Thatcher's dead

[TheMan]

That's the thing with strong leaders, they are often hated because they make difficult choices that some people don't like.
She must of been right most of the time or she would have been voted out.

British politics has followed a depressingly similar course ad infinitum ever since WW2. The Tories have little interest in the common welfare of the majority, but gain votes predicated on a campaign that focuses on deliberately divisional issues such as race and social class, the classic "Are you thinking what we're thinking stuff?" Admittedly this is usually done in the wake of overspending by a left leaning government. People voted Thatcher in on the strength of this rhetoric, but then, as now, realised the mistake they had made. Or in some cases, they didn't vote her in at all, and suffered the brunt regardless.

Absolutely spot on! I fell for the Big Society nonsense as it tied in with much of what I was doing - interesting not a SOLITARY Tory could be contacted or responded to calls for help, yet both Labour and Green party top brass (and I mean TOP brass) did so with great joy and spirit of giving back...

Lesson learned there, that is for sure.

They spin their way out of making frankly unbelievable statements and actions. Well they don't, but they actually don't care, their "is he one of us?" moniker so abundantly and famously used by Thatcher is still clearly prevalent to day, is one of such incredible arrogance I really do struggle to understand how anyone can support it.

Interestingly, they do make some sensible decisions, more balanced than the sometimes socialist insistence everyone must be equal, even if they don't want to be ;D - but then their economic and general social policies are almost Victorian in their nature.

Can anyone honestly say, this government does not have that same Thatcherism "Is He One of Us?" attitude?

 

[Martin]

It's not so much her death as the fact she's not alive any more. I'm not sorry to have raised a toast to the grim reaper. I am sorry she was ever born in the first place, though.

 

[Aspyrational]

You're glorifying war.

The Belgrano was outside the exclusion zone and returning to Argentina. That's not justifiable. It wasn't posing a threat. They didn't have to sink it, they murdered 323 men.

Why did the Argentine navy themselves admit the sinking was a legitimate act of war ?

Maybe they should have consulted a keyboard warrior who cuts and pastes stuff from elsewhere and passes it off as their own.

I wrote that myself. But it's cute that I'm a 'keyboard warrior' for being against killing people.

I'm pleased for you being lucky enough to not have to hate Thatcher, but she was a thoroughly evil woman and she's got what she deserved.

Let's look at the evidence should we ?

The Belgrano captain Hector Bonzo

‘It was absolutely not a war crime,it was an act of war, lamentably legal.’



Or how about the Argentine admiral Enrique Molina Pico who admitted the location of the Belgrano outside the Exclusion Zone ‘did not mean it was withdrawn from the war’, and who went on to say
'the integrated naval force had been deployed to carry out an attack on the British fleet in a co-ordinated operation with other naval groups,the heading away from the enemy fleet was only momentary, as the commander saw fit to wait for a more convenient time (to attack).
The Belgrano and the other ships were a threat and a danger to the British.’


So, who to listen to, a toytown trot with an agenda, or the leaders of the Argentinian who were there, planning and fighting the war.

Tricky one.

 

[Rupert]

Under Thatcher, the proportion of pensioners living below the poverty line rose from 13% to 43%. Under Thatcher, child poverty more than doubled. Under Thatcher, tax rates for the rich fell from 83% to 40%. She introduced NHS managers and wow they've been a great success.

 

[Martin]

Toy Town Trot? That's the best insult since 'Silly little boy'. The best you can do? Is that you, BigT?

People, including civilians, died. And you're ok with that because they were from Argentina.

And let's ignore the war. What about everything else?

Are you going to find a quote by Mandela where he says "Actually, fair play to Maggie, I wasn't fighting against Apartheid, I was just another terrorist"?

 

[Laura]

I agree with Gary. To me she was a person in power when I was very young. But (personally) she represents general ideals that were applicable to my family during my upbringing, and so have shaped my beliefs and values as an adult. Not everything she did was wonderful and the same is true for every political figure.

What I find most awful is that social media (and probably the rest of this thread if I went back and read it) is subjecting me to the nasty, hateful messages my friends are spewing from the safety of their monitors about 'Tory Scum' and 'The Witch is Dead' and so on.

I would never force my views on ANYONE and I certainly would not post (or say) inflammatory things about other people's political views, in the same way I wouldn't about race, religion, sexual orientation, and so on. I only wish other people could be so courteous! But because the majority of my friends share the same view, it's apparently OK for them to post hateful generalisations about people who vote in a certain way.

Maybe if I was vocal about particular issues then I would be deserving of it. But I'm not. I am faithful to my own political beliefs and I use them only to shape the way I live my life.

This is something that has bothered me for a very long time and every time there is a 'flare up' like this I find the same horrible messages condemning me for voting a particular way. I find it upsetting. I'm sure it's nowhere near the level that other minorities suffer and I know the abuse isn't personal, but my friends make me feel like a criminal and a freak. And that is the one thing I can't get to grips with in social media.

I think you just probably need to develop more conviction in your inherited beliefs.

I am not from a poor background in the grand scheme of things, and I find many political actions abhorrent and heartless, but principally from the Tory party. It's difficult to accept someone like yourself demanding tolerance and respect for the way you feel, essentially progress, when they're essentially what Thatcher herself lacked - the working classes, homosexuals, women and at the worst of times, anyone lacking rampant ambition suffered at her hands.

Perhaps the nose turning is the price you pay for your wealth?

Sorry, I'm not sure if this is a dig at me or not. I don't consider any political party perfect nor do I consider myself a perfect person, apologies if I did not make this clear.

We are all individuals and I was just expressing my upset that social networking does not allow for us to be considered as individuals. I disagree with a lot of things she did and I disagree with a lot of things the current government is doing. This goes for Dobba as well who has also made a comment directed at me - I fully accept that politics (the same as the ENTIRE WORLD) is full of blithering idiots making ridiculous claims and comparisons to further their own agenda. I am certainly not defending anyone.

Incidentally, if it IS me you're having a dig at, I don't feel it's helpful or necessary for me to explain my reasons and actions for why I feel like I do and I find your comments very hurtful. I am certainly not wealthy by any means and I find it horrible that you have just assumed that. You have just made a generalisation that, while there is nothing wrong with, has caused me upset. That's the point I'm making.

I'm not telling anyone to stop, I'm not telling anyone they're wrong. I certainly haven't 'demanded' anything, I've 'expressed a wish!' I'm just saying that it upsets me. Maybe it upsets other people? I felt it was worth posting it to find out, even if I was opening myself up for more grief and I probably should have done what I always do and kept it to myself. If you've judged me for it then I'm sorry that you've felt the need to.

 

[Aspyrational]

Toy Town Trot? That's the best insult since 'Silly little boy'. The best you can do? Is that you, BigT?

People, including civilians, died. And you're ok with that because they were from Argentina.

And let's ignore the war. What about everything else?

Are you going to find a quote by Mandela where he says "Actually, fair play to Maggie, I wasn't fighting against Apartheid, I was just another terrorist"?

Why ignore the war ? You've made statements about the Belgrano that have been proved to be false.
Why should we believe a word you type ?

 

[Martin]

Because we've gone on several pages about the war, and you've made it quite clear you're delighted with people dying because they're foreign.

You don't have to believe a word I type, Thatcher ACTUALLY did make the country a worse place, actually did call Mandela a terrorist, whether I say she did or not.

Are you focusing on the war because it's the one thing she did that you can defend?

 

[DiogoJ42]

France was our biggest supporter over the Falklands.

They also sold Argentina most of their weapons.

 

[pluk]

she was a thoroughly evil woman and she's got what she deserved.

Lived in comfort until she was nearly 90 then died peacefully in her sleep?

 

[TheMan]

If this thread proves anything, it is that I am no where near as controversial a figure in this place as I thought I was ;D

Maggie was a determined old bird that's for sure, we really need to start undoing the damage and obsession of a "free market economy" - which is an oxymoron anyway by the way - and look at viable alternatives.

The Tories got given another chance, the power went straight to their heads, and they instantly reverted to type as soon as they got their backsides behind that dispatch box.

"Is He One of Us?"

No Maggie, after the recent spate of damaging Thatcherism, I can assure you - he is most definitely not.

Can we all agree to give the Greens a try? For the time, they are certainly no more radical in ideals than Thatcher was.

 

[Martin]

she was a thoroughly evil woman and she's got what she deserved.

Lived in comfort until she was nearly 90 then died peacefully in her sleep?

Mental and physical deterioration stretched out over a decade. Thinking her dead husband was still alive, unable to recognise her mate Archer.

 

[Plastic Person]

I agree with Gary. To me she was a person in power when I was very young. But (personally) she represents general ideals that were applicable to my family during my upbringing, and so have shaped my beliefs and values as an adult. Not everything she did was wonderful and the same is true for every political figure.

What I find most awful is that social media (and probably the rest of this thread if I went back and read it) is subjecting me to the nasty, hateful messages my friends are spewing from the safety of their monitors about 'Tory Scum' and 'The Witch is Dead' and so on.

I would never force my views on ANYONE and I certainly would not post (or say) inflammatory things about other people's political views, in the same way I wouldn't about race, religion, sexual orientation, and so on. I only wish other people could be so courteous! But because the majority of my friends share the same view, it's apparently OK for them to post hateful generalisations about people who vote in a certain way.

Maybe if I was vocal about particular issues then I would be deserving of it. But I'm not. I am faithful to my own political beliefs and I use them only to shape the way I live my life.

This is something that has bothered me for a very long time and every time there is a 'flare up' like this I find the same horrible messages condemning me for voting a particular way. I find it upsetting. I'm sure it's nowhere near the level that other minorities suffer and I know the abuse isn't personal, but my friends make me feel like a criminal and a freak. And that is the one thing I can't get to grips with in social media.

I think you just probably need to develop more conviction in your inherited beliefs.

I am not from a poor background in the grand scheme of things, and I find many political actions abhorrent and heartless, but principally from the Tory party. It's difficult to accept someone like yourself demanding tolerance and respect for the way you feel, essentially progress, when they're essentially what Thatcher herself lacked - the working classes, homosexuals, women and at the worst of times, anyone lacking rampant ambition suffered at her hands.

Perhaps the nose turning is the price you pay for your wealth?

Sorry, I'm not sure if this is a dig at me or not. I don't consider any political party perfect nor do I consider myself a perfect person, apologies if I did not make this clear.

We are all individuals and I was just expressing my upset that social networking does not allow for us to be considered as individuals. I disagree with a lot of things she did and I disagree with a lot of things the current government is doing. This goes for Dobba as well who has also made a comment directed at me - I fully accept that politics (the same as the ENTIRE WORLD) is full of blithering idiots making ridiculous claims and comparisons to further their own agenda. I am certainly not defending anyone.

Incidentally, if it IS me you're having a dig at, I don't feel it's helpful or necessary for me to explain my reasons and actions for why I feel like I do and I find your comments very hurtful. I am certainly not wealthy by any means and I find it horrible that you have just assumed that. You have just made a generalisation that, while there is nothing wrong with, has caused me upset. That's the point I'm making.

I'm not telling anyone to stop, I'm not telling anyone they're wrong. I certainly haven't 'demanded' anything, I've 'expressed a wish!' I'm just saying that it upsets me. Maybe it upsets other people? I felt it was worth posting it to find out, even if I was opening myself up for more grief and I probably should have done what I always do and kept it to myself. If you've judged me for it then I'm sorry that you've felt the need to.

Well, it is and it isn't a dig at you, like most discussions on this or any forum. I was mainly just highlighting what I see as the irony of you calling for tolerance at being 'treated like a freak' for being a Conservative supporter. Although then again, you haven't identified yourself either way, your post is so vague as to what you actually mean and the meat of why you feel like you do. Sorry for assuming you're wealthy too, but your post implied that Thatcher's policies were important to your family, and Thatcher's policies were largely dictated by pleasing the wealthy.

The whole nation is reflecting on the legacy of a woman who statistically brought large parts of the country to it's knees, and whilst I personally can't advocate grave jigging, many of them are still reeling. There are more upsetting truths than how you feel as a maligned Tory, for all involved.

 

[Sam]

she was a thoroughly evil woman and she's got what she deserved.

Lived in comfort until she was nearly 90 then died peacefully in her sleep?

Mental and physical deterioration stretched out over a decade. Thinking her dead husband was still alive, unable to recognise her mate Archer.

The only thing more inhuman than people celebrating her death is you seemingly saying that she deserved to develop dementia and forget that her husband was dead.

Utterly, utterly repugnant.

 

[Martin]

Normally I'd agree, but for Thatcher I'm making an exception. For reasons I've listed many times over the course of this topic.

 

[Plastic Person]

Normally I'd agree, but for Thatcher I'm making an exception. For reasons I've listed many times over the course of this topic.

Blaze, you're more informed than most on this matter in my opinion, but you're definitely indulging your inner Thatcher here.

 

[pluk]

'wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy' isn't supposed to be just a catchy phrase, it is about being humane.

Whatever it is that Thatcher did to upset you so you are making me wonder whether you deserve it.

 

[Danza91]

I won't say much because I'm not informed enough about Thatcher to voice a real opinion, I'm aware of the major decisions she made. However, I must say the brutality of some of the comments I've seen on here and other social media has shocked me and I personally find it quite disturbing that people have been so vocal in expressing their pleasure in someone else's death. I personally find that low.

I've also noticed that everyone has a degree in history and/or politics.

 

[Tom]

I don't see why people should express joy really, but I do understand why people couldn't care less.

She encouraged class wars and represented sociological in-fighting in this country and the misery of the many families who had their homes repossessed under her economy most likely eclipses whatever misery she was capable of experiencing with dementia.

 

[ChocolateStarfish]

My gran died of dementia Blaze, its not to be even joked about, highly offensive to even suggest that people who get it deserve too.

As for making the country a worse place? Very objectionable I would say, a miner on an unsustainable salary might agree with you but anyone with the slightest aspiration wouldn't.
Even Lord Sugar (a labour donator) admitted she made it possible for a poor east end lad to make it big, not just the elite.
She made mistakes yes but she did what she thought was right (whether right or wrong in your opinion) and not try and be all things to all people to win votes like these clowns of all party's in parliament now.
Most normal people respect and understand that, even people that disagreed with her politics.

To celebrate her death is just pure sick, and makes me disgusted to be British, but thank goodness it's just a tiny minority of sicko's.