[The Smiler] Construction Updates and Ride Speculation

[TheMan]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

I would very happily be proved wrong.

Boy am I with you on that one Kaycee, I will go TheMan Vs Food on humble pie to be wrong about this one!

Second best never used to be good enough for Alton Tower's. It had to be the pinnacle, the absolute showcase of technology/ride/experience. I'd still say SW6 delivered on those technically speaking, if not thrill wise, though if you were not aware of what was going to happen inside that building (as I took some people on this year, who didn't know amazingly), their reaction was fantastic - and it delivered.

They were getting ready to get off the ride inside ;D, why they put the secret element on TV I will never know, different discussion many times done.

I, like you, have been excited by this ride for a while, but as a coaster in it's own right, and not a super secret world first technology beating SW way.

Some are still convinced it will have some super-secret element no one else knows about, I'll be the first to congratulate them with a great big smile on my face if they are correct!

Otherwise, it remains a slightly heavier, longer, Euro-fighter, in a smaller pit than Nemesis.

 

[GaryH]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Why is it a beast of modern technology? What is different about this compared to Speed or SAW? Im not saying you are wrong and not argueing, but unless people know more things than me, its still just a Eurofighter using technology which has been around for a while now...

 

[Muttlee]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Just read through the last few pages of animated discussion , which has drawn me in, and made me want to list some points which I believe are facts (please correct me if any are incorrect). I'm not intending to be argumentative, or taking any sides, just think some of the info we have has slipped out of out memories! Apologies if this is garbled or in a strange order, it's just as it comes into my head!

One of the reoccurring themes compares the SW7 construction to the likes of Nemesis and Oblivion, and how they had such a long development. We believe that this is the case of the alternative original SW7, which is why we are currently getting a completely unexpected development... a Gerst on the Black Hole site. I don't think we should forget or underestimate how little pre-planning was done for this development. We suspect that the plans were rushed through, therefore we could presume Gerst were only commissioned to build the ride around the same time (possibly this was a design idea before hand) or just before we saw the plans. This will have a knock on throughout the development.

We know that the X Sector was planned to be closed in effect apart from Oblivion for most of the season, a decision that was overturned possibly due to public resistance. It is possible that more preparation and landscaping could have happened earlier in the season if this had been the case.

Although the weather hasn't been bad in terms of frost, it is the wettest winter since 2000, which is very problematic for landscaping and groundworks (as was seen by the big flooding issues in the pit).

We don't know to what extent permission has been given to work in excess of the original planning working hours. This may be why the Gerst staff have been away over the Christmas break. I'm sure if it would have been a big issue, staff would have been made available over the holidays. This is a high profile project for Gerst, I'm sure they could have arranged staffing if needed.

Also of interest is that I believe this is the first project to come completely out of Gersts' new manufacturing plant.

Just a few thoughts! Mu personal opinion is I think we will have a great coaster, that will open when it is ready, hopefully at the start of the season.

 

[Rob]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

At the end of the day, whatever it does or doesn't have, this is evidently going to be a solid thrill coaster featuring inversions, something that Towers badly need. There hasn't been a thrill coaster with inversions since Nemesis (I don't count Air as you don't actually go upside down) and I along with many others have been saying Towers need more inversions. I don't think there will be anything which can be seen as a huge technological advance, in terms of the coaster anyway. But it doesn't need this as chances are it could have turned out just to be a gimmick.

 

[GaryH]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Totally agree Rob - I think some people are making this coaster out to be something its not and your comment there hits the nail on the head. (ps. what about the last twist on Air when you do go upside down?!!!)

 

[Rob]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Totally agree Rob - I think some people are making this coaster out to be something its not and your comment there hits the nail on the head. (ps. what about the last twist on Air when you do go upside down?!!!)

You're on your back, not feet over head! It is definitely an inversion, I personally just don't count it as upside down inverting!

 

[TheMan]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Muttlee - Post 1? Very intriguing indeed!

I was not browsing the forums particularly this year, I was not aware this was an alternative SW7 until I was made aware of the rumours an hour or so ago. Be interesting to note, how accurate this is, and what kind of timescale that Gerst were given to come up with something even close to being worthy of the SW tag.

If this is true, and they had next to no time to get this planned from scratch, I'd be interested to know exactly why this occurred, and would go a long way to explaining the seeming lack of any real organisation or plan behind this project.

It may well be, that in fact Gerst are really going out on one, to get Alton Tower's out of a hole, (excuse the pun ;D) - in which case, I can do nothing but applaud them and wish them the absolute best of luck in getting it finished!

 

[Dave]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

My opinions

1) SW7 will be a great thrill coaster (if it doesn't have Gerstache)
2) It doesn't need a trick track or odd trains to do this and be a bit special
3) It's probably got an interesting back-story (something most always wanted)
4) It's probably running late but they wont open it half done (which is the best option)
5) The marketing will be focused and timely (something most always wanted)
6) It's got a theme that looks to be thought out (something i felt Th13teen lacks)

If its late i don't really care, there will be a good reason as people don't just mess around with 18 million pound projects.

 

[Rob]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Muttlee - Post 1? Very intriguing indeed!

I was not browsing the forums particularly this year, I was not aware this was an alternative SW7 until I was made aware of the rumours an hour or so ago. Be interesting to note, how accurate this is, and what kind of timescale that Gerst were given to come up with something even close to being worthy of the SW tag.

If this is true, and they had next to no time to get this planned from scratch, I'd be interested to know exactly why this occurred, and would go a long way to explaining the seeming lack of any real organisation or plan behind this project.

It may well be, that in fact Gerst are really going out on one, to get Alton Tower's out of a hole, (excuse the pun ;D) - in which case, I can do nothing but applaud them and wish them the absolute best of luck in getting it finished!

SW7 was almost certainly initially going to be on the Air car park. There is a very high chance it was going to be a B&M 4D but for whatever reasons this obviously hasn't happened, probably down to either the concept not being finished or it being too expensive. I was told by a former director at the end of the 2010 season that there was an 80% chance of SW7 being a B&M. Clearly plans changed late on. It also explains why the SW7 plans were initially submitted without any detailed drawings of the station or the theming, they had yet to be finished. So clearly it was all done very late on.

I and many others expect the initial plan for SW7 to become SW8.

 

[Benzin]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Why is it a beast of modern technology? What is different about this compared to Speed or SAW? Im not saying you are wrong and not argueing, but unless people know more things than me, its still just a Eurofighter using technology which has been around for a while now...

It's a beast of modern technology because it's a massive roller coaster... ALL rides in fact are beasts of modern technology in any sense, due to the sheer usages of several engineering disciplines... It's just the industry...

But does that make it any less of a technological experience? No. Does it having potentially 'older' technology do that? No. If Oblivion is allowed to be due to new cars, then so is this... It's just an engineering marvel like all rides, it doesn't have to do anything special to be, as they all are great feats of engineering, from the Wild Mouse to Kingda Ka...


I heard that this was gonna be a B&M as well, just not going in the Air Car Park... Plans change, new designs are implemented, problems arise, solutions created, sometimes affecting the time frame... That's engineering, and I've experienced enough of that getting my Engineering degree to know that these companies will experience them as well...

 

[BigT]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Muttlee - Post 1? Very intriguing indeed!

I was not browsing the forums particularly this year, I was not aware this was an alternative SW7 until I was made aware of the rumours an hour or so ago. Be interesting to note, how accurate this is, and what kind of timescale that Gerst were given to come up with something even close to being worthy of the SW tag.

If this is true, and they had next to no time to get this planned from scratch, I'd be interested to know exactly why this occurred, and would go a long way to explaining the seeming lack of any real organisation or plan behind this project.

It may well be, that in fact Gerst are really going out on one, to get Alton Tower's out of a hole, (excuse the pun ;D) - in which case, I can do nothing but applaud them and wish them the absolute best of luck in getting it finished!

SW7 was almost certainly initially going to be on the Air car park. There is a very high chance it was going to be a B&M 4D but for whatever reasons this obviously hasn't happened, probably down to either the concept not being finished or it being too expensive. I was told by a former director at the end of the 2010 season that there was an 80% chance of SW7 being a B&M. Clearly plans changed late on. It also explains why the SW7 plans were initially submitted without any detailed drawings of the station or the theming, they had yet to be finished. So clearly it was all done very late on.

I and many others expect the initial plan for SW7 to become SW8.

I'm unsure how you would get a 4D coaster under the height restriction, it's just not going to happen.

 

[Rob]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

I have no idea! I'm not sure if the 4D part was a rumour or an assumption to be fair. But we know for a fact the John Wardley is/has been working with B&M on multiple new concepts (he confirmed this once again in an interview with someone over on TTF) so I would imagine it would be one of these concepts. And 4D would seem the most likely after the wing coaster. Also with it being a new concept 4D it may no require such a great height, although I have no idea when it comes to engineering. Another rumour I initially heard for SW7 was a B&M with a launch possibly done by Intamin, with the launch being from where Blade is. How true that was I don't know.

 

[BigT]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

In my opinion B&M's are overpriced piles of poop, so I'm glad they didn't go for that and I hope they don't in future.

 

[BigDave]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

That's funny as B&M are regarded in the themepark industry as being one of if not the best out there!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[CupCakeMonster]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

In my opinion B&M's are overpriced piles of poop, so I'm glad they didn't go for that and I hope they don't in future.

I agree that they're expensive... But not necessarily bad.. I do think that there are some better concepts than B&M Ones though. And (yes I'm preparing for another DISCUSSION .. as it is inevitable) I do think they're on par with Intamin.. I don't think either one is better than the other.

I wouldn't expect a B&M soon to be honest. We're extremely lucky as it is to have 3!! Most parks don't even have one! Just because JW is working with them, doesn't mean it's for Alton. He just gets along well with Mr B and Mr M.. So why shouldn't they use his creative mind??

 

[TheMan]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Alton Tower's best work has been done under intense pressure.

I genuinely believe this will be a gem of a coaster, no matter what my opinions are in terms of it's size/etc as I debated above. I've never said anything but that in fairness. I'm also quite glad it isn't a B&M, as they are stale right now - I really enjoy The Swarm, but would I want that at Alton Towers? Not a chance! That's the last thing they need.

Obviously as a coaster lover, I want this to be a fantastic machine - but if Gerst have indeed stepped up in the wake of B&M backing out, then they deserve great credit should they pull this off as an install worthy of the UKs flagship theme park.

 

[Dar]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

I wouldn't expect a B&M soon to be honest. We're extremely lucky as it is to have 3!! Most parks don't even have one! Just because JW is working with them, doesn't mean it's for Alton. He just gets along well with Mr B and Mr M.. So why shouldn't they use his creative mind??

Because he's contracted to Merlin?

B&M do what they do, and they do it very well. They aren't renowned for going too far outside the box though.

So, SW7, lifthill track...is it there or are they still expecting some track delivery?

 

[GaryH]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Is JW having any input with regards SW7 ?

 

[Rob]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

So, SW7, lifthill track...is it there or are they still expecting some track delivery?

If it's there then it's not being stored with the rest of the track, or in any public areas. And I can't imagine they have enough space to store that amount of track backstage. I personally don't think it has been delivered yet, and don't think it will be until a few days before it is required.

 

[BigT]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

That's funny as B&M are regarded in the themepark industry as being one of if not the best out there!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

By whom exactly, fanboys maybe but in the industry? Look I'll give you that they are well made but they are generally too slow, too noisey and not exiciting enough.
I like to get the feeling I'm about to die when I ride a rollercoaster but maybe that's just me!