[The Smiler] Construction Updates and Ride Speculation

[Dar]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

*attempts to steer topic back*

I can't remember if it was here or CF I saw it, and I can't be bothered to search through the topic!

For something with two lift-hills, where are the lift sections of track? All we've seen so far apart from the brake sections are twisty and kinky bits of track!

 

[CupCakeMonster]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

There was some grey structural work, that could potentially be lift hill. I personally think it's for the station, but it could be for the lift.

 

[Dar]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

True, but I was referring to the actual pieces of track. We haven't seen any other straight pieces yet!

 

[Ian]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Who's to say something hasn't arrisen with the locals or the council?.. Anyone heard anything from Farley's favourite couple recently?..

But, surely then Towers wouldn't have let Gerst have so long at home?

Assuming Gerst really have gone home (And if they have someone might want to tell them they've left their Audi behind ) then it would make more financial sense to do so if Towers know there is a long term delay. All the time the Gerst staff are over here it's costing Alton. Their accommodation, their wages, their meals. Some of that will be payed for via Gerstlauer, but it's still money. If Alton know the project is going to be delayed by X days/weeks/months, then they may well say "go home and come back for X date.". It'd make more sense financially.

Also, I doubt Alton plan Gerstlauer staff's holidays If the staff have been promised say two weeks at home over Christmas I doubt Alton is in any position to tell them they can't have it.

 

[CupCakeMonster]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Assuming Gerst really have gone home (And if they have someone might want to tell them they've left their Audi behind ) then it would make more financial sense to do so if Towers know there is a long term delay. All the time the Gerst staff are over here it's costing Alton. Their accommodation, their wages, their meals. Some of that will be payed for via Gerstlauer, but it's still money. If Alton know the project is going to be delayed by X days/weeks/months, then they may well say "go home and come back for X date.". It'd make more sense financially.

Also, I doubt Alton plan Gerstlauer staff's holidays If the staff have been promised say two weeks at home over Christmas I doubt Alton is in any position to tell them they can't have it.

Sorry, my mistake, I didn't really explain. I meant if there had been a local problem which had then been sorted, not one which is still ongoing. I meant that they would want the Gerst staff back as soon as possible once it was sorted.
I would have thought that they would have a say in it, Alton are the ones after all who are paying them.

 

[Prometheus]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

I'm actually really anxious to see the lift hill track, I've had a crazy theory in my head for a while now that we might see a Maverick Style lift. Yeah daft I know.

(My only theory for using LSM by the way would be quieter operation to avoid Roper complaints but it doesn't really stack up ha!). :

 

[Spike]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

 

[Sammy]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

I have been wanting to post that all day! But thought I would leave it for somebody else, I could have guessed it would be you who eventually popped up with it too

 

[Spike]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Well, you know me. 8)

*realises I've just posted two pictures without any real discussionary words & posts so as not to anger the Gods Mods*

Erm.... I think that what all of you are discussing in a vigorous fashion is needed to help pave the way for discussions of the future and don't forget - the children are OUR future and SW7 means a great deal to us and stuff so we must learn to love one-another and say our views with gusto and opulent delivery. ;D

GMod edit - Veiled swearing removed.

 

[Dave]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

*glares at Spike*



We do need to shift back on-to topic though, it's been a heated debate that has been reminiscent of how Th13teens pre-opening topics used to be and has mostly been well mannered but people need to remember it's at the end of the day just a roller coaster and things should stay civil.

 

[JoshC.]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

This is a bit off topic, but SW7 related and light hearted (well, it gave me a giggle), so I'll post it here:

This was recently posted by Lightwater Valley on Twitter: "A few laps on The Ultimate is usually sufficient! #GetCorrected"

Cheeky use of that hashtag there to perhaps get people following the 'getcorrected' hashtag to look at other theme parks?

 

[Ian]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Assuming Gerst really have gone home (And if they have someone might want to tell them they've left their Audi behind ) then it would make more financial sense to do so if Towers know there is a long term delay. All the time the Gerst staff are over here it's costing Alton. Their accommodation, their wages, their meals. Some of that will be payed for via Gerstlauer, but it's still money. If Alton know the project is going to be delayed by X days/weeks/months, then they may well say "go home and come back for X date.". It'd make more sense financially.

Also, I doubt Alton plan Gerstlauer staff's holidays If the staff have been promised say two weeks at home over Christmas I doubt Alton is in any position to tell them they can't have it.

Sorry, my mistake, I didn't really explain. I meant if there had been a local problem which had then been sorted, not one which is still ongoing. I meant that they would want the Gerst staff back as soon as possible once it was sorted.
I would have thought that they would have a say in it, Alton are the ones after all who are paying them.

Yes, but even so as I said at the end of my post Gerstlauer are the ones who will decide when their staff work, and what holidays they get. I should think that these kind of things are arranged right at the start of the project. If it's Alton or someone else's fault the ride is delayed is should think Gerst are entitled to do as they planned, given it's not their fault it's running late.

Think of it from their staff's point of view. I for one wouldn't be happy if head office rang me a week before I go home to my family in Germany for Christmas and get told that I can't do it any more as someone else has mucked up the project. The staff have probably already been here for at least a month or so. They're probably glad of the break

 

[Tim]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

I'm afraid I got board of reading the last few half-dozen pages of discussion. As John has already pointed out there's so much we still don't know about SW7 that trying to compare it to the other major investments is futile, from a complexity point at any rate.

What we can debate over is why this project is so far behind where we expect it to be. Now before I get bombard with messages claiming it isn't behind schedule I thought it was about time I went back to the archives to compare SW7's construction to several other rides. I've chosen to post what I found for Saw (because it should be similar to SW7) and Th13teen (as the last SW).

---

Important date log: Saw the ride
Information obtained from Thorpe Park Mania's Saw Mini-site

9th October 2008 < relative time 3 months ago
Track Completion.

3rd November 2008
Station framework complete.

12th December 2008
First known image of the head chopper saw blades in place.

23rd December 2008
First known images of the themed station including the construction of the queue line.

9th January 2009 < relative time present day
First appearance of the ride vehicles.

24th January 2009
Full ride testing. This means that a clearance draw-through must have taken place several weeks before.

---

Important date log: Th13teen
Information obtained from Towers Nerd Mini-site

Less is recorded about Th13teen as access to the park was limited (and TT have taken down the most detailed Mini-site) but from what is available:

10th October 2009 < relative time 3 months ago
Track assembly began on-site.

9th November 2009 < relative time 2 months ago
Secret Weapon arrived on-site. If my memory serves me correct all other track pieces had been assembled by this point.

1st February 2010
First picture of the trains. However unlike the first appearance of Saw's trains these were shown on the track which suggests the basic testing had already occurred.

---

If you wish me to go further back and compare other project timelines I will do so but I can tell you now they are all roughly the same.
SW5Live is a good site to see Air's construction

So baring this in mind I’d say SW7 is fairly significantly behind where it should be. Of course I have no way of knowing what the official schedule is but given that both of the examples I've given were testing through most of January and February in order to open in March you can appreciate why there is a lot of concern that SW7 hasn’t even been built yet.

As for why SW7 is behind the others I’m going to have a guess at the weather. 2012 started off as one of the driest seasons on record but very quickly developed into one of the wettest. That amount of rain water would (as we saw) have delayed the excavation process. This wouldn’t have been such a problem but the rain was pretty relentless. If I remember correctly the 4 Olympic and Paralympic weeks were the only ones this year to be rain free.
Added to the bad weather was the long delay between the planning permission being approved and the start of construction work. I still can’t work out why they didn’t start removing the Black Hole Tent as soon as permission was granted but I’m sure they had their reasons.

 

[Moley]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Right, the ride is delayed considerably. Now if someone can come up with a hilarious shipping container related joke we can call this topic done.

 

[Kaycee]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Think TheMan is talking perfect sense! Oblivion and Air were notable technological leaps in their time (don't forget Oblivion's double-dispatch system - for 1998 - it certainly is more than a drop into a tunnel for goodness' sake, they built that thing on Windows '95!) They both shook up the UK - and worldwide - coaster industry. SW7 I personally don't think is going to be on that level.

 

[Tom]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Incorporating a freefall drop into a rollercoaster was more pioneering than anything before it. The same could be true of this ride, given that we do not know anything of the secretive pioneering feature.

Track erection can still take place rapidly, but the incorporation of the feature and the indoor section could be what causes any delay.

 

[Kaycee]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

I just would have thought people would be exercising more caution before subscribing to all the marketing before we really know that much about it... have we already forgotten Th13teen?

I'm excited for this coaster, don't get me wrong! Just unfortunately exercising a little cynicism in regards to it being the next Oblivion or Air in terms of ground-breaking technology.

I would very happily be proved wrong.

 

[BigT]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Speaking from experience of large installations I can tell you Alton won't be paying for the Gert staff, the installation will be in the costing for the job so it makes no difference to Alton if they are there for one week or one year cost wise.

Also they would have gone home for Christmas and will proberbly be back next week, just because their car is still there means sod all, they would have got a taxi to the airport.(look up the cost of airport car parking)
Nothing or very little would have been done track wise whilst they were not here either.

 

[Spike]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

Eurgh I got sucked in!

I would like to point out something in this video. Although it's not nearly as bigger job as SW7 but this time laps shows just how quickly a coaster can go up. 50secs is foundations & land, 10secs is track & station.

Log Flume to Infusion

It has been delayed, yes, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out why? I remember taking the first shots of Infusion track on a car park on my lunch break, that was literally a few months before opening.

The time consuming foundations look to be in place and if anyone knew ANYTHING about concrete pouring & excavation of land you'd know that it requires near perfect weather. Something we have not had these past few months.

Laying the track is the easy part, it's just a big jigsaw puzzle. The foundations & land work is what has caused the delay vs the weather.

I know people like to blame Alton at even given opportunity but give them a break! they are not in control of Mother Nature. At least they haven't left it until a week before opening to move the opening date.

For those who were there TT@10 will have heard from one of the big-wigs stating they rushed the opening of so many rides and it ended up with them half finished. They said they wouldn't do it any more and would choose to wait until the ride was fully up to standards which is what you want.

If SW7 opens half finished it will be given just the reception as Th13teen & Terry. Do you actually want that? A half-arsed experience not fully completed that they work to finish throughout the year?

So I say it again! Give.Them.A.Break!!!

 

[Benzin]

Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued

I'm actually really anxious to see the lift hill track, I've had a crazy theory in my head for a while now that we might see a Maverick Style lift. Yeah daft I know.

(My only theory for using LSM by the way would be quieter operation to avoid Roper complaints but it doesn't really stack up ha!). :

Tbh, that's not too bad a shout personally, Gerstlauer have a rather decent system for rolling launches already, and judging by a picture I saw of the pit, the indoor section will probs end up being a left hand dive into an inline before heading outside... Doing so via a angled launch lift hill would be a rather decent opening to the ride... No need for washing machines or the like...

Why do I get the feeling the indoor section will be speculated to the same levels of Thirteen?

From what I've heard along the grapevine, the delay was something unexpected from the park and construction, hence they've been actually unable to construct everything until they remedy that situation... Whether or not that causes the delay to go past March, we can only wait and see...


As for this being a large project... It's a ride, OF COURSE IT'S A LARGE PROJECT... Regardless of comparisons to rides that were built years ago, every ride is different and takes advantage of the technology available... By some of the reasoning here, Scenic Railways around the world are the greatest technological marvel we'll ever see because they provided things never seen before on NO computers...

Why must it be compared to previous SW's anyways? Does it matter what level of 'technology' the ride has in comparison to something built 15 years ago? Rides have kind of reached a peak of technology, as seen by the end of the height and speed race that the previous decade saw... Does it matter if this uses new untested technology? Not really, it just needs to be a good ride and fill a gap in the park's list, and considering it's an inverting beast of messed up track, I think it'll fit in rather well...

Secret feature or not, this is still a beast of modern technology... It actually made my head hurt some of the posts in here... Just because Air features a lot of stuff for the Flying position (something Vekoma did as well in a different manner let's no forget at a similar time), doesn't mean that SW7 isn't a big project... Because it is, but in it's own little way...

Just... Urgh... Reminds me why I hate slow construction topics...