[The Smiler] Construction Updates and Ride Speculation

[Dobba]

That's the time you know the theme makes no sense anymore.

Or, just possibly, they are coming up with ideas because the ride isn't open and won't for at least another month?

This is like watching a 45 second movie trailer and judging the plot for the entire movie.

 

[TheMan]

That's the time you know the theme makes no sense anymore.

Or, just possibly, they are coming up with ideas because the ride isn't open and won't for at least another month?

This is like watching a 45 second movie trailer and judging the plot for the entire movie.

Which usually is the best 45 seconds of the movie - regardless of our different views on a subjective aspect such as theme, I am sure this is something we can all agree on

The only thing I will say is the points made about The Smiler being conceived prior to The Sanctuary does make some sense logically. The Sanctuary is the better theme though, and credit must go to the AT team who conceived that, as I'd be far happier if they were in charge of Merlin Studios.

Argue with that fan boys.

 

[electricBlll]

So because you are now essentially bored of the theme, everyone else is?

Hmm did you read my post? I had nothing but praise for X Sector but I'm realistic enough to see that it's coming across as drab, unconvincing and passive. The only reason people enjoy Oblivion is because it's a bloody big rollercoaster that goes underground. or because they are slightly obsessive fanpersons who spend too much time disconnected from reality on the internet!

People convincing themselves the theme is this amazing, cinematic, meaning-of-life experience are deluded; and this is coming from somebody who is fascinated by Oblivion's concept, currently creating an art project based on it, drawn numerous sketches and have been astonished by it year after year since my first visit to Alton Towers a decade ago...

Of course, I wish everybody could engage in the Oblivion theme, for their own enjoyment, rather than not take any notice of the theme at all apart from absent-mindedly asking "won't he shut up?" whenever Renny Krupinski starts talking.Similarly, Nemesis currently looks laughable and fake, Haunted House/Duel stupid and confused, Dark Forest the dullest theme park area known to man and... you get the idea. But people will still enjoy those attractions, including me, just not as much as if they were truly sublime.

Oh and TheMan, you could sum up your entire viewpoint with this one statement:

I cannot stand the ridiculous theme for The Smiler.

Basically you just don't like idea of The Smiler. Fair enough, I don't like the themes of Mutiny Bay, The Swarm, Saw or Air, but I still enjoy the rides. Sometimes you get a theme you don't like: that's nobody's fault. Personally I love The Smiler because I appreciate dark offbeat humour and theatricality, rather than the usual grim "foreboding" imagery, but then I'm weird.

Don't worry... You'll all be smiling when the ride opens! :twirly: :twirly: :twirly:

 

[Dave]

The Lord of Darkness, building The Smiler?

Is there any relevance left with this ride at all?

Well they have already said the MoJ is behind the whole of X-Sector

i'm not doing 50 rounds of who thinks the themes clash, they to me work together and continue the X-Sector story.

You only have to watch the Oblivion queue-line videos to see how much Oblivion takes a tongue in cheek attitude to its theme as well as the references to physiological transformation.

And TheMan "The Smiler" is referred to once in The Sanctuary.... at the top of the stairs. I get you don't like the theme but you are starting to jump down the throat of everyone who disagrees.

Can we keep the debate friendly (and no that does not mean everyone has to agree with each other).

 

[TheMan]

And TheMan "The Smiler" is referred to once in The Sanctuary.... at the top of the stairs. I get you don't like the theme but you are starting to jump down the throat of everyone who disagrees insinuating that they are somehow stupid because they do.

Can we keep the debate friendly.

Sorry Dave I take issue with that, I address people directly who address my points, and in the case of Bill pointed out he is a nice poster etc. The same can be said to the opposite side of this debate and I will not be singled out.

The Smiler is referenced in the pre-show, multiple times in audio through the maze, and with the logos flashing around through the entire end of the maze - this is my point. I don't mind debate, and I am always polite and try to be fair, but please at least if we are going to discuss it, let's be honest.

The entire introduction video is now done with a great SW7 labelled map behind it!

My points are nothing personal and never will be, it's a coaster for goodness sake, but I am getting irate at this being a little too one sided now. I am a fair individual, but it seems if you happen to be someone who critiques you get way too much stick.

I went from avid supporter, to someone not happy subjectively with the theme and tie ins that make no sense. I have now experienced both sides of this fence, and this one is quite considerably more unpleasant.

My last post was a tongue in cheek reference to the "fanboys vs Merlin haters" conversations, and in fact praised the Towers for their great work.

I will keep it polite, you keep it fair. I have never ONCE called anyone stupid!

 

[Sam]

"Quirky" is not a work I have ever associated with X Sector. It belongs in the family areas of the park (where I would have no problem with it), along with "whimsical", "wacky" and "silly".
X Sector, to me, should be along the lines of "serious", "forboding", "sinister", "ominous" or even "Orwellian".

It was serious, foreboding, sinister and ominous. In 1998, when it opened. It's now 2013. Theme parks and theme park areas can't remain static. They can't be stuck in time, they have to evolve. Whereas X-Sector's theme was probably highly original in the paranoid late 90s, it's a bit cliché now (through no fault of its own). The 'sinister government facility' thing has been done to death over the last fifteen years in all sorts of mediums.

That simply means it's time for a change. What shocked in 1998 seems very pedestrian now. The Smiler isn't abandoning that theme, but evolving it, adding a fresh new twist. It's bolstering the theme of X-Sector, not detracting from it. It's the next natural step on from Oblivion and the X-Sector of 1998. It's X-Sector 2.0.

You're right! Out with the old in with the new. And while we're at it, I'm going to paint yellow smiley faces on all the figures in Francis Bacon paintings, re-write all of Shakespeare's tragedy's with happy endings, carve an effigy of Dot Cotton onto the genitals of Michelangelo's David, and rip up Beethoven's original scores to be replaced with dubstep! Blimey, I'm so quirky and unique Towers should hire me!

Did you really just compare X-Sector's theme to Shakespeare, Michelangelo's David and the work of Beethoven?

Oblivion's theming and theme is very good (I wouldn't go so far as calling it a 'masterpiece') but X-Sector's isn't. The entire story (actually, it's not even a story) is 'sinister government facility'. That's it. No detail whatsoever. It's very basic, and ripe for an enhancement.

I agree that Oblivion shouldn't be touched with too much as it's a great theme. X-Sector however, isn't. It seems like a lazy afterthought after Oblivion was thought out, and I don't understand how Sub and Ent even attempt to fit into the theme. Oblivion is fine, but X-Sector is in desperate need of either a replacement or a major enhancement.

 

[Dave]

The Smiler is referenced in the pre-show, multiple times in audio through the maze, and with the logos flashing around through the entire end of the maze - this is my point. I don't mind debate, and I am always polite and try to be fair, but please at least if we are going to discuss it, let's be honest.

Fine lets be honest, the total number of times The Smiler is mentioned verbally in The Sanctuary = once

Total number of times The Smiler is mentioned in the queueline = Never. SW7 = Once

Total number of times Smiler Logo scene = 4 times in finale scene.

Don't believe go ride it again.

Go back 6 months and this forum was constantly criticized for being always negative about the park, i was a huge critic of Merlin (still am) and hated Th13teen, the year of nothing and Sub-Terra v1. I slammed them for their stupid opening times last year and closing Subs and Ents.

However i like The Smiler so far, i don't see the problems you seem to see. People are not disagreeing with you because of blind fanboyism as the people i see disagreeing with you i have seen tear-apart the park in previous seasons. They are disagreeing with you because they disagree with your opinion, you can't then turn around and say that their is an un-fair bias just because your opinion is in the minority.

You have every right to defend that opinion though, but people are also entitled to disagree.

This is however getting off-topic

 

[Ash84]

The Smiler is referenced in the pre-show, multiple times in audio through the maze, and with the logos flashing around through the entire end of the maze - this is my point. I don't mind debate, and I am always polite and try to be fair, but please at least if we are going to discuss it, let's be honest.

Fine lets be honest, the total number of times The Smiler is mentioned verbally in The Sanctuary = once

Total number of times The Smiler is mentioned in the queueline = Never. SW7 = Once

Total number of times Smiler Logo scene = 4 times in finale scene.

Don't believe go ride it again.

Go back 6 months and this forum was constantly criticized for being always negative about the park, i was a huge critic of Merlin (still am) and hated Th13teen, the year of nothing and Sub-Terra v1. I slammed them for their stupid opening times last year and closing Subs and Ents.

However i like The Smiler so far, i don't see the problems you seem to see. People are not disagreeing with you because of blind fanboyism as the people i see disagreeing with you i have seen tear-apart the park in previous seasons. They are disagreeing with you because they disagree with your opinion, you can't then turn around and say that their is an un-fair bias just because your opinion is in the minority.

You have every right to defend that opinion though, but people are also entitled to disagree.

This is however getting off-topic

Anyone who knows me will know I am not an Alton fanboy, (they may call me a lot of things, but that sure as hell wont be one of them!) however, I too am looking forward to the Smiler, I like what I see and for the first time in years, AT dont appear to have gone the wrong way about advertising the ride,.

Ash

 

[TheMan]

I am not going to drag this topic into this debate any further, I have no issue with people liking the theme, I have no issue with the theme or the ride or uniforms etc - in their own context, but that never seems to get mentioned.

My issue is the other things I mentioned plenty of times, that seem to be taken out of context consistently.

I didn't get the criticism for Thirteen by the way - the marketing was ludicrous, but the idea was and still remains fantastic - and it pushed technological boundaries, and actually has a theme that so far seems far more foreboding than The Smiler ever will.

And I am not saying my opinion is what is the issue, I am saying being accused of calling people stupid etc and the grief you get for criticising is out of order because it is. To single just me out, as someone inferring others are stupid, when people supporting the ride have done far worse to those who dare criticise is just wrong Dave.

Read my posts, I have said multiple times that a theme is subjective, and all the reasons I cannot stand it in relation to the story, is exactly the reason others love it, and I believe it is an opportunity missed!

I am not suggesting people shouldn't disagree, no one is right or wrong - I have said that also multiple times now, and that proves my point entirely.

My grievance is not remotely through differences of opinion on a subjective issue like theme! I am saying, being singled out as someone apparently suggesting other people are stupid etc when my posts are no different to many others of opposing opinion is out of order.

I cannot stand this theme link, that I did not invent, but as a ride and theme in it's own right I find it quite brilliant, and theme is subjective therefore some will love it, some will hate it, and the GP will most likely lap it up and not give a monkeys about any links (or not) to The Sanctuary - I may go back and count how many times I have said this now.

 

[CoasterCrazyChris]

Everyone calm down, at the end of the day it's only a theme park and they are just rides!

 

[Dave]

This topic needs to move on really, anything further needs to go thorough PM or guests services.

 

[Ash84]

That may be true, but some people get over-heated over a whole host of things, football being one of them, and the worst thing any football fan can hear when they are in that state is someone saying 'its only a game.'

Its something people invest a great deal of time, effort and money in, its peoples hobbies, and people are entitled to get a little hot under the coller from time to time about it. Th13teen's theme may be great, but the ride.....'all your favourite rollercoasters rolled into one' I think not! Here's hoping the Smiler does what Th13teen didn't!

Ash

 

[TheMan]

Apparently my posts are coming across a bit stressy. Not my intention so apologies.

To clear things up, as I don't like bad feelings in general, when I speak about missed chances I refer to something that has been an interest of mine for many years in terms of psychology etc. We all have differing interests, it is not meant to sound belittling, more like an engineer looking at a ride that had great potential but they felt could have been built better etc.

I wont go into tons of detail on the thread though, I think what really annoyed me was using New Scientist and psychologists (no it wasn't high profile admittedly) to put forward ideas that are standard on any coaster, like they are unique to The Smiler, and didn't actually mention more subtle and powerful techniques they could have used - but seemingly haven't.

This is a major thrill attraction, potentially one of the most thrilling on the planet, I'd like to have seen what appears so far, to be far less gimmick and OTT, for a little more balance of sinister.

Of course, it may have that when it opens - I really hope it does, and much like my concerns for it overshadowing Oblivion track wise were completely displaced upon visiting it, I hope to be able to admit to being wrong again. Nothing, I assure you, will give me greater pleasure than to be wrong about this.

Psychology/Hypnosis, and various other mind trickery are very, very powerful tools used everyday by media, advertising, films etc - for them to wheel out bog standard coaster psychology suggest to me, they haven't explored this potential fully, and instead of really going into deep detail that would have had profound effects on the mind, they have gone for something that pretends to do it instead.

Make sense? Best I can explain it on a forum, hence my belief in an opportunity missed.

That is only based on information we have to hand so far mind you - the weight of direction does suggest this though.

My point basically, is they seem to be making a "make belief" smiler - when in fact, they could of quite feasibly made a REAL one...

Consider that for a moment folks.

 

[Cheese]

It's quite feasible that the ride could feature some pretty serious psychology despite that press release. I can't imagine they'd have ever gone into detail about that sort of thing; for starters Towers are a secretive bunch, and secondly it was designed to appear in non-specialised publications like newspapers. Talk about it in too much depth and a certain number of people are going to switch off and stop reading. Others might assume that they're not going to enjoy or understand the experience. Neither of those are things a marketing person wants to happen when a person lays eyes upon their product for the first time, and in this respect a new roller coaster is just like any other product.

It's equally feasible that the ride could do a Thirteen and prove the press release to be a load of tosh by not featuring any mind trickery whatsoever. If that's the case it'll be very frustrating to think that Towers have pulled the same old psychology guff out of their backsides without realising it in the ride again, and it would indeed be something of a missed opportunity given the clues we're getting to the theme.

If you're wondering why I used the word 'clues', it's because I don't think there's much that we actually know for certain about the theme. We know that the ride is a device that's designed to make people smile, and we know it's run by a strange organisation that tried to achieve the same goal decades before with a hospital-esque facility and failed. We also know that the organisation likes saying things like "join us" and "get corrected", and that black, white and yellow are its favourite colours to paint its property in. But I'd say that's probably about it.

Even when an area of a theme park has a strong backstory, two guests could interpret that theme completely differently. I think everybody will have put together what they know about X-Sector, Oblivion, The Sanctuary and The Smiler and come to their own unique conclusion on how the latter's theme will work. That's perfectly fine; it's natural to speculate about things you're looking forward to experiencing. Right now though I feel there isn't enough evidence for anyone to say with confidence whether this will feel dark, serious, and menacing to queue for, or upbeat, light-hearted and quietly sinister beneath it all.

Out of interest, is anybody else slightly concerned about whether the general public are going to get what's meant to be going on? It's not that I perceive the average theme park guest to be daft (well, sometimes ). It's more that this ride has the potential to be a little bit weird and contain a boatload of unusual concepts. If it does Towers will need to fully explain ideas like marmalisation to guests. As Sub-Terra demonstrated early last season, bemused people are not necessarily satisfied people, and this ride needs very high guest satisfaction right from the day it opens to win over those people that were underwhelmed by Thirteen and Terry.

Ultimately we're none the wiser on both fronts until the damn thing opens. As we get closer to it opening the marketing might give us some big pointers, but even then who's to say how accurately it'll represent the real experience?

 

[Johno]

I think members of the public will quite easily understand the concept of 'OMFG it goes upside down 14 times, makes you wet yourself with fear and there's a huge spider thing trying to do stuff to you'...

Many seem to underestimate how much members of the public will understand.

They get that Oblivion is about 'going into the unknown'. They'll understand how the Smiler is about trying to change you, make you smile and therefore everyone in there is freakish in a kind of 'way too happy' type of way.

 

[Martin]

And many seem to think anyone who isn't an enthusiast is thick and can't understand anything more than "dat ride goz upsyd down lots"...

 

[Plastic Person]

The uniforms look great.

It's Towers returning to proper theming, rather than the ironic 'we're too cool for this' style of the early-2000s. They tried that. It failed.

This is brilliant. Stop moaning.

A very good point.

It was interesting (well, at least at first) to see the debate about whether the slightly more garish theme of The Smiler will impact and ruin Oblivion's theme.

I do think Oblivion's theme is effective in just how deliberately vague it is. It's very of it's time, but arguably, it represented a downturn for Alton over the following years in terms of presentation and marketing. By the time Air opened in 2002, the park was severely lacking in 'magic'. Sure, it might have been cheesy, but the 90s saw Alton represented as a magical, mysterious place. Whereas for much of the noughties, the themes were much more cool and clinical. Themes like Thirteen, Mutiny Bay and hopefully, The Smiler, are much more in line with the slightly offbeat heritage of the park.

 

[aru]

I think the debate on here really does go a bit too far into geek-dom sometimes, with people loosing perspective that this is a roller coaster, it is fun, and it is designed for entertainment. I am all for back-stories and subtlety but when it comes down to it, guests will spend about an hour interacting with a ride, 90% of which will be spent chatting to their mates in a queue line. Most will have no interest in a deep and meaningful story or the theme.

We all know that the best rides in the park sell an idea or very vague theme or atmosphere - that's it. Oblivion and Nemesis never explain themselves to the public, and don't need to as frankly the public are not there to engage their brains, they just want to be scared and have a good time. The Smiler seems to be taking the same route, being visually impressive and immersive without taking itself too seriously. ;D

 

[Sku]

Am I the only one who doesn't even really care about what the uniforms look like? Alton Towers is not Disney and has never really tried to be.

This is a thrill coaster, that goes upside down 14/15 times, and looks completely insane. You could show a photo of the track layout once complete for 30 seconds as a TV spot and millions of people are going to want to ride it. The tight, packed together, intense ride layout is really something to behold. This is something quite unseen before, anywhere really, let alone in the UK. This is not even to mention that there are going to be interactive elements being triggered as the cars go past, creating a huge visual spectacle along with the duelling ride cars roaring in every direction.

Like the theme or not, I think it's pretty difficult to rule out at this point that this is going to be the most Successful Towers coaster since Nemesis.

 

[TheMan]

Like the theme or not, I think it's pretty difficult to rule out at this point that this is going to be the most Successful Towers coaster since Nemesis.

Regardless of the bits I criticise Sku, I agree the public will lap this up, said the same a few times.