Turning a corner or a False Dawn? Towers and it's future

[Sazzle]

A large ship takes a long time to change direction. While there are plenty of things that are remanisit of the old Merlin, there are also quite a few things and signs of changes happening that simply would not have happened under old Merlin.

I wish I could agree… I want to be able to fly the flag for the park, but I am too concerned by the screaming neglect for the product as a whole.

A large ship does take time to turn and I recognise that there is no quick fix for such a large number of issues (see Craig’s breakdown for areas of concern!) but I do think that we should be seeing the start of a turn in the right direction. We are not.

I am genuinely embarrassed that the U.K. has to suffer an inferior product that is the supposed pinnacle of theme park offering in this country.

I have no doubt that the cost of operating a theme park is astronomical, and do not purport to know the pressure of balancing the books. However, as a consumer of the product (which ultimately pays the bills), it gets my goat that I’m being asked to put up with a trash product and yet I am expected to part with the same amount of cash. Cash which, particularly this year, is being competed for by my weekly shopping bill and utilities.

If you want my money, give me a reason to give it to you.

My thoughts on staff retention are perhaps better saved for another day…

 

[Jb85]

@Sazzle and @Craig your posts are spot on, and really do summarise the current state of affairs.

I generally feel around £25m is needed across the RTP's in infrastructure, refurbs and repairs. I can't see it happening myself.

Better to just patch things up and let the shinny new rides carry you for a few years until the next investment comes along.

 

[Sazzle]

Better to just patch things up and let the shinny new rides carry you for a few years until the next investment comes along.

Let's just keep vinyl wrapping the steaming log and then move onto our next job before it starts peeling off

My views do not, at all, downplay the (in my opinion) excellent work done on Alton Manor this year. I am so pleased that effort and funds have been put into reviving an attraction that could well have otherwise been bulldozed.

I only hope that the end result is what the creative team had hoped for, and that they weren't forced to make substantial cuts due to budgets being squeezed...

 

[Craig]

@Sazzle and @Craig your posts are spot on, and really do summarise the current state of affairs.

I generally feel around £25m is needed across the RTP's in infrastructure, refurbs and repairs. I can't see it happening myself.

Better to just patch things up and let the shinny new rides carry you for a few years until the next investment comes along.

Honestly? £25m on Towers alone probably wouldn't cover the to-do list I'd like to see done, never-mind the rest of the parks!

 

[Matt N]

Honestly? £25m on Towers alone probably wouldn't cover the to-do list I'd like to see done, never-mind the rest of the parks!

Out of interest @Craig, what would you say this “to-do list” consists of?

 

[DistortAMG]

I guess I am taking a more optimistic view, but the points made by @Craig and @Sazzle are all very valid, true and difficult to argue with.

It cannot be argued about the sharp decline this year in certain key areas, would you agree though that those areas were already in decline before this season and it is just their rate of decline has just increased? I am optimistic that these areas will improve with new staff from outside the company. Perhaps this is why Alton Towers have replaced a lot of their leadership from outside the company?

The way I see it, perhaps no so much with Chessington right now. But Alton Manor, Nemesis refurb and even Horizon, represent a fundamental shift in the way MMM and the parks approach attractions. Seeds of this were present with Wickerman too, but it is clear they are hitting a stride and are in tune and in touch from the results of Alton Manor.

No point sorting the food out if you cannot sort out the attraction quality and type of attractions on offer. With no attractions there is no need to sell any food as you have no theme park. So it looks to me, they are seemingly starting to get the foundations of their business correct.

There have been a few mis steps at Chessington for sure, but a project like that (Amazon) was probably in the planning stages before Merlin went private. It shows. It has all the hallmarks of the public Merlin. I suspect certain things may have wanted to be changed but contracts were already signed and construction possibly started.

The nature of the 3 Alton attractions mentioned above would more than likely have been greenlit after the company went private. Not surprising with Nemesis and Alton Manor, as they are just essentially refurbishments. Then with Horizon, that certainly would have been green lit after, with that attraction though, we do not have much to go on right now, but all the signs are positive. Then they have Sub Terra being brought back.

The point I am making is, think there is a clear desire to get the core of their business sorted out, all developments happening and that have recently happened at Alton Towers, show these hallmarks. You have to get the core right before anything else, because without the core of the business, you have no business. So It seems, focus has shifted there somewhat, obviously working within the resources they have. Everything cannot be solved all at once. Doing it step by step, they have possibly started at the core, working the way up - which would be the logical way to do things.

Hopefully other areas improve with this new leadership.

 

[Squiggs]

Let's just keep vinyl wrapping the steaming log and then move onto our next job before it starts peeling off

They say you can tell how long Merlin have been running an attraction by cutting the log in two and counting the vinyl rings!

 

[Jb85]

Honestly? £25m on Towers alone probably wouldn't cover the to-do list I'd like to see done, never-mind the rest of the parks!

In all honesty, your probably not wrong. And that's the problem. Playing devil's advocate, buy why would any business spend that much money (on reality probably 3 or 4 times that) on something you won't get a return on.

 

[Craig]

Out of interest @Craig, what would you say this “to-do list” consists of?

If it's purely on infrastructure? Just off the top of my head I've spent the lot:

• Monorail upgrade (that'll burn through pretty much the whole £25m and then some) or a suitable replacement
• Proper car park traffic management and capacity to stop the mess in the morning. Actually sort the meadows car park investment that from a recent application they're now pushing back to 2025.
• Toilets being properly refurbished a la Thorpe Park (I never believed that I'd be saying that)
• A proper subsidised public transport system for staff that runs at sensible times so they're not waiting for sometimes hours before/after their shifts. It's not good paying close to minimum wage and expecting staff to be travelling in on their own transport when fuel is so expensive, not to mention the cost of paying for a car in the first place thanks to current interest rates.

In all honesty, your probably not wrong. And that's the problem. Playing devil's advocate, buy why would any business spend that much money (on reality probably 3 or 4 times that) on something you won't get a return on.

Long term I feel they would see a return on it, but that's what worries me - is that to do list too big of a mountain to climb now? Is the group willing to wait so long for that investment to pay off? The park has the potential to pull in massive numbers and have a proper resort setup where guests can have a proper short break at the park with plenty to do. But they need a proper long term plan and some real investment to do so, I just fear they may have missed the bus to actually do it now...

I guess I am taking a more optimistic view, but the points made by @Craig and @Sazzle are all very valid, true and difficult to argue with.

It cannot be argued about the sharp decline this year in certain key areas, would you agree though that those areas were already in decline before this season and it is just their rate of decline has just increased? I am optimistic that these areas will improve with new staff from outside the company. Perhaps this is why Alton Towers have replaced a lot of their leadership from outside the company?

The way I see it, perhaps no so much with Chessington right now. But Alton Manor, Nemesis refurb and even Horizon, represent a fundamental shift in the way MMM and the parks approach attractions, seeds of this were present with Wickerman too, but it is clear they are hitting a stride and are in tune and in touch from the results of Alton Manor.

No point sorting the food out if you cannot sort out the attraction quality and type of attractions, with no attractions there is no need to sell any food as you have no theme park. So it looks to me, there are seemingly starting to get the foundations of their business correct, which is the attractions and rides themselves.

There have been a few mis steps at Chessington for sure, but a project like that was probably in the planning stages before Merlin went private. It shows, it has all the hallmarks of the public Merlin. I suspect certain things may have wanted to be changed but contracts were already signed and construction possibly started.

The nature of the 3 Alton attractions mentioned above would more than likely have been greenlit after the company went private. Not surprising with Nemesis and Alton Manor, as they are just essentially refurbishments. Then with Horizon, that certainly would have been green lit after, with that attraction though, we do not have much to go on right now, but all the signs are positive. Then they have Sub Terra being brought back.

I think there is a clear desire to get the core of their business sorted out, all developments happening and that have recently happened at Alton Towers, show these hallmarks.

Hopefully other areas improve with this new leadership.

Yes a lot of those things were already in decline, and yes the rate of decline has increased too. However, my argument would be that a sensible business should at the very least be maintaining the current standard in those areas while targeting investment on improvements in others. We've seen the opposite in recent years with things being allowed to simply rot before quite literally papering (well, vinyling) over the cracks to limp through another season. I also go back to events as evidence that even recent additions have been allowed to remain stale or in some cases regress, rather than expand year on year.

Wickerman was of course a great investment, but at the same time it replaced another attraction that was left to rot in The Flume. Alton Manor was a must do because of the state Duel was allowed to get into. In terms of Nemesis, it was also a must do because of the potential issues in the near future. Sub Terra is an attempt to just try and get some more attractions on that side of the park with the loss of Nemesis. Perhaps Horizon may change things, but currently all we see is everything being reactive, just trying to keep what the park has ticking over rather than any sort of vision for expansion and a solid vision to increase guest numbers.

I've got to disagree on the point of there being no point sorting the food out without sorting out the quality and type of attractions. Alton Towers is a theme park, food quality should go hand in hand with the ride lineup and be just as important - they're a theme park not a fairground after all (allegedly, anyway). One could even argue it's even more important, as along with retail it's where that extra revenue comes from once a guest has gone through the gate. As a passholder I'm paying nothing to get into the park, I'm paying nothing to park my car. I want to spend money at the resort, but I'll only spend the absolute bare minimum if what they're offering isn't good enough in the first place. I'd absolutely love to be able to go on park, have lunch, buy some pick and mix then finish up with dinner in the hotels before heading back. Would I do all that now? Not a chance. That extra revenue justifies your big investments, and they're rapidly losing it with the watering down of the current product.

 

[Sazzle]

In all honesty, your probably not wrong. And that's the problem. Playing devil's advocate, buy why would any business spend that much money (on reality probably 3 or 4 times that) on something you won't get a return on.

And that, dear sir, is exactly the problem. While there is no way to actively market investment that is simply keeping your product up to a good standard, without that investment your product declines to the point your attendance and guest satisfaction is through the floor and you can't actually generate revenue.

I would LOVE to see the amount of investment that Europa Park put into maintenance, general park improvements, and infrastructure upkeep on an annual basis. I should imagine it is immeasurably more than Merlin give the three parks combined over perhaps a three year period.

That is why UK Merlin parks, generally, offer a sub-par guest experience.

I recall the words "Product Excellence" being bandied around in the upper echelons of Merlin Management not so long ago; I implore this 'team', if it exists, to get on the ground and start fighting their cause instead of settling for "it'll do".

 

[QTXAdsy]

You'll all forgetting that for many years, Merlin have had much of a monopoly of the UK theme park scene in which they weren't challenged and pretty much got away with everything. Now with Paultons looking like they could be a serious player within this decade if they keep their good form up, not to mention Drayton's new direction might go well for them if they can pull it off. Competition has been badly needed in this country, PBB looks like a busted flush at this point unless they seriously pull their finger out and have serious management put in place so I won't count them. Nonetheless if those parks were to put Towers or any of the Merlin parks to shame then Merlin's humiliation and hubris for getting away with not being challenged for so long will be completed. Those are parks that look hungry and ripe for potential butt just lacking in Merlin's money and if those parks had even half the budgets Merlin give for not only their attractions but general upkeep and resort improvements too then I can only see Merlin being caught with their pants down with no one to blame but themselves for years of sleep walking without doing anything to keep ahead of everyone will come back to bite them.

The scary thing is, if those parks did actually ended up causing problems by attracting guests to them with a more higher product if Merlin keep running Towers into the ground then I seriously doubt Merlin would know how to compete and end up making things worse for themselves which knowing Merlin wouldn't surprise me sadly.

 

[Craig]

I don't think anyone is forgetting that Merlin have a virtual monopoly of not just UK theme parks, but of the wider midway industry too. It's been a talking point of forums right back to the TTF days.

We know why they're in the position they're in - the race to the bottom has caught up with them.

 

[NuttySquirrel]

You'll all forgetting that for many years, Merlin have had much of a monopoly of the UK theme park scene in which they weren't challenged and pretty much got away with everything. Now with Paultons looking like they could be a serious player within this decade if they keep their good form up, not to mention Drayton's new direction might go well for them if they can pull it off. Competition has been badly needed in this country, PBB looks like a busted flush at this point unless they seriously pull their finger out and have serious management put in place so I won't count them. Nonetheless if those parks were to put Towers or any of the Merlin parks to shame then Merlin's humiliation and hubris for getting away with not being challenged for so long will be completed. Those are parks that look hungry and ripe for potential butt just lacking in Merlin's money and if those parks had even half the budgets Merlin give for not only their attractions but general upkeep and resort improvements too then I can only see Merlin being caught with their pants down with no one to blame but themselves for years of sleep walking without doing anything to keep ahead of everyone will come back to bite them.

The scary thing is, if those parks did actually ended up causing problems by attracting guests to them with a more higher product if Merlin keep running Towers into the ground then I seriously doubt Merlin would know how to compete and end up making things worse for themselves which knowing Merlin wouldn't surprise me sadly.

It's true, Paultons are doing everything right, but they're probably likely only ever going to offer direct competition with Chessington both in terms of target audience and geography. I don't see any direct competition for AT and Thorpe Park unfortunately, although it's possible that people will sack off their annual trip to AT and go somewhere like Efteling or Phantasialand instead; it's got so expensive in recent years that a short trip abroad has become a viable alternative for some.

 

[QTXAdsy]

although it's possible that people will sack off their annual trip to AT and go somewhere like Efteling or Phantasialand instead; it's got so expensive in recent years that a short trip abroad has become a viable alternative for some.

*cough* some of us can't afford a trip abroad even so some of us are utterly screwed so all I can do is watch videos on YouTube which will likely be the closest I'll get to those places...my trip to Europa Park I'll confess was more of a one off unless someone was very generous to help me out.

 

[NuttySquirrel]

*cough* some of us can't afford a trip abroad even so some of us are utterly screwed so all I can do is watch videos on YouTube which will likely be the closest I'll get to those places...my trip to Europa Park I'll confess was more of a one off unless someone was very generous to help me out.

Yep, totally get that, which is why I said "for some". Thinking chiefly of families with 2+ children who might spend several hundred pounds on a short break to ATR, stay at the hotel, eat at hotel restaurants and do the park and water park etc. If those groups start taking off abroad instead that could be a significant loss of revenue for the resort.

 

[Jb85]

And that, dear sir, is exactly the problem. While there is no way to actively market investment that is simply keeping your product up to a good standard, without that investment your product declines to the point your attendance and guest satisfaction is through the floor and you can't actually generate revenue.

I would LOVE to see the amount of investment that Europa Park put into maintenance, general park improvements, and infrastructure upkeep on an annual basis. I should imagine it is immeasurably more than Merlin give the three parks combined over perhaps a three year period.

That is why UK Merlin parks, generally, offer a sub-par guest experience.

I recall the words "Product Excellence" being bandied around in the upper echelons of Merlin Management not so long ago; I implore this 'team', if it exists, to get on the ground and start fighting their cause instead of settling for "it'll do".

Your so right. The issue is the UK market is pretty much a Merlin monopoly.

We should have a whip round and buy the park back

 

[ChristmasPud]

I only hope that the end result is what the creative team had hoped for, and that they weren't forced to make substantial cuts due to budgets being squeezed...

If there were cuts, it doesn't let down the experience and is entertaining, so they've done it successfully. Maybe the more key thing with Alton Manor is I hope it was intentional, rather than a fluke that kept it from being another standard Merlin revamp. Then it would be a great sign of structural change. It's probably too early to know for sure.

 

[Matt.GC]

I thought I'd just pop back in for a second if no one minds? By this time of season, I've normally visited twice by now. I haven't been able to due to 3 family bereavements in the past few weeks taking up much of my time and emotional energy.

I would have visited first for a mid week last week of March, take the family up last week of Easter holidays, then usually a summer family overnight stay, an early September visit with a friend and another overnight stay with the family at Scarefest. When I created this thread, it was off the back of a 2022 season which felt like a step back on the season before and looking ahead to 2023 I could only see things that were net negative. With Nemesis closed, Alton Manor was the only reason I wanted to visit. Alton Manor and promises of Nemesis returning in 2024 as CoD: The Ride and a small indoor coaster coming in 2025/26 was never going to offset almost everything else either staying the same or getting worse for 2023. I never quite understood the point of view of others who repeatedly quoted these 3 projects as a reason to feel positive about the future when almost everything else is getting worse. So that's why I thought it would be good to create the thread and have the discussion.

Sadly, although I'm not saying I would wish the last few weeks I've had on anyone, I'm glad I haven't been to Towers yet as it would have been a waste of £1.80 per litre diesel after reading everyone's experiences so far. The plan was to get in there for a quiet mid week visit with a friend in the last week of my annual pass to ride Alton Manor and then decide if I wanted to bring the family up again in the summer (after last year, I decided pre-season that we weren't going to bother with overnight stays anymore). I've only really been catching up on this forum the last few days and for the first season since my first visit back in the late 1980's I can't think of why I'd want to visit at all?

In the positive column, it sounds like Alton Manor is as good as I would have hoped and I will happily celebrate what they've done with that.

But why would I want to drive all the way to Staffordshire, even if I can get in for free under the following circumstances?:

*Long queue for a grotty monorail they might not even bother to open, outside a station where purple paint has been job lot slapped over a rotting façade; or walk a long distance up hill along the most uninviting route to a theme park entrance imaginable.
*Spend all day walking around a large and hilly theme park trying to find rides that are open because the Sky Ride is shut.
*Pay £600+ per night to stay in hotels that need refurbishing that I know are getting worse and worse every year, followed by a breakfast the next day that I know is bad.
*Pay more to get my kids in than ever before.
*Shorter park opening hours.
*Pay significantly more for poorer quality food than last year, same poor variety of choices.
*No Nemesis, my favourite attraction on park.
*No Enterprise.
*No Spinball.
*No Hex.
*Garish and Ugly fun fair rides.
*Shockingly bad ride availability on the few attractions that remain.
*No improvements whatsoever with all the existing resort issues (Towers Street rot, state of Smiler, state of KC, state of rapids, state of Williams Cuckoo Dungeon World, state of Dark Forest to name but a few).

A 2023 trip isn't rather appealing is it? Doesn't sound like the park is turning a corner either does it? When the whole resort is heading in this direction so quickly, a rethemed Duel, the re-opening of a coaster *next year* that operated for 28 years beforehand anyway and a small indoor coaster maybe coming in a few years time just doesn't cut it. Imagine if they responded to a complaint email stating these things? "I'm sorry you only got on 3 rides, your £600 hotel room smelt damp and you paid £11 for a burger you later threw up down a 40 year old toilet bowl. But we are re-opening a 28 year old coaster next year and promise to open a small new indoor one at some point in the latter half of the decade so all is well".

Merlin have been private since 2019. That's 4 years and 3 full seasons. How much time do they need before we start seeing green shoots? Some of the posts on here read like some of the crap decisions they're making right now are somehow not their fault. At best, they're continuations of PLC Merlin policies, at worst they're newer ones being made right now as you read this. Not PLC Merlin decisions, but private Merlin one's. 4 years after becoming private, what you are all experiencing so far this season is their fault. It's not Rishi Sunak, it's not Vladimir Putin, it's not Royal Dutch Shell, it's not Covid, it's not the Daily Mirror, it's not Kay Burley - hell it's not even Nick Varney! It's private Merlin.

There's always an excuse to hide decades of neglect, underinvestment and crazy decisions. What is it at the moment? Putin and inflation? Before that it was Covid. Before that it was the Smiler crash (they crashed it with poor policies and procedures and were found guilty as such). Then it was the 2008 financial crises. God knows what the excuse was before that? 9/11 probably. Thank god Paultons haven't borrowed the same excuse book from the local library.

This is a direction of travel that's been going on for a long time and it seems like the current state of the world right now is only helping accelerate it - it's not what actually caused it. This park is too precious and beautiful to be run like this and should be spun off from the rest of the Merlin estate. It needs to be sold to an investor or park operator who actually gives a damn about it before it becomes un-investable as a going concern (or have we passed that point already?). It's the only way I can ever see it getting any better. Sadly, I think this will just continue. In a few years time when you park up next to a vinyl covered closed monorail station to get a land train through the car parks ready for your exciting 11am -4pm day of eating £20 inedible burgers, riding fun fair flats and spending hours in queues for 30 year old coasters on their last legs - ask yourself if you would have had a better experience 5,10,15,20,25 and 30 years ago.

 

[Trooper Looper]

I thought I'd just pop back in for a second if no one minds? By this time of season, I've normally visited twice by now. I haven't been able to due to 3 family bereavements in the past few weeks taking up much of my time and emotional energy.

I would have visited first for a mid week last week of March, take the family up last week of Easter holidays, then usually a summer family overnight stay, an early September visit with a friend and another overnight stay with the family at Scarefest. When I created this thread, it was off the back of a 2022 season which felt like a step back on the season before and looking ahead to 2023 I could only see things that were net negative. With Nemesis closed, Alton Manor was the only reason I wanted to visit. Alton Manor and promises of Nemesis returning in 2024 as CoD: The Ride and a small indoor coaster coming in 2025/26 was never going to offset almost everything else either staying the same or getting worse for 2023. I never quite understood the point of view of others who repeatedly quoted these 3 projects as a reason to feel positive about the future when almost everything else is getting worse. So that's why I thought it would be good to create the thread and have the discussion.

Sadly, although I'm not saying I would wish the last few weeks I've had on anyone, I'm glad I haven't been to Towers yet as it would have been a waste of £1.80 per litre diesel after reading everyone's experiences so far. The plan was to get in there for a quiet mid week visit with a friend in the last week of my annual pass to ride Alton Manor and then decide if I wanted to bring the family up again in the summer (after last year, I decided pre-season that we weren't going to bother with overnight stays anymore). I've only really been catching up on this forum the last few days and for the first season since my first visit back in the late 1980's I can't think of why I'd want to visit at all?

In the positive column, it sounds like Alton Manor is as good as I would have hoped and I will happily celebrate what they've done with that.

But why would I want to drive all the way to Staffordshire, even if I can get in for free under the following circumstances?:

*Long queue for a grotty monorail they might not even bother to open, outside a station where purple paint has been job lot slapped over a rotting façade; or walk a long distance up hill along the most uninviting route to a theme park entrance imaginable.
*Spend all day walking around a large and hilly theme park trying to find rides that are open because the Sky Ride is shut.
*Pay £600+ per night to stay in hotels that need refurbishing that I know are getting worse and worse every year, followed by a breakfast the next day that I know is bad.
*Pay more to get my kids in than ever before.
*Shorter park opening hours.
*Pay significantly more for poorer quality food than last year, same poor variety of choices.
*No Nemesis, my favourite attraction on park.
*No Enterprise.
*No Spinball.
*No Hex.
*Garish and Ugly fun fair rides.
*Shockingly bad ride availability on the few attractions that remain.
*No improvements whatsoever with all the existing resort issues (Towers Street rot, state of Smiler, state of KC, state of rapids, state of Williams Cuckoo Dungeon World, state of Dark Forest to name but a few).

A 2023 trip isn't rather appealing is it? Doesn't sound like the park is turning a corner either does it? When the whole resort is heading in this direction so quickly, a rethemed Duel, the re-opening of a coaster *next year* that operated for 28 years beforehand anyway and a small indoor coaster maybe coming in a few years time just doesn't cut it. Imagine if they responded to a complaint email stating these things? "I'm sorry you only got on 3 rides, your £600 hotel room smelt damp and you paid £11 for a burger you later threw up down a 40 year old toilet bowl. But we are re-opening a 28 year old coaster next year and promise to open a small new indoor one at some point in the latter half of the decade so all is well".

Merlin have been private since 2019. That's 4 years and 3 full seasons. How much time do they need before we start seeing green shoots? Some of the posts on here read like some of the crap decisions they're making right now are somehow not their fault. At best, they're continuations of PLC Merlin policies, at worst they're newer ones being made right now as you read this. Not PLC Merlin decisions, but private Merlin one's. 4 years after becoming private, what you are all experiencing so far this season is their fault. It's not Rishi Sunak, it's not Vladimir Putin, it's not Royal Dutch Shell, it's not Covid, it's not the Daily Mirror, it's not Kay Burley - hell it's not even Nick Varney! It's private Merlin.

There's always an excuse to hide decades of neglect, underinvestment and crazy decisions. What is it at the moment? Putin and inflation? Before that it was Covid. Before that it was the Smiler crash (they crashed it with poor policies and procedures and were found guilty as such). Then it was the 2008 financial crises. God knows what the excuse was before that? 9/11 probably. Thank god Paultons haven't borrowed the same excuse book from the local library.

This is a direction of travel that's been going on for a long time and it seems like the current state of the world right now is only helping accelerate it - it's not what actually caused it. This park is too precious and beautiful to be run like this and should be spun off from the rest of the Merlin estate. It needs to be sold to an investor or park operator who actually gives a damn about it before it becomes un-investable as a going concern (or have we passed that point already?). It's the only way I can ever see it getting any better. Sadly, I think this will just continue. In a few years time when you park up next to a vinyl covered closed monorail station to get a land train through the car parks ready for your exciting 11am -4pm day of eating £20 inedible burgers, riding fun fair flats and spending hours in queues for 30 year old coasters on their last legs - ask yourself if you would have had a better experience 5,10,15,20,25 and 30 years ago.

Hi, I know I can't say much from my own experience, but I'm really sorry to hear about your losses, especially in such a short time span...

Anyway, onto a less negative topic though, with what you've said in this log post, I think you've nailed it with the parks current problems and it's concerning future. When I went there for Alton Manors opening day, after riding it (it was okay) the rest of the park felt derelict or wasn't being properly given the TLC it was needed apart from the Runaway Mine Train and Mutiny Bay. It really wasn't the same with Nemesis, and with my 2nd favourite ride there, Oblivion, was in a sorry state in some parts. I simply didn't feel the Magic that the park used to give me for at least a few years now, and it's sad seeing it in such a careless state.

Im really happy that you made this thread as it shows more honest and genuine opinions from others here I would've never expected in the General Discussion Threads.

From what I've seen of this year so far though, I think it's time for Merlin to let Alton Towers go, give another company a go with it, or let Alton Towers become independently ran. Merlin have clearly done more harm than good to the park throughout their time owning it, especially with some of the rides in bad condition, removal of flat rides and non coaster attractions, bad food choices, horrendous hotel services, and poor events.

 

[Matt N]

I thought I'd just pop back in for a second if no one minds? By this time of season, I've normally visited twice by now. I haven't been able to due to 3 family bereavements in the past few weeks taking up much of my time and emotional energy.

I would have visited first for a mid week last week of March, take the family up last week of Easter holidays, then usually a summer family overnight stay, an early September visit with a friend and another overnight stay with the family at Scarefest. When I created this thread, it was off the back of a 2022 season which felt like a step back on the season before and looking ahead to 2023 I could only see things that were net negative. With Nemesis closed, Alton Manor was the only reason I wanted to visit. Alton Manor and promises of Nemesis returning in 2024 as CoD: The Ride and a small indoor coaster coming in 2025/26 was never going to offset almost everything else either staying the same or getting worse for 2023. I never quite understood the point of view of others who repeatedly quoted these 3 projects as a reason to feel positive about the future when almost everything else is getting worse. So that's why I thought it would be good to create the thread and have the discussion.

Sadly, although I'm not saying I would wish the last few weeks I've had on anyone, I'm glad I haven't been to Towers yet as it would have been a waste of £1.80 per litre diesel after reading everyone's experiences so far. The plan was to get in there for a quiet mid week visit with a friend in the last week of my annual pass to ride Alton Manor and then decide if I wanted to bring the family up again in the summer (after last year, I decided pre-season that we weren't going to bother with overnight stays anymore). I've only really been catching up on this forum the last few days and for the first season since my first visit back in the late 1980's I can't think of why I'd want to visit at all?

In the positive column, it sounds like Alton Manor is as good as I would have hoped and I will happily celebrate what they've done with that.

But why would I want to drive all the way to Staffordshire, even if I can get in for free under the following circumstances?:

*Long queue for a grotty monorail they might not even bother to open, outside a station where purple paint has been job lot slapped over a rotting façade; or walk a long distance up hill along the most uninviting route to a theme park entrance imaginable.
*Spend all day walking around a large and hilly theme park trying to find rides that are open because the Sky Ride is shut.
*Pay £600+ per night to stay in hotels that need refurbishing that I know are getting worse and worse every year, followed by a breakfast the next day that I know is bad.
*Pay more to get my kids in than ever before.
*Shorter park opening hours.
*Pay significantly more for poorer quality food than last year, same poor variety of choices.
*No Nemesis, my favourite attraction on park.
*No Enterprise.
*No Spinball.
*No Hex.
*Garish and Ugly fun fair rides.
*Shockingly bad ride availability on the few attractions that remain.
*No improvements whatsoever with all the existing resort issues (Towers Street rot, state of Smiler, state of KC, state of rapids, state of Williams Cuckoo Dungeon World, state of Dark Forest to name but a few).

A 2023 trip isn't rather appealing is it? Doesn't sound like the park is turning a corner either does it? When the whole resort is heading in this direction so quickly, a rethemed Duel, the re-opening of a coaster *next year* that operated for 28 years beforehand anyway and a small indoor coaster maybe coming in a few years time just doesn't cut it. Imagine if they responded to a complaint email stating these things? "I'm sorry you only got on 3 rides, your £600 hotel room smelt damp and you paid £11 for a burger you later threw up down a 40 year old toilet bowl. But we are re-opening a 28 year old coaster next year and promise to open a small new indoor one at some point in the latter half of the decade so all is well".

Merlin have been private since 2019. That's 4 years and 3 full seasons. How much time do they need before we start seeing green shoots? Some of the posts on here read like some of the crap decisions they're making right now are somehow not their fault. At best, they're continuations of PLC Merlin policies, at worst they're newer ones being made right now as you read this. Not PLC Merlin decisions, but private Merlin one's. 4 years after becoming private, what you are all experiencing so far this season is their fault. It's not Rishi Sunak, it's not Vladimir Putin, it's not Royal Dutch Shell, it's not Covid, it's not the Daily Mirror, it's not Kay Burley - hell it's not even Nick Varney! It's private Merlin.

There's always an excuse to hide decades of neglect, underinvestment and crazy decisions. What is it at the moment? Putin and inflation? Before that it was Covid. Before that it was the Smiler crash (they crashed it with poor policies and procedures and were found guilty as such). Then it was the 2008 financial crises. God knows what the excuse was before that? 9/11 probably. Thank god Paultons haven't borrowed the same excuse book from the local library.

This is a direction of travel that's been going on for a long time and it seems like the current state of the world right now is only helping accelerate it - it's not what actually caused it. This park is too precious and beautiful to be run like this and should be spun off from the rest of the Merlin estate. It needs to be sold to an investor or park operator who actually gives a damn about it before it becomes un-investable as a going concern (or have we passed that point already?). It's the only way I can ever see it getting any better. Sadly, I think this will just continue. In a few years time when you park up next to a vinyl covered closed monorail station to get a land train through the car parks ready for your exciting 11am -4pm day of eating £20 inedible burgers, riding fun fair flats and spending hours in queues for 30 year old coasters on their last legs - ask yourself if you would have had a better experience 5,10,15,20,25 and 30 years ago.

It’s nice to see you back @Matt.GC! I’m sorry to hear about your difficulties over the last few months, and I hope that things are getting slightly better for you.

I do get your points about 4 years having passed since the private buyout. However, what I would say is that the lists of problems people keep reeling off are quite long, and I almost wonder if trying to address them all at once would be impossible.

I feel that the park are currently in a bit of a no-win situation, wherein if they address one problem, people will still moan that they haven’t addressed a different one. Realistically, you’re not going to see a bundle of new flat rides, a renovated Duel, a renovated Congo River Rapids, a new headline water ride, a renovated Monorail etc etc all done in a couple of years. Had the park, say, built a bundle of new flat rides instead of renovating Duel into Alton Manor for 2023, people would still be moaning that they hadn’t sorted out Duel. Had they spent big money renovating the Monorail instead of renovating Nemesis (a full Monorail renovation would inevitably be a costly project), Nemesis may well have been unable to operate past 2022, and that would inevitably have generated upset.

I can understand why people want Project Horizon to be pushed back or cancelled, but it should still round out the lineup and offer something different and new to the park’s guests, so it should still be a positive investment, in my view. Also, 7 years will have passed since Wicker Man by the time it is rumoured to open (2025). That’s quite a long time, and I think the struggles of Thorpe Park in the last half a decade to a decade would suggest that parks do need new major rides on a semi-regular basis to keep guests coming back and keep the product feeling fresh. With that in mind, I do feel that it’s fair for the park to build a new major ride in 2025, and I think that Project Horizon is ultimately necessary and should be a really positive move for the park.

Before I ramble on for too long, my basic point is; it would never have been feasible to get all of these problems sorted overnight. Yes, 4 years have passed since the Merlin buyout, but the pandemic happened not long after the buyout was finalised and you were never going to get them to commit to any large-scale CAPEX during the uncertainty of 2020, so we were never realistically going to see the start of private Merlin’s mark until 2022 or 2023. And even though Merlin is a big company, it is not economically feasible for them to splash cash doing all of these things at once, so you were always going to see a more gradual approach to them dealing with the perceived issues. These lists of issues being described by people are long, so getting Merlin to spend money on all of them in a couple of seasons isn’t particularly feasible.

It’s a marathon, not a sprint, and I have faith that all of these things will eventually be tackled. They’ve just chosen to tackle certain things first, like Duel and Nemesis.