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[The Smiler] Spoiler Discussion

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Burn.e said:
ChocolateStarfish said:
I think they have ruined the surprise again the same as they did with th13teen by releasing a half cock video with the lights on!!!!!
As I've said before these marketing people are morons.

But, there's no surprise? Eurofighter indoor barrel rolls are about as old hat as you can get. It's not exactly a marketable 'secret' for the general public either.

Frankly, I'm a bit confused as to why there's a spoiler topic. What is there to spoil?

Barrel rolls maybe old hat but effects that go with them arn't.
Look at that gmtv preview of th13teen with the lights on, its would be pants to ride th13teen like that so they use effects and darkness to create what I think is actually quite a good element.
Terry is an ABC drop tower, again nothing special but look at what can be done with effects.
This could be a very good element once the lights are out and effects are switched on but I still think it has been undermined by these muppets.
 
Burn.e said:
ChocolateStarfish said:
I think they have ruined the surprise again the same as they did with th13teen by releasing a half cock video with the lights on!!!!!
As I've said before these marketing people are morons.

But, there's no surprise? Eurofighter indoor barrel rolls are about as old hat as you can get. It's not exactly a marketable 'secret' for the general public either.

Frankly, I'm a bit confused as to why there's a spoiler topic. What is there to spoil?

I was thinking the same when the change was first made. We know everything that's happening on the outside and on the inside of the Smiler now. What's in the game is more or less what we're getting (minus a yellow toilet roof and the better Smiler entrance :/ ).
 
ChocolateStarfish said:
Burn.e said:
ChocolateStarfish said:
I think they have ruined the surprise again the same as they did with th13teen by releasing a half cock video with the lights on!!!!!
As I've said before these marketing people are morons.

But, there's no surprise? Eurofighter indoor barrel rolls are about as old hat as you can get. It's not exactly a marketable 'secret' for the general public either.

Frankly, I'm a bit confused as to why there's a spoiler topic. What is there to spoil?

Barrel rolls maybe old hat but effects that go with them arn't.
Look at that gmtv preview of th13teen with the lights on, its would be pants to ride th13teen like that so they use effects and darkness to create what I think is actually quite a good element.
Terry is an ABC drop tower, again nothing special but look at what can be done with effects.
This could be a very good element once the lights are out and effects are switched on but I still think it has been undermined by these muppets.

It's a few strobes. Strobes and an indoor inversion does not a 'secret element' make, and it'd be incredibly stupid of them to pass it off as one by being all hyperbolic and hush hush.
 
As Mr Wardley says you will have to ride it to find out.
And that's the point, because of these muppets you have people assuming that's all that's going to happen.
Trust me it isn't, when you ride it next week the indoor section will not be like that.
 
NF2 said:
I'm sure were going to see all the blipverts and TV ads as well, but PR is an effective and comparatively cheap form of promotion.

I'm sure most of you will have seen this, but I'll highlight this video here from the PR agency that dealt with Nemmy's opening, this technique is nothing new.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NuJJXbe5MGY

That's an amazing video. I had no idea that Nemesis got quite that amount of coverage. I doubt that any ride built today could cause that kind of media stir.

I also find it ironic that the footage of Nemesis in 1994 is of a much higher quality than the footage of The Smiler from the 2013 reports, particularly the POV.

Is it me or has the art of filming rollercoasters been lost? There used to be an emphasis on quick cuts and stationary shots of the train passing close to the camera. This had the effect of making the coaster look very fast and exciting. It wouldn't necessarily show you the layout but it made the coaster look good which is far more important for a report like this.

These days, with the advent of Youtube there's a tendency for the camera to just follow the train in a continuous shot which completely kills the sense of speed. Also, the quality of the POVs is atrocious considering they're supposed to be for a professional news agency. They used to have proper camera mounts for these sort of promotional segments. Now it seems that a shaky GoPro bolted to the railing or on someone's head is acceptable.
 
Burn.e said:
Frankly, I'm a bit confused as to why there's a spoiler topic. What is there to spoil?

My thoughts exactly. It's a roller coaster. Not the final episode of Docter Who. I could understand if this were a dark ride, but it isn't. We know what it is going to do and have done or several months now.
 
ChocolateStarfish said:
As Mr Wardley says you will have to ride it to find out.
And that's the point, because of these muppets you have people assuming that's all that's going to happen.
Trust me it isn't, when you ride it next week the indoor section will not be like that.

Even if there are more 'effects' in that restricted, already themed tunnel (which there won't be), the fact remains - we knew there was an inversion in there. How is showing said inversion, lit, 'spoiling' anything?

The only thing being spoiled is realistic expectations.
 
It's spoiling it in the same way Thirteen was spoiled. We all knew it would drop, we all knew this has a barrel roll.

And anyway, it's spoilt if for 99% of guests, who didn't know.

Just like Thirteen and Sub-Terra, it's not the end of the world, but it's nicer when the first time you see it is when it's all working properly.

Also, I'm surprised no one has mentioned the lift speed. Surely they'll get faster on the finished ride? They seem to be crawling at the minute.
 
I fail to see how anything is being spoiled. The ride has very little 'secret' about it now, if anything the most exciting thing that we'll find out on opening day is just being there, with the effects working, music on and those indoor queueline sections.

As much as the POV's are a cheap way of doing things (and they're bad quality, too) - at the end of the day, Alton want radio stations etc. to come and visit, and if they want to film - so be it!

I am looking forward to genuine high quality video about the ride though, because as yet - there has been very little and it is frustrating.

As much as I don't want to throw the EP card, this was the first video EP published of Wodan, their new GCI wooden coaster last year, and the difference to what AT have been releasing is astounding...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VQYBmAleGM#ws

When I first saw that video, it sent shivers down my spine. The Alton stuff is just cheap and shaky :(
 
There is no denying that the EP video is good (and some of the POV's we've had are dire), but AT did do something similar with lots of lights and dramatic music too. :)
 
AstroDan said:
I fail to see how anything is being spoiled. The ride has very little 'secret' about it now, if anything the most exciting thing that we'll find out on opening day is just being there, with the effects working, music on and those indoor queueline sections.

As much as the POV's are a cheap way of doing things (and they're bad quality, too) - at the end of the day, Alton want radio stations etc. to come and visit, and if they want to film - so be it!

I am looking forward to genuine high quality video about the ride though, because as yet - there has been very little and it is frustrating.

As much as I don't want to throw the EP card, this was the first video EP published of Wodan, their new GCI wooden coaster last year, and the difference to what AT have been releasing is astounding...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VQYBmAleGM#ws

When I first saw that video, it sent shivers down my spine. The Alton stuff is just cheap and shaky :(

That video undoubtedly has much higher production values and the build up to the point where the coaster starts testing is actually pretty epic. The POV is also of a very high quality. However, I still don't think that the offride shots make Wodan seem as exciting as they could. The camera gets nowhere near the train and there's hardly any variation in the shots other than onride/offride.

But my main criticism wasn't necessarily with Alton or Europa but with the broadcasters.

There's a shot that you see all of the time in older videos where the camera tracks an approaching train and then stops as the train passes. The change in speed makes the train appear to be absolutely flying round the course. You can see it used a lot in the video posted earlier but you don't seem to see it used so much any more.

Also, maybe not so applicable to testing but slow-mo footage of the riders' reactions used to feature in Alton press videos a lot.

Both of these techniques put emphasis on the drama and spectacle of the ride rather than just saying "this is what it looks like, this is the layout".

Overall, it seems to me that back in the day, ride reporting was a much more professional operation with a camera crew who had the right equipment and who knew how to make the ride look good. These days, it's a couple of people with a handy cam who get some shots and go home.

Although one thing that I've never understood is why they often send journalists that don't like rollercoasters. It might be funny to see their reactions on the ride but it doesn't really sell the ride very effectively if they clearly hate every second of it. You wouldn't send someone who doesn't watch films to a premier.
 
AstroDan said:
As much as I don't want to throw the EP card, this was the first video EP published of Wodan, their new GCI wooden coaster last year, and the difference to what AT have been releasing is astounding...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VQYBmAleGM#ws

When I first saw that video, it sent shivers down my spine. The Alton stuff is just cheap and shaky :(

I too felt the shivers ;D.

The viking theme is well explored and is easy to give a LOTR style epic feel to it. AT have gone into fresh territory which does unfortunately mean that it's quite hard to communicate to a lay audience.

The biggest weakness of the campaign so far is a confused mix of a videos that have been either boring, poor quality or both. I would have cut the awful acting and abuse of after effects in favour of a single spine-tinglingly awesome video.

As for spoilers, I agree, pretty much nothing to spoil... IMO they really shouldn't have built up the 'secret' that much because there simply wasn't one.
 
Burn.e said:
ChocolateStarfish said:
As Mr Wardley says you will have to ride it to find out.
And that's the point, because of these muppets you have people assuming that's all that's going to happen.
Trust me it isn't, when you ride it next week the indoor section will not be like that.

Even if there are more 'effects' in that restricted, already themed tunnel (which there won't be), the fact remains - we knew there was an inversion in there. How is showing said inversion, lit, 'spoiling' anything?

The only thing being spoiled is realistic expectations.

The only part of the tunnel themed is the last bit the rest of it is plain for a reason.
I have known there was only a barrel roll in there from middle of last year so don't give me a lecture on expectations.
There was no need for the lights to be on its just stupid marketing people with silly ideas, ohh we have to show all 14 loop de loops, no no you don't.

As for we all know what happens, no you don't, there is one secret left.
I'm not telling either, you will find out next week unless some marketing idiot lets that out as well.
 
I think that video that Dan posted says a lot about the differences between Alton Towers and Europa Park at the moment. Towers' first video showing testing was filmed on a mobile phone by a member of staff and had themed music added to it. EP's first video was professionally made showing multiple angles and the video built up all the time. You could argue that the video Towers did with The Smiler at night along with all the lights was a more exciting and dramatic video, however the quality was for some reason very poor.

I think a lot of it comes down to budget, and what can be done with the money there is.

:)
 
The video that Alton Towers' did with the lights etc. was a fantastic idea, but again - they could have built up to it showing a train hurtling round.

It just doesn't seem as professional... I know that any form of video can show the ride off, but it's all about pride and passion and selling the product. Alton tend to lack that showbiz side - when really, they shouldn't - because they are entertainers putting on a show.

Maybe, yet again, it's more of a European thing, I do not know.

I am sure the television advert will, however, put European parks to shame - that is something Alton Towers have nearly always got right!

:)
 
Unfortunately it just highlights again that Alton Towers is not really in the same league as many European parks like Europa
 
Blaze said:
It's spoiling it in the same way Thirteen was spoiled. We all knew it would drop, we all knew this has a barrel roll.

And anyway, it's spoilt if for 99% of guests, who didn't know.

Exactly!

Some people seem to think when I commented about Spoilers it was on behalf of us lot - it wasn't. It is those who happen upon the site, the public, those who don't actually know there is a barrel roll inside!

There are more people on this planet than coaster enthusiasts. I have deliberately not posted about it other than generically on any of my social media for this exact purpose.

Like it or not, this site has become a place for people to lurk and visit, and I know a few people on here trying to avoid POVs etc. Not everyone has looked at what it does inside! I still have managed to avoid it.

I want the station, the indoor section, the POV to be a surprise.

Also:

ChocolateStarfish said:
As for we all know what happens, no you don't, there is one secret left.
I'm not telling either, you will find out next week unless some marketing idiot lets that out as well.

Whilst I will confess to not being disappointed if there is nothing. There is way too much information (that REMAINS to be corrected if wrong) suggesting exactly this.

I firmly believe there is something else left. What is more I have no reason at all to doubt the assertions of Choccy.

I repeat I will NOT be disappointed, but I will be very surprised, if this ride does not have another trick up it's sleeve
 
Just as a point:

This thread was created so that people posting and guests visiting the site to view construction updates or discuss the ride generally could do so without any discussion of the inside or of elements of POVs being discussed too. It's equally here in advance so that when the ride opens, we have somewhere for people to discuss ride experiences and their thoughts without making the discussion thread a no go for those who don't wish to see spoilers.

Just keeps peoples options open really :)
 
Scott said:
Just as a point:

This thread was created so that people posting and guests visiting the site to view construction updates or discuss the ride generally could do so without any discussion of the inside or of elements of POVs being discussed too. It's equally here in advance so that when the ride opens, we have somewhere for people to discuss ride experiences and their thoughts without making the discussion thread a no go for those who don't wish to see spoilers.

Just keeps peoples options open really :)

I think the point some people are making though is due to the fact that it's not like Thirteen where's there technically a spoiler...this is just a rollercoaster that you can see basically everything about from just the photos. There's not actually much of a 'big reveal' so even reports of 'ride experiences' will just basically be saying how good/bad it was.
 
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