around it's short layout. SW7 should be anything but.

 

[Scott]

I've been away so hadn't fully digested the stats, facts and figures that have been revealed until now. I really hope that 4 trains of 16 people are used in some form of new Eurofighter car... As Sam and others have said, if it is the standard Eurofighter cars it will be a bit disappointing though I wouldn't lose all hope - particularly if a small car size is crucial to the world's first element.

 

[rightbackgranty]

I think we'd all be happy with 8 rows of 4, as there aren't many on the forum that have seemed overly enthusiastic about the standard trains of 8, myself included. We were just extrapolating from the existing knowledge we have of Gerst rides, and the fact that the planning document compared it with a "similar ride to saw" (I forget the exact wording)

If we were to see a new concept I doubt there would be too many complaints

 

[Scott]

I dunno if I would be happy with something as huge as 8 rows of 4... That would be a train the width and length of Nemesis' on a track which is much smaller, compacter and tighter. The ride would just not work - particularly with the incredibly tight indoor section which we will have... This is why I would much prefer a 16 person train (i.e. 4 rows of 4 or 4 cars of 4) to this as I think it would simply be more feasible.

Right now though, things are pointing to the classic Eurofighter 2x4 design or two of those bolted together...

Now... anybody ready for an insane idea (which would probably be painful and pointless for one, and has probably already been suggested somewhere along the line anyway). I'm thinking - an elongated Eurofighter car which looks like two classic cars welded back to back... Two rows facing forward and two rows facing backward with the two in the middle being directly back to back. Before the second lift, the car would be turned so you would do half the ride forward and half back?

It's wild guessing for the sake of wild guessing... I know it would be uncomfortable with the incredibly tight track design.

 

[James]

Looking at the site construction so far I think we can assume that track will be arriving over the coming weeks. It looks like they are waiting to build the 'underground' section of the ride, then cover it over, building the main station with finally moving on to building the outdoor section of the ride.

I'm certain the station would have been built by now if they didn't need the track built in that section first. The steel beams for the station appear to be on site. So there appears to be nothing stopping them from building it. So from that I'm assuming they need the track built there as soon as.

Now... anybody ready for an insane idea (which would probably be painful and pointless for one, and has probably already been suggested somewhere along the line anyway). I'm thinking - an elongated Eurofighter car which looks like two classic cars welded back to back... Two rows facing forward and two rows facing backward with the two in the middle being directly back to back. Before the second lift, the car would be turned so you would do half the ride forward and half back?

I have nothing to say apart from that is an insane idea! I know nothing of roller coasters, although wouldn't there be a chance of the forces being too strong having a design like that? Or more obviously, painful/uncomfortable? It's a different idea although I can't imagine in my head how it would work without causing problems.

 

[Scott]

Oh I know that the forces would probably be way too strong and if not too strong then uncomfortable but it was just a random thought that I know isn't really all that viable with so many inversions so closely wound.

 

[delta79]

I think we can assume that track will be arriving over the coming weeks. It looks like they are waiting to build the 'underground' section of the ride, then cover it over, building the main station with finally moving on to building the outdoor section of the ride.

If the underground section is the SW, then how are they going to hid it from the public with a great view of hole from Oblivions pause point. It wont stay secret long.

When does the park close for the season?

 

[Danny]

If the underground section is the SW, then how are they going to hid it from the public with a great view of hole from Oblivions pause point. It wont stay secret long.

When does the park close for the season?

They'll probably do what they did with Thirteen, install the secret element [and the majority of the track, if not, all of it] during the closed season.

Park closes on Sunday 4th November for the end of the 2012 season.

 

[Tim]

Now... anybody ready for an insane idea (which would probably be painful and pointless for one, and has probably already been suggested somewhere along the line anyway). I'm thinking - an elongated Eurofighter car which looks like two classic cars welded back to back... Two rows facing forward and two rows facing backward with the two in the middle being directly back to back. Before the second lift, the car would be turned so you would do half the ride forward and half back?

At first this sounded like a silly idea but having thought about it this could be a possibility. If the ride turns out as in the plans then doing one half forward and one half back would add a bit more variety to the design.

Not saying that this will happen but it's a nice concept and a good way to double capacity.

Right now though, things are pointing to the classic Eurofighter 2x4 design or two of those bolted together...

Just thought I'd clear this up as it's something that's been suggested a few times. Bolting two Euro-Fighters together is not the same as adding another cart to any standard coaster. You've got to imagine the Euro-Fighter trains (at least the Saw variety) as one single cart split in two sections. The back part of the cart can bank independently but not move independently. This makes the design far more dynamic than most single cart trains while keeping the compact design. If you bolted a second Euro-Fighter train behind it then it would be like bolting two Wild Mouse trains together; they’d be incapable of making the same tight elements without some fairly complex jointing.

But fear not, you can make trains which are capable of similar dynamic elements such as Vertical Lift Hills:

You just have to design them like that from the start. Basically what I'm saying is that if this has larger trains it'll be a whole new train design.

If they do I'm kind of hoping it will look like Dare Devil Dives carts but spread out over a full train. How would this work:
Front cart with 4 seats (2 per row), second cart with 5 seats (2 in the first row 3 in the second), third cart with 7 seats (3 in the first row, 4 in the second). Sound confusing? It’s the same staggered seating design I used for my Nightfire CTR. From above this would keep the same arrow shape of DDD while upping the capacity.

Of course this is just what I think would look cool. In reality we’ll probably see standard Euro-Fighter trains.

 

[Dave]

We are trusting that a reporter who has no knowledge of roller coasters have looked at some ride stats and written them up right.

Hmmm

 

[Equinox]

The one thing to keep in mind ATM with the speculation of track delivery and what's going to happen next, 4th of November is fast approaching...... The end of the season is in 20 days and from there they are free to do what they want with the slimmest chance of anybody getting photos of the site.

Less than 3 weeks and Alton have instant secrecy that only they can control.

It's been said before, but I really do think they are stalling now.

 

[DiogoJ42]

There is no way in hell this is going to be finished on time at his rate.

 

[Dave]

There is no way in hell this is going to be finished on time at his rate.

At the moment indications are its still on time for opening. Depends what winter brings I suppose.

 

[Dylan]

Does anyone else think that we are we are going to see a different coaster to what was shown on the plans? The groundworks don't seem to really match the landscaping plans at the bottom end of x sector?

 

[Danny]

Please tell me I'm not going to be the only one to sit here laughing if we have a bad winter, and get to say "I told you so" to Towers next year?

 

[Scott]

Please tell me I'm not going to be the only one to sit here laughing if we have a bad winter, and get to say "I told you so" to Towers next year?

You'll be in a minority certainly... As if the ride doesn't open on time, it could be a PR disaster and effect next season in a bad way.

 

[Dave]

Does anyone else think that we are we are going to see a different coaster to what was shown on the plans? The groundworks don't seem to really match the landscaping plans at the bottom end of x sector?

I think it's almost certain now, we are not getting what is on those plans.