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The Brexit Thread

Doublethink said:
I can't see things being good for labour here. The majority of labour voters on the whole are remain. Labour have no clear stance on Brexit so I can forsee them hemorrhage voters to the firm remain lib Dems, hence the extreme reluctantly of the labour party to support the call for an election
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Labour's Brexit policy is actually fairly pragmatic and sensible, but electorally it's difficult to explain.

bluesonichd said:
I’m hopping boris gets the deal through before the election, then the Lib Dem’s are completely screwed :tearsofjoy:
Also means parties can actually campaign on more important issues
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This sounds sensible but if you think about what Brexit is and how it could (and will) fundamentally change our country, economy etc - it's difficult pre or post.
 
BarryZola said:
Stop acting so entitled.
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He's not acting entitled - just thinking the same as everyone else:

Alsty said:
people will treat it the election as a referendum and vote solely on a single issue without considering the party's other policies.
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Everyone will vote based on Brexit and nothing else this time around. That's why we're having this second early election after all.
 
BarryZola said:
It's democratic because most of the people where you live have decided that that's the way they would like to vote. Stop acting so entitled. People are allowed to vote differently to you. If it was up to you people would only be able to vote the way you like it and only be allowed to travel around on trains.
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How is actually wanting my vote to count for something "acting so entitled"?
 
grrrr said:
With a record number of people unable to make ends meet because they're being screwed over by zero-hour contracts.
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Don't forget another recession on the horizon!

The Tories have let workers rights and the general standard of living suffer over the last ten years, and they will keep the country in a permanent state of austerity as it works for them. They have said as much in the past, and even the recent claims that "austerity is on the way out" involve returning government spending to the same levels as 2010, ie. not taking inflation into account.

The Murdoch and Dacre press keep peddling their 'strivers versus skivers' narrative on behalf of those at the top, when really everyone from minimum to average wage is being royally screwed over, again and again. This will get worse after Brexit, and without some of the protections afforded within the EU.
 
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all this scare bull from Labour about worker rites, environment etc will be worse after brexit as we dont align with the EU now...
yes we wont be bogged down having to follow we can lead and be better than them.
 
bluesonichd said:
all this scare bull from Labour about worker rites, environment etc will be worse after brexit as we dont align with the EU now...
yes we wont be bogged down having to follow we can lead and be better than them.
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Classic brexiter strategy: dismiss legitimate concerns as "project fear". We can already be better than them (minimum wage is an example). What the EU protects against is the removal of these rights. I don't want my government to have the power to introduce the death penalty, thanks (as an example)
 
bluesonichd said:
all this scare bull from Labour about worker rites, environment etc will be worse after brexit as we dont align with the EU now...
yes we wont be bogged down having to follow we can lead and be better than them.
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We commit to align with the EU and in most cases our domestic law improves upon the European requirement.

Many EU requirements are a minimum standard, so if you plan to be 'better' you can ignore the requirement because you are exceeding it.

The confusion for a number of people seemingly comes because there are promises that we will do what you suggest (exceed European requirements), whilst the same individuals have sought to remove the legal requirement for regulatory alignment from the Withdrawal Agreement (legally binding treaty) and stuck it in the Political Declaration (the letter to santa).
 
At the moment it does feel like a general election with almost act as a referendum on Brexit, which does have a number of issues, from the first past the post system giving some voters a disproportionate influence to the fact there are a lot of other important issues out there. It’ll be interesting to see whether the political narrative shifts once campaigning begins properly. I’ve heard Boris Johnson mention ‘parachute funds’ to help certain industries cope with the impact of Brexit. I’ve heard him mention more money, particularly for policing. I’ve heard him talk about tax cuts to stimulate the economy. But does he have a carefully costed plan? Or has he got a magic money tree growing in his back garden?

On one hand I can see a strong argument for saying something needs to break the stalemate. On the other hand, if we do leave the EU and the government starts negotiating trade deals around the world, a government with a strong majority might be able to act decisively, but the lack of scrutiny is also concerning.

I think if the discourse does move over from Brexit to other issues, the Brexit Party stands to do badly out of it, the Conservatives will also suffer and Labour might come out quite well, although I’m biased, because I’m more left wing. I do think there has been a gradual change in the use of zero-hour contracts and a rise in people who are underemployed. There seem to be a lot of people on zero hour contracts who rely on multiple jobs or benefits to top things up. But then again, a lot of work class people do seem to vote for the Conservatives, which boggles my mind.
 
bluesonichd said:
all this scare bull from Labour about worker rites, environment etc will be worse after brexit as we dont align with the EU now...
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That's totally not true - if this government can get away with abolishing things like the working time directive, parental leave, annual leave, health and safety laws, even human rights laws - under the guise of 'reducing red tape for business', you'd better believe that they'll scrap them in a second. More money for the greedy fatcat corporate donors, less money for your average hard working member of the public.
 
I know Kay Burley is largely unwelcome in these parts, but this is quite an amusing exchange;

Matt Hancock: "New cancer treatments are being rolled out "from Barnsley to Bassetlaw; from Wigan to Warrington."
Kay Burley: "That's not very far, you know."
Matt Hancock: "It's also happening in Cornwall."
 
The main problem I see with using a general election is that it's all up to interpretation. Many might say a vote for labour is a vote for remain, but their stance is clearly leave with a different deal. A vote for the Brexit party is a vote for no deal, a vote for conservatives is a vote for a deal. Its going to offer very little clarity over what the public wants, and I think it's fairly likely each 'side' will claim their own victory by interpreting numbers however they fall.

This gives all MPs their room to continue, as they have been rightly doing, working in their best interests. Unless there is a significant shift, it's hard to see right now those priorities aligning.
 
delta79 said:
They have said if they got into power they would stop brexit.
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They also promised not to increase student tuition fees, then almost immediately u-turned on that as soon as they got a sniff of power.

I can’t see the Lib Dems gaining many seats in this election anyway...
 
I can see the lib dems doing well...
I just can't vote for either of the main parties, and I know a lot of people who feel the same.
The middle ground will expand this time, due to a lack of decent alternatives.
 
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