UK Politics General Discussion

[GooseOnTheLoose]

RULE BRITTANIA, BRITTANIA RULES THE WAVES.

Amusing that both the poem, and the music, for that song were written before the abolition of slavery in the British Empire.

"Britons never, never, never will be slaves... The rest of you though, that's not really up for debate, now get on the boat"

 

[pluk]

I like what they are doing, it's the quality of the message that's poor.

Means testing things like winter fuel allowance is so objectively obviously a good idea (giving money to people who don't need money is a bad idea when theres not enough to give sufficent moneyto those who do need it) it's amazing to me the 'outrage' from the right has been able to take such traction. What they need to do/have done is commit that saved money to maintaining other means tested / more worthy initiatives, of which there are plenty that could be announced as ring fenced at no actual cost. As it is they've allowed the narrative of the right to take hold.

 

[Alsty]

Isn't there a thing in politics where you get your most unpopular policies out early so people have forgotten them by the time the election rolls around.

 

[rob666]

...Every sentenced prisoner has to work, or be enrolled in education. Every establishment has several factory style workshops turning everything out from McDonald's Happy Meal toys, to trailer boards, to plumbing accessories. A fair few industrial launderettes also subcontract to HMPPS. Someone really ought to submit on FOI and see how much revenue is generated for the treasury.
...

Every sentenced prisoner has to work???
Come on now.
How about finding out how many prisoners are actually working instead?
If there was enough space, enough staff, and enough actual posts for every prisoner to work, then maybe the home office would release the detailed figures.
The best I could see was about twenty percent of prisoners get to work, if they are fit enough, have the staff, access to work etc.
I knew lots of young offenders who did better in education inside than out, but work experience and "real work" options were very limited indeed...continuing into the adult prison.
You can't be at work if desperate overcrowding and staff rotas mean twenty hours a day in a doubled up single cell.

 

[GaryH]

I don’t have a problem with means testing but as I’ve been saying, this could have been implemented better and there should have been a buffer zone for those who are just outside the pension credits boundary. Cutting it for those living abroad should have been the first step, then looking at how many such as the people in the article below are just outside receiving credits. It’s these who will really suffer in the winter.

Winter fuel payment cut: 'I will miss out by £3'

Pensioners are missing out on winter fuel payments by as little as £3, with some saying they will have to continue working well into old age.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[rob666]

My sis is in Canada...her pension was limited to what she would have got years ago and no more.
There is no triple lock for many (but not all) overseas pensioners.

 

[Leigh]

I don’t have a problem with means testing but as I’ve been saying, this could have been implemented better and there should have been a buffer zone for those who are just outside the pension credits boundary. Cutting it for those living abroad should have been the first step, then looking at how many such as the people in the article below are just outside receiving credits. It’s these who will really suffer in the winter.

The pension credits boundary is very frustrating. If you get just £1 a week top up guarantee credit, you get everything - but as soon as you hit that threshold it’s goodbye council tax reduction, goodbye housing credit, goodbye everything else.

Same principle with the income tax cliff edge - you earn 1p over £99,999.99 a year (yes I know that’s a MASSIVE salary), you lose all entitlement to free childcare and a bunch of other tax free schemes immediately. Cliff edges discourage people from earning more and there should never be a situation where a hard edge exists - it should always be tapered, like what happens with the personal allowance reduction (for every £1 over the threshold, the PA reduces by 50p).

It’s very common for people to deliberately dilute their salaries under that threshold just to keep those entitlements, through salary sacrifice schemes and stuff like that.

 

[Benzin]

The 'problem' with any means testing is no matter where the boundary is positioned there will always be some who miss it by a teeny bit. You cannot suit it for everyone.

Think I saw 900k are eligible for the credits but don't have it for whatever reason. Labour's goal now should be getting those who are eligible onto the system. And so on for any who are in potential of the cold this winter, since not just the pensioners who are at risk after all.

Support all those suffering.

 

[IanB]

How do they know there is 900k people who are eligible for it, and if they know this, why can’t they auto enroll them?

The budget is going to be a painful one with everyone being worse off, I don’t understand why they have done this first, instead of all of them at the same time?

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

I don’t understand why they have done this first, instead of all of them at the same time?

Because winter is coming! (Couldn't resist).

The window for the Winter Fuel Payments is about to open, they don't want to have to pay it to everyone this year. It will be offset by the pension increase in a few months. It reduces the overall bill somewhat.

How do they know there is 900k people who are eligible for it, and if they know this, why can’t they auto enroll them?

It's a presumed guess. They don't know for certain and they are actively encouraging EVERYONE to check, there are a few factors which come into play which may disqualify you. Rachel Reeves is on record as saying that she wants 100% of people entitled to pension credit to claim it.

 

[Spark]

Probably the hardest job is for most of the pensioners use a PC to be able to check if they qualify

 

[rob666]

My sis is a long term pensioner.
She still writes popular apps for python, and kotlin...done computer programming in science for forty odd years.
Mind your age prejudice!

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

Probably the hardest job is for most of the pensioners use a PC to be able to check if they qualify

Most pensioners will have been using computers, smart devices and the internet at work for the past 20-30 years.

 

[Spark]

Still some that wont tho, just because you know someone that can use one doesnt mean they all will

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

Still some that wont tho, just because you know someone that can use one doesnt mean they all will

That's entirely their own fault then. You can lead a horse to water, etc, etc.

 

[Spark]

lol great way that, jesus you really blame the older generation for not being able to use a computer?

 

[jon81uk]

lol great way that, jesus you really blame the older generation for not being able to use a computer?

Yes. As above computers have been part of daily life for 20-30 years or more. My parents are in their 70s and have used them for probably around 35 years. My grandparents were using them in the 1990s. At this point I would be expect the majority of 65-75 year olds have used a computer at some point in their life and those aged 75+ if they are eligible for pensions credit should have started claiming it years ago. They can also go to citizens advice for assistance.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

lol great way that, jesus you really blame the older generation for not being able to use a computer?

They can go to a library and ask for help. They can call DWP, or visit a Job Centre Plus and ask for help. They could even go to a bloody Apple Store and fill out the forms there with a genius. They can request paper forms, through a telephone number, or PO box. The Post Office has advice.

Digital poverty exists, but digital illiteracy is really no longer a thing, and there are alternatives and solutions in place.

Even someone who is 100, is more than likely to have used a computer in their last place of work. Although, if they're 100, it's more than likely that they've worked out if they're entitled to pension credit or not, they've been retired for around 35 years.

 

[rob666]

As the resident old git, can I explain that I started learning about computers, and using an educational computer, in the sixth form...all those years ago.
Playing with computers, and at times programming them, since the seventies.

Some older people think means tested benefits are for the underclass alone, and pride stops them from claiming.
Simple as that.

Like workhouses that became hospitals, some people don't want to go there because of bad old history.
Times change quickly, people change slowly.

 

[Matt.GC]

People not being able to use the internet was probably a concern 20 or so years ago. But it's probably a minute issue now. My grandmother was in her mid 90's when she passed away last year, and was the most old fashioned person I've ever known. She still recorded her TV programmes on VHS, withdrew her pension from the Post Office in cash on a Thursday, and wore an apron until the day she died. She had a broadband connection, a laptop she used to email relatives from, and used to text me from her phone (something I really miss).

Old people are not stupid. Despite the forgetfulness, she was as sharp and astute as she ever was in her later years.

There used to genuinely be people who did not know how to use a computer only a few years ago. But both my parents are retired and probably have about as much computer knowledge as I do. They've used them at work, to sort out mortgages, and shop online. We got out first PC with dialup in the early 90's, and my now retired dad used to show me how to use it. My father-law is even older and builds PC's as a hobby. My son games online with retired people. My neighbours are in their late 80's and are always showing us stuff they've bought from the internet.

Citizens Advice and the local Post Office will help with any concerns regarding benefits. A GP will raise safeguarding concerns and seek help if needed. I appreciate that this doesn't cover absolutely everybody, and there will always be people that sadly fall through the cracks of the system. But that's currently true for working people, children, and disabled people as well. We don't give PIP, housing benefit, and JSA to everyone in the country under retirement age, including millionaires, just in case there are people out there who don't know how to claim do we?

What will likely stop anyone claiming is personal pride. As Winter Fuel payments have never necessitated the need to put a claim in for help if needed, it may be a big step for someone who has never had to rely on benefits to go cap in hand to the state. I fully understand that, but there's a lot of entitlement surrounding this whole debate. Most are likely just sour about it because the gravy train that they've budgeted for is coming to an end. Not every retired person is some quivering ignoramus who is completely unaware of how to use a computer.l