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Thorpe Park: General Discussion

Merlin don't theme everything in a dark, run down way. Look at their family additions. Nothing not thrill related has had a dark theme. Clearly, dark themes suit British thrill rides. Obviously why Thorpe is just filled with depression.

My point is, that it's unfair to say Tussaud's did a better job, seeing as all their thrill additions were dark/run down in some way.

I know you go to a theme park for fun/escapism, but if the average thrill seeker gets excitement from close calls with death etc, then the ride will mimic those needs.

I expect it is cheaper to maintain, but that won't be the sole reason behind the theming choice.

Air isn't dark or run down...

Difference is that Tussauds (pre-2000s mostly) would ensure upkeep on the attractions... There's a big difference between a ride looking run down for effect (Tower of Terror) or looking unkempt and generally awful... This is what Merlin don't seem to realise, that making a ride look run down is sometimes better through subtlety, rather than the in-you-face variants of say Swarm (and also having a designer without such a hatred of fire exits to create a poor station)...

As for Smiler, the concrete mess is a disappointment, but we can blame the groundwork people for that, as their research into the ground type was wrong... I would guess that if they had known about the groundwork issues they would've encountered prior to construction, they would've worked around the issue better than the rushed version we ended up with...

As mentioned elsewhere, thrill rides don't need to be dark to be thrilling... Silver Star has a racing theme and that doesn't detract from the thrill levels...
 
Silver Star has a racing theme and that doesn't detract from the thrill levels...

Although I've never seen it in person, (probably voiding my comment) but SS doesn't look well themed to me?
I would much rather The Smiler, The Swarm or SAW's theming.
 
Although I've never seen it in person, (probably voiding my comment) but SS doesn't look well themed to me?
I would much rather The Smiler, The Swarm or SAW's theming.

Silver Star is styled more than themed. I suppose it is more of a showcase for Mercedes and in my opinion it does work well. Hyper coasters are always the hardest to try and theme. The good thing with Silver Star is that the exhibitions in the building are changed/refreshed each year!

Would it be a good idea to split some of this discussion off into a new topic? We seem to be quite away from just Thorpe and more into the realms of Merlin and how they theme their rides as opposed to other parks.

:)
 
I wanted to quote SO many of @CGM words it's ridiculous.

He is right, there was NOTHING like Nemesis and Oblivion, you cannot even begin to imagine (YOU WEREN'T THERE MAN) the impact these rides had on you the first time you saw them!

It was real :eek: - I HAVE TO GO ON THAT? Stuff.

I admit, it's hard for rides to do that as easily as the tech was new as well, but the landscape, the atmosphere, everything about it broke new ground. Didn't just break it, it OBLITERATED it.

That's why I think The Smiler is great fun as a ride, and is really quite clever in many ways, and with the same care and attention to detail they MAY have had another Nemesis/Oblivion on their hands - but they haven't. That is by any stretch the closest they've come. I like The Swarm but it doesn't touch it, not even close.

Even air, at the time was utterly awe inspiring, yes the tunnel lol - but that thing had real trouble, the tech back then with B&M particularly was just like - what the heck are they gonna follow this with?! (Of course, I had no idea they were all made by the same people at the time, I just like rides, knew naff all about them).

You think when that first came out anyone paid any attention to the tunnel walls? Very few if any. You were more interested in why you were actually facing the floor.

B&M have gone stale, themes in the UK have gone stale, those few years were the real "Golden Generation" of rides. Of course things move in cycles, maybe Merlin will pull their head out of their ass and start trends rather than cookie cutter marketing based crap decisions they're making now. And yes, they are.

As CGM pointed out, and I have as well prior, to know what DARK is you need LIGHT. It's called contrast, every artist worth their salt knows that, without contrast there is no perception, and with no perception, their is no art.

How do you know you are sad? Happy? That it is warm? That it is cold? That it's night or day? You know because you experience the opposite, Merlin don't get it. Dark forest is the most depressing area in any park I've ever visited, and not in a good way. It's just energy draining.

Maybe they hoped to get everyone so down they'd used "Retail therapy" to feel happier, I wouldn't put it past them hah!

But THORPE, it moves farther from contrast, the place was perky, had a bit of spunk and character about it, and even over the last few years I've watched it slowly be ruined. Happy little areas replaced by theme-less second hand non-sensical rides like Storm Surge!

And now we have another example. Most successful and lauded dark rides I seem to read about? HP, Spiderman, Arthur, Revenge of the Mummy etc - thrilling? They seem so, but DARK and DINGY? No.

They've forgotten something about adults.

They go to theme parks to feel like kids again.
 
Although I've never seen it in person, (probably voiding my comment) but SS doesn't look well themed to me?
I would much rather The Smiler, The Swarm or SAW's theming.

It's not well themed (as mentioned, but that's not the point)...

The point is that thrill rides don't need to have dark themes... Silver Star was one example not so far mentioned...
 
Saw and Swarm are for me the real doom merchants and more than anything its the background audio that sets the areas. They are both oppressive areas to be in and Saw / Saw alives queueline are truly terrible. Same with the Smiler. The queue line is very important and these three examples all have the same kind of build where you are surrounded, penned in. Horrible.

Prior to Merlin buying Tussauds, the dark themes were there but were supported by great back stories. The Nemesis narration, the Oblivion queueline videos. Queues were open though and not oppressive.

The group also built more coasters which were positive themes, than negative, not just the UK but in Heide Park as well. Desert Race, Stealth, Colossus, Nemesis Inferno, Colossos (Heide park), Spinball, heck even Rita.

To me, it seems as though it all went dark when Merlin took over.

I mean people like Candy Holland and John Wardley worked both in the Tussauds era and Merlin, so is it because of the "intriguing proposition", that they insist on?
 
I mean people like Candy Holland and John Wardley worked both in the Tussauds era and Merlin, so is it because of the "intriguing proposition", that they insist on?

What pillock came up with that slogan anyway?

It's a coaster you idiots, how about the word "fun", anyone?


Can you imagine Wardley sitting in a room using words like "blue sky thinking" and all this {expletives} - it's a kin to me sitting down in front a blank musical canvass and using similar themes, the goal in the music I write is the same, get people into an altered state, involved and immersed into the music/theme/energy.

That's why I don't just THINK it's a load of {expletives}, I KNOW it is.

EDIT: How long would one of us last in a meeting with a bunch of people coming up with something creative coming up with B****** like that :D - it's almost laughable. Except it's not. Because the stifle creativity and true ingenuity.
 
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I am going to double post here, as I think this relevant.

Designing a roller coaster, should be like designing a sports car. The Pagani Zonda/Lambo way.

Get a piece of paper, go utterly crazy, let your imagination run wild, think of the craziest, whackiest ideas possible, do it Google style, let people just go free with their ideas and reward that - use the Jobs method then, focus on Customer experience first then WORK BACKWARDS. All the true great innovators do this.

WARDLEY did this. He wanted re-ride, theatre, innovation to COMPLIMENT it not be the reason FOR it.

Merlin. Get a clue.
 
If you do a list of themes I wouldn’t say the shift looks as great as it feels when you visit the parks. For example Storm Surge and Tidal Wave are essentially similar themes, but there is a different feel, mainly due to Amity Cover Radio.

In fact I’d say the soundscapes have changed as much as the theming. For example Loggers Leap has a dark colour palette and a fairly serious theme. It’s the country music in the queue that lifts the mood. Imagine Wild Asia with some uplifting Bollywood style music.
 
Back to the IP...if anyone else has read Mockingjay do you not see similarities to the theme? This is why I still think we could be seeing The Hunger Games?

Lionsgate? Check.
Highest Grossing Lionsgate Film? Check.
Thorpe and Lionsgate relationship? Check.
The Hunger Games books trilogy outsold all the Harry Potter books on Amazon? Check.

I don't want to say too much to give away the films Part 1 and Part 2 but there is serious links to Mockingjay and this initial theme.
 
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I've never read any of the Hunger Games books, although I feel I should as the films are fantastic. But the series actually seems like a perfect fit for Thorpe; the books and films are generally aimed at young adults, so it would certainly appeal to the families Thorpe is looking at attracting. When you consider rides have been made based on much less popular IPs (both Disney and Universal are certainly guilty of that), it seems like something that could work.

Having said that, the best time for it to open would be next year - in between the Mockingjay films. Shame they would miss that window.
 
Back to the IP...if anyone else has read Mockingjay do you not see similarities to the theme? This is why I still think we could be seeing The Hunger Games?

Lionsgate? Check.
Highest Grossing Lionsgate Film? Check.
Thorpe and Lionsgate relationship? Check.
The Hunger Games books trilogy outsold all the Harry Potter books? Check.

I don't want to say too much to give away the films Part 1 and Part 2 but there is serious links to Mockingjay and this initial theme.

Sure? Had a quick nosey and given that Potter has hit over 450 million sales worldwide (in 2011, so the number will probably be higher now) I find it very hard to believe that Hunger Games (50m in 2012) has outdone it...

Would like a source on that outselling malarky more than anything tbh...
 
I'm personally not seeing it myself, the entrance sign is reminiscent of that from Victor's Village and the entrance feature could be the fountain, linking into the District Twelve section from the start of the book. However otherwise I'm not really seeing any resemblance, especially as District Thirteen is meant to be entirely underground and mainly concrete.
There were talks a few months back of a "Hunger Games theme park" and Thorpe already have close links with Lionsgate, but personally I'm not convinced. I would like to see Hunger Games introduced at a theme park but I think it will age quickly, especially with the films nearing the end, I don't feel the franchise has the staying power of Harry Potter, for example.

In a survey Thorpe released a few months back concerning IP's and attractions, The Hunger Games was available as an answer for questions, though I'm still not sure.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if the submitted plans were simply a placeholder and that designs could well yet change...

If it is IP related (which it pretty much is) then there's probably an element of confidentiality involved which Thorpe won't want to ruin in easily decipherable planning documents.
 
If it is IP related (which it pretty much is) then there's probably an element of confidentiality involved which Thorpe won't want to ruin in easily decipherable planning documents.

They should of just got the people who design Alton Towers information signs to submit them, that would have sorted that issue out.
 
To be fair if you look the Smilers plans and what we got are two very different things. The station building, themeing, even the ride layout were different. So we don't really know what we will get until construction starts. Which will be interesting as if its a major ride we could see construction during most of the 2015 season.

I kind of hope it isn't some run down building with giant cattlepen complete with corrugated metal and scaffolding. But we will see...
 
The ride was only different because Towers only needed to identify certain high points rather than the entire track, hence keeping the inversion record a secret... A good ploy by them really...

But those original plans completely changed when the groundwork issues appeared, so that's more so the reason I reckon we got a different layout (and lost other things because concrete isn't cheap)...
 
Yeah, the planning situation with The Smiler was quite unique because of the GDO, but then they were clearly forced into significant changes when they relalised the land they were building on was not as they expected. I'd be surprised if we see too many changes to Thorpe's 2016 plans, what happened with The Smiler was certainly the exception and not the rule.

:)
 
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