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TBC: SW9 Speculation

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AT86 said:
@Squiggs posted a very useful insight into the 2015 ‘cross valley coaster’ (that wasn’t cross valley at all) here:

Post in thread 'Cross Valley Coaster'
https://towersstreet.com/talk/threads/cross-valley-coaster.6335/post-370870

Realistically the only actual cross valley plans to see the light of day were the 2003 ones. I would be very surprised if they attempted to build anything in that area. It seems far more trouble than it’s worth for various reasons.
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Ah, my apologies; I was under the misapprehension that the 2015 one was supposed to be a cross valley. The term “cross valley” always seemed to crop up whenever this proposal was talked about… I wonder why, because that screening opinion definitely doesn’t ask about the valley…
 
Matt N said:
Ah, my apologies; I was under the misapprehension that the 2015 one was supposed to be a cross valley. The term “cross valley” always seemed to crop up whenever this proposal was talked about… I wonder why, because that screening opinion definitely doesn’t ask about the valley…
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I think may people took the idea of a station on the Blade site and a coaster going into woodland, put 2+2 together and made cross valley. Whereas upon a thorough analysis as Squiggs did, it is more likely to go in the other direction towards the monorail sheds.
 
Matt N said:
But the thing is, though, why would Towers waste time and money designing ride concepts for the valley if it was a non-starter?

If they’d proposed it for the first time in 2003, and never mentioned it again; fair enough.

However, they proposed it again in the LTDP in 2010.

And while the 2015 proposal may not have been a cross valley in the traditional sense, not using the valley itself, it was suggested that it may have gone quite near to the valley (I remember the Gothic Prospect Tower being mentioned, and I gather that some of the woods behind FV that back onto the valley/the Gardens were also proposed as being part of the plot, if I’m remembering correctly).

However farcical enthusiasts may think the idea is, Alton Towers clearly aren’t ready to let the idea go. The fact that they’ve frittered away money on other proposals that at very least use similar areas to where parts of the cross valley coaster may have gone suggests that Alton Towers thinks that such a ride may be feasible. Why would they spend money developing these concepts heavily enough for them to go before the council if they didn’t think they’d have a decent chance of coming to fruition?

I certainly think a cross valley coaster is possible.p
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They did concept art for the theming of AIR. Then it opened with almost no theming whatsoever.

The "London Resort" commissioned loads of pretty pictures for an imaginary park that was never ever going to be built. They even went as far as to scam local authorities with their "plans".

My neighbour but in planning for an extension before they sold their house. No extension was ever built, but it it whacked a few extra grand onto the house price.

I designed a house that I would build from scratch on a hillside if I ever won the lottery (I actually did this). I never won the lottery in the end.
 
I watched one of John Wardley's Q&A's from 2017 last night and he said if they ever wanted to build the cross valley coaster he'd be more than happy to be involved. He still has the plans and would be happy to dig them out. Like it's been said though, the area probably would cause a bit of trouble. He also says he was asked to consult Wicker Man in about August 2016 or something like that, which is when the first two drops were changed, so was in the know about. Maybe that's happened with SW9? He clearly knows something and it's not unreasonable to assume he has at least minor involvement with the project. On a side note, he also said when asked about flat rides that people don't travel to theme parks to ride rides that can be found at a funfair - some foreshadowing there 4 years before it happened :tearsofjoy::sweatsmile:
 
Danscott22 said:
I watched one of John Wardley's Q&A's from 2017 last night and he said if they ever wanted to build the cross valley coaster he'd be more than happy to be involved. He still has the plans and would be happy to dig them out. Like it's been said though, the area probably would cause a bit of trouble. He also says he was asked to consult Wicker Man in about August 2016 or something like that, which is when the first two drops were changed, so was in the know about. Maybe that's happened with SW9? He clearly knows something and it's not unreasonable to assume he has at least minor involvement with the project. On a side note, he also said when asked about flat rides that people don't travel to theme parks to ride rides that can be found at a funfair - some foreshadowing there 4 years before it happened :tearsofjoy::sweatsmile:
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With all due respect to Wardley if he was to dust off his cross valley coaster off the shelve if they ever decide to go for it, I'm not a fan of going for the original plan they had as I honestly think it looks boring other than the two giant drops. Yes this will sound controversy but I'm kind of glad we never got that version of the cross valley coaster as it seems to be just one of the many 'one trick pony' ride systems that Towers have done for the USP for a ride over the years like Thirteen's drop and Smiler's many inversions and the cross valley as impressive as it would have looked, it would have been a rather slow from what I've seen in several recreations of the ride on No Limits and such mainly that section after the first big drop just seems slow and lacks the relentless nature of a woody IMO. Even Wicker Man has a bit more kick about it than the CVC.

So yeah, personally I feel we might have dodged a bullet there despite what others might think and since then with coaster designs become more unique a more ambitious layout of the cross valley coaster that was not possible back in 2003 would be possible and far greater than what Wardley could have come up with *cough*RMC*cough*.
 
TowersTimes has now posted a teaser of “the moment” where John teased something coming:

The question appears to have been something along the lines of “When asked about the most impressive coaster innovations within the next 5 years in 2001, you said about hydraulic and pneumatic launches, new vehicle designs, and pre-laminated beams on woodies. In the last 20 years, things have obviously progressed beyond what you could ever have foreseen, with Chessington’s new coaster being a prime example of that. Has anything come along lately that has really impressed or even surprised you?”.

John’s answer was simply “it is coming along… here”.

I’m not sure if there’s anything else to the answer (we’ll have to wait and see on that one when the Q&A comes tonight…), but it gives us some idea of the question that was asked.
 
Matt N said:
TowersTimes has now posted a teaser of “the moment” where John teased something coming:

The question appears to have been something along the lines of “When asked about the most impressive coaster innovations within the next 5 years in 2001, you said about hydraulic and pneumatic launches, new vehicle designs, and pre-laminated beams on woodies. In the last 20 years, things have obviously progressed beyond what you could ever have foreseen, with Chessington’s new coaster being a prime example of that. Has anything come along lately that has really impressed or even surprised you?”.

John’s answer was simply “it is coming along… here”.

I’m not sure if there’s anything else to the answer (we’ll have to wait and see on that one when the Q&A comes tonight…), but it gives us some idea of the question that was asked.
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Water coaster with inversions…I’m calling it!
 
Ok so from that it is clearly referring to SW9 and not Duel or Nemesis as was mentioned earlier in the thread, as the question is specifically about coasters. I know all this thread has been so far is speculation, and will continue to be speculation for a while. But that is definitely the first signs of confirmation of something exciting!
 
It's worth noting that whilst John Wardley seems a nice chap, he is essentially a Merlin hype man for enthusiasts. I'm sure his intentions are genuine with these events but my skeptical side thinks he is wheeled out by the suits to keep the nerds on side.

So when he says "something huge/crazy/industry-changing is coming" I can't help but think it's all typical Merlin talk.

That's not to say I'm doubting him in any way and I'm sure a solid investment is coming, but it may not be as special as we think.

Sorry to be a Debbie Downer 😂
 
RicketyCricket said:
It's worth noting that whilst John Wardley seems a nice chap, he is essentially a Merlin hype man for enthusiasts. I'm sure his intentions are genuine with these events but my skeptical side thinks he is wheeled out by the suits to keep the nerds on side.

So when he says "something huge/crazy/industry-changing is coming" I can't help but think it's all typical Merlin talk.

That's not to say I'm doubting him in any way and I'm sure a solid investment is coming, but it may not be as special as we think.

Sorry to be a Debbie Downer 😂
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John has been fairly candid about certain aspects of Merlin in the past, and not all of it has been positive. He’s hardly a Merlin yes man by any means.

For instance, he’s been openly critical of Merlin/Varney’s USP based stance on numerous occasions, and remember that he was also the man who once described parts of Wicker Man’s layout profile as “absolutely atrocious”!

Also, he didn’t necessarily have to give a Towers-centred answer to that question. He could quite easily have just cited a development elsewhere if he’d wanted to.

It’s also worth remembering that he was unlikely to have been told that question in advance, so that would likely have been an off-the-cuff response rather than something Merlin had told him to drop hints about in advance.
 
Matt N said:
John has been fairly candid about certain aspects of Merlin in the past, and not all of it has been positive. He’s hardly a Merlin yes man by any means.

For instance, he’s been openly critical of Merlin/Varney’s USP based stance on numerous occasions, and remember that he was also the man who once described parts of Wicker Man’s layout profile as “absolutely atrocious”!

Also, he didn’t necessarily have to give a Towers-centred answer to that question. He could quite easily have just cited a development elsewhere if he’d wanted to.

It’s also worth remembering that he was unlikely to have been told that question in advance, so that would likely have been an off-the-cuff response rather than something Merlin had told him to drop hints about in advance.
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Yeah I'm probably being a bit harsh. But I'd be surprised if Merlin/Towers don't brief him on certain do's and don'ts before these events.
 
He'll know the sort of things he can and can't say, that clip is probably as far as it'll go regarding SW9.

Makes me more inclined to believe it could be a B&M if he's more involved with this project than SW8 due to his relationship with them and this rumoured deal Merlin have struck up. Will be interesting to listen to the interview either way.
 
The only thing I've learned over the years is that when Wardley starts saying things, it's around the same period that other rumours surface and planning applications go in. Once the planning applications are in and the project is on the go John loves to get involved where respectful to the main developers. Moreso with the Smiler than Wickerman, but obviously he still came in with a change to the Wickerman layout. Personally I would be very surprised if John Wardley wasn't very aware of the next SW at Alton.
 
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