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The I Feel Down Topic.

Well, Murphy (probably) had a stroke, had to make the call. Jalad passed from old age. Now Bishop had that horrible eye injury / infection, and just kept getting worse... had to make the call again.

Am now left with Calculon (crazy affectionate squeaky nutter), Hudzen (violent psyco who likes the taste of blood), and newbies Curzon and Melllvar (don't like being handled yet).
 
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Can someone stop me spiralling?

I’ve got an interview on Thursday, and a mock interview on Monday. I’m coming up with STAR examples ahead of these… but I’m just doubting everything. In some cases, I know what I want to say, but when I open my mouth to say the words, I can’t seem to say it in a way that doesn’t sound scripted or without tripping over my words. And in other cases, I think I have really good examples, but they seem thinner than I’d anticipated when I try and flesh them out. I’ve got a lead example for each Behaviour, but I’m struggling with backup examples. I just think everything sounds rubbish when I try and flesh it out.

It’s just making me doubt everything… I’ve been thinking about it for hours, but nothing seems to make sense.
 
Matt N said:
Can someone stop me spiralling?

I’ve got an interview on Thursday, and a mock interview on Monday. I’m coming up with STAR examples ahead of these… but I’m just doubting everything. In some cases, I know what I want to say, but when I open my mouth to say the words, I can’t seem to say it in a way that doesn’t sound scripted or without tripping over my words. And in other cases, I think I have really good examples, but they seem thinner than I’d anticipated when I try and flesh them out. I’ve got a lead example for each Behaviour, but I’m struggling with backup examples. I just think everything sounds rubbish when I try and flesh it out.

It’s just making me doubt everything… I’ve been thinking about it for hours, but nothing seems to make sense.
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Matt. Stop. Breathe.

Very long inspirational goose speech incoming, let me just type it out first. TLDR will be you've got this and we've got you.

You're spiralling because you are treating this like a memory test for a script, rather than a conversation about things you have actually done.

The STAR method is a framework, not a straight jacket. The reason you feel "scripted" and are tripping over your words is likely because you're trying to remember specific sentences you have written down, rather than remembering the event itself.

If I asked you to tell me about the time you went to PortAventura, you wouldn't need a script. You would just tell me the story. You know what happened because you were there. Treat your examples the same way. You don't need to memorise the lines. You just need to remember the plot points.

Don't fall into the trap of thinking an example needs to be about saving the world or restructuring a global conglomerate to be valid.

Interviewers (especially for CS roles) are not looking for complexity; they're looking for competence.

A "thin" example where you clearly explain exactly what you did, why you did it, and what the result was, is infinitely better than a complex, "thick" example where you get lost in the details of the project and forget to mention your own contribution.

Focus heavily on the Action part of STAR. That is the only bit they care about. They don't care about the Context (Situation) other than to set the scene. They care about the decisions you made.

You have a First Class degree. You have an MSc. You have successfully navigated university. You are articulate and thoughtful (as evidenced by your posts here). You have already passed the application sift, which means they already think you are capable of doing the job. Crucially, you already are doing the sodding job. The interview is just to confirm that you are a human being they can work with. (That's me out of the equation)

Put the notes down for the rest of the evening. Go and watch something mindless on TV. Spend some hours twiddling on Planet Coaster. Your brain needs to rest, not rehearse.

You've got this.
 
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Matt N said:
Can someone stop me spiralling?

I’ve got an interview on Thursday, and a mock interview on Monday. I’m coming up with STAR examples ahead of these… but I’m just doubting everything. In some cases, I know what I want to say, but when I open my mouth to say the words, I can’t seem to say it in a way that doesn’t sound scripted or without tripping over my words. And in other cases, I think I have really good examples, but they seem thinner than I’d anticipated when I try and flesh them out. I’ve got a lead example for each Behaviour, but I’m struggling with backup examples. I just think everything sounds rubbish when I try and flesh it out.

It’s just making me doubt everything… I’ve been thinking about it for hours, but nothing seems to make sense.
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Go do something else for a few hours mate...
Nice night walk, silly comedy, or a dodgy kebab.

You have nothing to gain by stressing, job interviews are always difficult.

But you are in house, and have experience and references.
And a weird hobby.

...then read the goosey follow up.
 
I wish that I could advise you. Unfortunately, though, I've never worked in the public sector. But yeah, I get the impression that Goose knows very well what he's on about. Listen to him.

If all else fails after that, we're all just passing time on this planet until we die. You'll eventually find that the most important and beautiful thing on this earth is spending time with those that you love. As long as you're safe, have good food and have a good roof over your head, it's all good.
 
I think our feathered friend has hit the nail on the head 🪿

Relax, you are already doing the job and interviewing for a permanent position so it's a formality that you're being interviewed. Knock your socks off and show them that you should be kept on permanently, you've got a head start.

Overstressing will cause you to get nervous and overthink so focus on something to get your mind off things ☺️ If you can write analytical essays for TowersStreet, then you'll absolutely smash the interview

Let us know how you get on here or on the TowersStreet discord and we'll send you a drink to your table when you're at spoons if you'd like to celebrate 😁
 
Thanks all for the encouragement.

I think part of my issue is that the Civil Service interviews are incredibly structured and expect you to hit very specific bullet point indicators in your answers.

If I say so myself, I don’t seem to do too badly at interviews where the format is more of a bright and breezy conversation about technical skills and experiences. I did two private sector interviews that were of this format over the summer, as well as my interview for the contract job, and I got taken forward to whatever the next stage was in all 3 cases. For one job, I even got through to a final stage practical interview, where although I didn’t get the job, I was given roundly positive feedback with some polite areas of improvement and told that I was strong and that they enjoyed meeting me.

But when you are being marked against such specific (yet simultaneously incredibly vague and hand-wavey) bullet point behavioural indicators, I find it difficult not to fall into the trap of trying to remember specific sentences. I seem to do dreadfully at the STAR-style behavioural questions; I remember hating them when applying for graduate schemes with the video interview questions (although I don’t think having to talk into the ether in front of a camera helped there…), and I just seem to fall into a bit of a wooden mess trying to deliver them. Although with that said, I thought that about the last time I did a presentation and was told I came across well, so who knows?

I’m keen to prepare and don’t want to enter the room on Monday or Thursday unprepared, but I am starting to wonder if over preparation might be my enemy. My issue is that I’m not a naturally calm person about things like this and like to be prepared for every potential outcome. I overthink, I catastrophise, and I also take everything very literally. The stakes also feel a lot higher for this interview than previous ones I’ve done; whereas failing previous applications or interviews could be brushed off as part of the process to an extent while I was still in uni, failing this interview would mean I’ll very likely lose a job I really like at the end of March.
 
Matt N said:
Thanks all for the encouragement.

I think part of my issue is that the Civil Service interviews are incredibly structured and expect you to hit very specific bullet point indicators in your answers.

If I say so myself, I don’t seem to do too badly at interviews where the format is more of a bright and breezy conversation about technical skills and experiences. I did two private sector interviews that were of this format over the summer, as well as my interview for the contract job, and I got taken forward to whatever the next stage was in all 3 cases. For one job, I even got through to a final stage practical interview, where although I didn’t get the job, I was given roundly positive feedback with some polite areas of improvement and told that I was strong and that they enjoyed meeting me.

But when you are being marked against such specific (yet simultaneously incredibly vague and hand-wavey) bullet point behavioural indicators, I find it difficult not to fall into the trap of trying to remember specific sentences. I seem to do dreadfully at the STAR-style behavioural questions; I remember hating them when applying for graduate schemes with the video interview questions (although I don’t think having to talk into the ether in front of a camera helped there…), and I just seem to fall into a bit of a wooden mess trying to deliver them. Although with that said, I thought that about the last time I did a presentation and was told I came across well, so who knows?

I’m keen to prepare and don’t want to enter the room on Monday or Thursday unprepared, but I am starting to wonder if over preparation might be my enemy. My issue is that I’m not a naturally calm person about things like this and like to be prepared for every potential outcome. I overthink, I catastrophise, and I also take everything very literally. The stakes also feel a lot higher for this interview than previous ones I’ve done; whereas failing previous applications or interviews could be brushed off as part of the process to an extent while I was still in uni, failing this interview would mean I’ll very likely lose a job I really like at the end of March.
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Matt, I'm going to ask you to stop for a moment and look at the logic of the situation, because your anxiety is currently driving you insane.

I think you need to fundamentally reframe the stakes here.

You are not interviewing to save your job. Your current contract ends in March. That's a fixed point in time. That job is ending regardless of what happens on Thursday.

You're interviewing for a new, permanent position doing a job you already know you can do, in a department that clearly likes you enough to encourage you to apply, with a line manager who is actively supporting you.

You are the incumbent. That's the single biggest advantage a candidate can have.

When the panel asks a question about "Managing a Quality Service" or "Delivering at Pace", every other candidate has to reach back into their memory of a university group project or a part time job at Tesco and try to mold that experience to fit the Civil Service language.

You just have to describe what you did last Tuesday.

Civil Service interviews are wooden. They aren't conversations, they're evidence gathering exercises. The interviewers are literally ticking boxes on a score sheet. Being "very literal" is actually a superpower here. They don't want a meandering, charismatic story about your philosophy on data. They just want to know specifically what you did.

You feel like you are tripping over words because you're trying to memorise a script. Throw the script away. You know the STAR headings. You know the story of what you did. Just tell them the story.

"I needed to fix X."

"I decided to use Y method because Z."

"I encountered this problem, so I did this."

"The result was it worked."

"I learned this as a result, I might consider doing that next time."

That’s it. That’s the answer.

We all catastrophise. It's just your brain trying to run a risk assessment on a future event to protect you. It's a survival mechanism, but in this instance, it's giving you false data.

Be kinder to yourself. You are incredibly qualified, you have industry experience, and you are already doing the job. You are the strongest candidate in the room before you even sit down.
 
To second all of what Goose has said. Unless they're very poor at their role, CS is interviewers will do all they can to get the best out of you.

I've conducted interviews before where planning a holiday was used as an example of planning a project. It involved money, deadlines, and requirements so hit the basic elements of a project. It was for an entry level project support role so they scored the points they needed because they could describe what they did and it was broadly relevant.

You're in a much more solid position than that candidate as you have proper examples from the actual role. In the nicest possible way, pull yourself together. If you wind yourself up too much you will be your own worst enemy.
 
Vik said:
This is where alcohol come in handy. It might not solve the issues at hand but helps you forget about them. 😀
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I can vouch for that...I do have a drinking problem because of my own personal issues but I'll say no more.
 
I was unsuccessful at interview for my job.

I was told that while I structured my answers well, my behaviour examples were too simplistic for the grade and lacked the required challenge and scale. My team lead has recommended I drop a grade when looking for jobs in order to build up a bit more experience before applying to other roles at this grade.

I know I shouldn’t take it personally, but I feel very dejected and like this was almost the worst possible outcome. I feel embarrassed because it’s a job I effectively already do, and I’d almost feel better if I was told that I didn’t structure my answers well enough because that’s something I can easily work on. But the fact that I can’t provide examples with sufficient challenge for the grade of job when I have effectively already done the job for 6 months makes me feel like I’m rubbish at my job and is something I can’t remedy as easily.
 
Ah Matt that sucks. Are they advertising any other roles at the moment? Best to jump back on that horse and try again once you've had time to dust yourself off a bit. And at least they gave you some feedback (did they give anything else useful?) so you can use that to help your next attempt.

Don't give up - CS interviews are weird and the people conducting them are not always very good at it. Use it to learn from.

Best of luck
 
Matt N said:
I was unsuccessful at interview for my job.

I was told that while I structured my answers well, my behaviour examples were too simplistic for the grade and lacked the required challenge and scale. My team lead has recommended I drop a grade when looking for jobs in order to build up a bit more experience before applying to other roles at this grade.

I know I shouldn’t take it personally, but I feel very dejected and like this was almost the worst possible outcome. I feel embarrassed because it’s a job I effectively already do, and I’d almost feel better if I was told that I didn’t structure my answers well enough because that’s something I can easily work on. But the fact that I can’t provide examples with sufficient challenge for the grade of job when I have effectively already done the job for 6 months makes me feel like I’m rubbish at my job and is something I can’t remedy as easily.
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I'm really sorry Matt, I thought you had this in the bag... but this is absolutely nothing (really) to do with you or your ability. Please detach your self worth from the bureaucratic absurdity of the Civil Service competencies framework.

The feedback does not mean you are rubbish at your job. It does not mean you are incompetent. It does not mean you have failed.
The system, I promise you, is broken.

You're a developer. In the private sector, your "grade" is determined by your technical ability, your code quality and your output. CS grades are determined by a rigid set of behavioural competencies that were designed for policy writers and project managers, NOT software engineers. You've run into the tech pay trap.

The Civil Service have to slot you into a higher grade to pay you a competitive developer rate. The competency framework for higher grades, however, expects you to be managing stakeholders, leading strategic change, and navigating complex political landscapes.

You're a developer / analyst. Your job is to build things that work.

You failed the interview not because you can't do the job (you have been doing it for six months!), but because you couldn't provide examples of "leading strategic change at scale", because that isn't what developers do. You're being judged against a mark scheme designed for a different profession.

When they say your examples lacked "challenge and scale," they don't mean your code wasn't complex. They mean you didn't talk about influencing a Director General or managing a budget of £500k. It's not a reflection of your ability; it's a reflection of a rigid HR structure that doesn't know how to categorise technical talent.

Do NOT be embarrassed. You haven't failed a test of your ability in the slightest. All you've failed is a test of your ability to feed a panel very specific, non-technical buzzwords.

The advice to drop a grade is well meaning but frustrating... but it's not bad advice if you do want to remain within the CS.

You're intelligent, you're capable, you're empathetic and generally a nice person. The Civil Service's inability to interview tech talent properly is their loss, not yours.

Take the weekend. Eat something unhealthy. Play Planet Coaster. Do not let a behaviour framework define your value.
 
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Matt N said:
I was unsuccessful at interview for my job.

I was told that while I structured my answers well, my behaviour examples were too simplistic for the grade and lacked the required challenge and scale. My team lead has recommended I drop a grade when looking for jobs in order to build up a bit more experience before applying to other roles at this grade.

I know I shouldn’t take it personally, but I feel very dejected and like this was almost the worst possible outcome. I feel embarrassed because it’s a job I effectively already do, and I’d almost feel better if I was told that I didn’t structure my answers well enough because that’s something I can easily work on. But the fact that I can’t provide examples with sufficient challenge for the grade of job when I have effectively already done the job for 6 months makes me feel like I’m rubbish at my job and is something I can’t remedy as easily.
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I'm absolutely sorry to hear about the outcome of your interview and hope you're not taking it too hard

The best I can say is that the interview is an experience for you and to take the feedback on board for your next opportunity. It's not necessarily about you as a person or your abilities but how you and the other interviewees present on the day.

The right opportunity for you will be round the corner soon. I'm confident you'll find success in the next few rounds.
 
Thanks for the support, all.

One thing I was told that I think might be easier to work on was that I was slightly too vague on how I ensured data quality, and that I should have gone into more detail about methods such as outlier detection.

But the main advice was that my Working Together and my Delivering at Pace were “too simplistic” for the grade (HEO equivalent). For Working Together, I gave an example of how I gave a colleague technical help over a number of Teams calls during a QA task I was assigned and managed that relationship. I was told that it was “all in the right ballpark”, but that they wanted an example of dealing with “more stakeholders on a grander scale”, For Delivering at Pace, I gave an example of how I managed priorities while developing a feature and then pivoted when a new deadline arose. My team lead told me that they wanted evidence of “prioritising multiple deadlines on multiple tasks on a bigger scale using tools such as Gantt charts or the DevOps board”.

It was certainly very different to any other interview I’ve attended. My colleagues were very straight-faced and reading off a script for most of the interview (even the “bit about the role” at the beginning was scripted), and the questions were of the very hand-wavey “graduate scheme” style.

She said that I structured my answers strongly, was clear and “included that front line impact that’s really rare in interviews”, but that I should apply to lower grade roles to gain more experience and “lift the scale of those examples”. Or to a HEO role in a department with “lower expectations” of its HEOs and/or lower pay scales.

To be fair, she was kind enough to call me to give me my feedback before it was formally released on CS Jobs. Also, she did send me a lower grade role in a different team that she thought I’d be a good fit for, so she does evidently want to help me. I’ve also found a different role in a different department that would seem to fit my profile, doesn’t go by the standard CS pay scales and doesn’t have Behaviours in the job advert, so that might be worth considering!
 
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